VN Ren'Py Love & Jealousy [Act 3] [Professor Amethyst Games]

[funnythings3785]

Another thought on top of the previous Lacey pondering:


The MC is normal in many things, he is a bit of a recluse (due to Lacey) in college, but he can interact with most people pretty normally.

He is prior to Lacey, the typical inexperienced sexually person with all the basic normal views and understanding of sexual interaction. That is, he views sex between two people under a normal progression. Very wholesome and natural without kink, perversion or complexity.

How do you think a person of this normal position views all the things Lacey did? Would he not see multiple sex encounters of lax nature immoral and wrong? Would he not see multiple partners (threesomes) as wrong or an issue? Would he not see each progression of kink and perversion in the same light? Do not most people of normal nature see such the same?

I would say a lot of the dialogue through the acts affirm his character on this.

So now we have Lacey, who does every abnormal thing you can imagine to levels beyond scope.

How does he view Lacey? I think I remember a fair number of arguments where his comments simply on her behavior were... complete disgust and horror, not simply from the perspective of a "love interest" but that of a simple human being evaluating the actions of another. I think this is also affirmed by some of the reaction from the girls at learning about Lacey's behavior of the past as well as some of the "in front of" revelations they encountered.

So now... has Lacey ever come to terms with her actions on a level that confronts that specifically? Has she viewed herself specifically for that, recognized it, then sought understanding and redemption? Does she view her actual "actions" with the disgust she should as others have viewed it to come to an understanding of what she has done?

Maybe... but through many of her comments, she seems to indicate she has not and I think the Poker game (as well as many other comments here and there) seem to suggest she has not come to those terms. She doesn't seem to see that the actual "actions" she did were wrong, only the circumstances that caused or evolved from them.

If you thought a gangbang as an absolutely horrible action of depravity to not only yourself, but to those around you, would you even consider it as an option? And if so, would you proclaim it as "not a big deal, nothing that would cause you issue", is that the sign of someone who understands what they did? Is that someone who has healed or found growth?

Personally, I would say no, but then... what do I know.

 

[funnythings3785]

"Letting go?"

Maybe, but it would be ignoring the fact that she hasn't come to terms with what she has done. It wouldn't be letting go as much as it would be just accepting her as she is, without her having to deal with what she has done to not only him, but herself.

Not saying you're wrong, but she says repeatedly that sex is just meaningless sex... ...except when it's with the MC, of course. If it's meaningless, why should they care? Or is she lying to herself/us when she says that? (If so, and the sex is meaningful, then how could she not view what she did as betraying the MC?)

If it was meaningless, why did she have that argument then with them? I think DeviantFun brought that up, why make such a big deal if all of it was meaningless. She acted more like a girl hurt because they didn't do more for her after the experience, which then suggests she has some type of connection with her experiences.

Could be nothing, but then I never bought the whole BS of people claiming sex was meaningless. Sure, it may not have been enough to create a strong bond, but it always has meaning, even to some level and even if it is just in the moment. That is where the danger lies and why so many relationships form from people who have continued "meaningless" sex.

 

[apven333]

Why dev cant make hands and fingers look ...proper. Idk, it's not too hard to edit, i use SD myself every day...i mean, the game is great, the plot is amazing, one of the best here, the characters too...but the models would be good to edit, or is it just me who is so picky?

 

[Lady Lydia]

Another thought on top of the previous Lacey pondering:


The MC is normal in many things, he is a bit of a recluse (due to Lacey) in college, but he can interact with most people pretty normally.

He is prior to Lacey, the typical inexperienced sexually person with all the basic normal views and understanding of sexual interaction. That is, he views sex between two people under a normal progression. Very wholesome and natural without kink, perversion or complexity.

How do you think a person of this normal position views all the things Lacey did? Would he not see multiple sex encounters of lax nature immoral and wrong? Would he not see multiple partners (threesomes) as wrong or an issue? Would he not see each progression of kink and perversion in the same light? Do not most people of normal nature see such the same?

I would say a lot of the dialogue through the acts affirm his character on this.

So now we have Lacey, who does every abnormal thing you can imagine to levels beyond scope.

How does he view Lacey? I think I remember a fair number of arguments where his comments simply on her behavior were... complete disgust and horror, not simply from the perspective of a "love interest" but that of a simple human being evaluating the actions of another. I think this is also affirmed by some of the reaction from the girls at learning about Lacey's behavior of the past as well as some of the "in front of" revelations they encountered.

So now... has Lacey ever come to terms with her actions on a level that confronts that specifically? Has she viewed herself specifically for that, recognized it, then sought understanding and redemption? Does she view her actual "actions" with the disgust she should as others have viewed it to come to an understanding of what she has done?

Maybe... but through many of her comments, she seems to indicate she has not and I think the Poker game (as well as many other comments here and there) seem to suggest she has not come to those terms. She doesn't seem to see that the actual "actions" she did were wrong, only the circumstances that caused or evolved from them.

If you thought a gangbang as an absolutely horrible action of depravity to not only yourself, but to those around you, would you even consider it as an option? And if so, would you proclaim it as "not a big deal, nothing that would cause you issue", is that the sign of someone who understands what they did? Is that someone who has healed or found growth?

Personally, I would say no, but then... what do I know.

The problem here is your assumption that monogamy is the absolute relationship and anything else is invalid, their are a growing amount of polycules that exist, polyamorous relationships, what is 'normal' is very subjective, while yes the MC might have perceived things from that could be deemed 'normal' for most of us to begin with, it doesn't mean over the course of the story he isn't being changed by everything that is happening. Also you fail to take into consideration the effect of Lacey's influence over him, if he is told repeatedly that doing certain things are fine, in time he'll come to believe it.

Considering the power Lacey hold over him do you think he wouldn't in time come to accept her claims? That his resistance wouldn't end up eroding away? Ever heard the expression sink or swim? Well the MC had to learn to swim thru Lacey's currents, or sink, he has tried not to go along with the flow completely but he had no choice but to somewhat still follow the flow, as I said earlier its about the necessity of compromise in relationships, obviously he is compromising far more than Lacey, but that fit the character.

Going back to 'normality' did you know prostitution is common in High Schools in Japan? To us here it would be scandalous and horrible, but over there its fairly common for a girl to be paid for sexual activities in High School. Different norms entirely, what many consider here to be absolute norms, aren't by any mean absolute, similarly you had plenty of civilization where polygamy existed and did society crumble under the weight of depradation? No.

For individuals like the MC and Lacey that basically had to some degree self teach very likely much of what could be deemed the norms they had likely a very high degree of capacity for adaptation, in particular for the MC which grew to react to Lacey's issues perpetually. Likely the MC only learned 'normality' in College, while Lacey didn't even because she went crazy wild instead. If the MC only learned 'normality' as an adult its potentially far less ingrained than it would be in most of us. Which might be the source of much of Lacey's issues, her normal is likely what she developt in College, we know what happen in College, so it mean to her fucking around and such is normal, which is why she doesn't see the issue with having sexual activities with other people as problematic, because its her normality.

Sure likely after marrying the MC she had to learn to take some notion of what he deemed normality, but just like it would be quite particular for any of us Western folks to be marrying an Indian, well it doesn't mean she lost her sense of her normal, merely that she had to reign it in for the MC, and thru drugs, alcohol, personality issues, etc she is struggling with upholding that normal the MC imparted upon her, and she has been trying instead to teach him her normal.

 

[Lady Lydia]

Why dev cant make hands and fingers look ...proper. Idk, it's not too hard to edit, i use SD myself every day...i mean, the game is great, the plot is amazing, one of the best here, the characters too...but the models would be good to edit, or is it just me who is so picky?

Well considering the Dev is using AI CG images its very likely it come down to a choice, do they care more for proper looking hands and fingers, or the face? I'd say the face is the priority, you want that to be as much as humanly consistent as possible, the digits are of secondary concerns, Those AI aren't doing miracles yet, properly prompting them is Hell. Also I'll be frank I think most of us aren't looking really all that hard at the hands.

 

[radical686]

So you are saying anger can not drive a person to push an action they did not initially intend or want?

Sigh. A statement that says nothing. You give all of the agency to the women, and act like the MC in this case has no power. I guess it makes it easier for you to hate Lacey for whatever reason.

I personally found what she DID on Girl's day to be far more problematic than what she SAID at the poker game.

That said, it's apparent you're arguing for the sake of arguing. So, I'm gonna ignore you from now on.

 

[radical686]

I'm confused by this. On my playthrough, the reader watched the MC pause over the attachment in the email then right-click and delete without opening it. Unless you're saying that what we saw in that part of the story didn't really happen then I don't understand what you said. And if that is the case, then I no longer have any idea what happened in any part of the story because I now have to question whether anything the reader saw truly happened. That merry-go-round doesn't stop.

I'm not saying you're wrong; I'm saying if that's how the dev is writing the story then how can the reader believe anything he wrote? The hallucinations at the end of Act 3 are pretty clearly shown to be hallucinations so I don't question that part. I do wonder what triggered them to occur at that moment, though; I missed the trigger unless this was just a cumulative thing that drove him to break(?)

Good question.

I think the earlier disassociative (DA) break where he ended up in the bad part of town was a foreshadowing. Establishing how he percieves things when he has a DA break. He didn't remember going to the bad part of town, and he didn't break out of the DA break until he got back to the park . . . a familiar and safe location for him mentally. The Dev showed us what he did even tho he had no recollection of his actions.

The girls gave us a clue what was likely in the video with the conversation with Jeanette. I'm guessing it looked like she had an orgasmic or euphoric expression on her face, which could have/ IMHO would have triggered him--based mostly on how he's rationalized himself as inadequate whenever he sees her enjoying herself in ways he could not provide her. Furthermore, every time there has been a video or an image where the MC was not able to "choose" whether to view the image or video, the MC has opened it up and/or watched it . . . every time.

I think the Dev wrote the last scene showing only what his dissasociative personality remembers. Notice that we never saw how Lacey was actually dressed until after he left (And Mia was with her).

I agree with you that DA breaks are usually triggered, and there did not appear to be a trigger leading up to his DA break. You and I agree on that as well. They tend not to happen without a trigger. Which is why I came up with the theory that he actually watched the video, but thinks he deleted it. But, that memory is actually part of the DA break.

If I'm right, the Dev will show us what really happened in Act 4. It would be a clever plot twist.

Does that mean it happened that way? Maybe, maybe not. I don't know. I'm guessing and extrapolating based on what I believe fits a DA break. That said, the Dev could write something completely different, and I may be entirely wrong. If I am wrong, it would be nice for the Dev to show us or explain what did cause the DA break.

 

[Lady Lydia]

Good question.

I think the earlier disassociative (DA) break where he ended up in the bad part of town was a foreshadowing. Establishing how he percieves things when he has a DA break. He didn't remember going to the bad part of town, and he didn't break out of the DA break until he got back to the park . . . a familiar and safe location for him mentally. The Dev showed us what he did even tho he had no recollection of his actions.

The girls gave us a clue what was likely in the video with the conversation with Jeanette. I'm guessing it looked like she had an orgasmic or euphoric expression on her face, which could have/ IMHO would have triggered him--based mostly on how he's rationalized himself as inadequate whenever he sees her enjoying herself in ways he could not provide her. Furthermore, every time there has been a video or an image where the MC was not able to "choose" whether to view the image or video, the MC has opened it up and/or watched it . . . every time.

I think the Dev wrote the last scene showing only what his dissasociative personality remembers. Notice that we never saw how Lacey was actually dressed until after he left (And Mia was with her).

I agree with you that DA breaks are usually triggered, and there did not appear to be a trigger leading up to his DA break. You and I agree on that as well. They tend not to happen without a trigger. Which is why I came up with the theory that he actually watched the video, but thinks he deleted it. But, that memory is actually part of the DA break.

If I'm right, the Dev will show us what really happened in Act 4. It would be a clever plot twist.

Does that mean it happened that way? Maybe, maybe not. I don't know. I'm guessing and extrapolating based on what I believe fits a DA break. That said, the Dev could write something completely different, and I may be entirely wrong. If I am wrong, it would be nice for the Dev to show us or explain what did cause the DA break.

Huh... the way I remember things didn't Lacey and Mia came in after the MC was gone and Lacey figured he wasn't around and got worried? I mean the MC literally saw the hallucination, than gathered his stuff and fucked off, if Lacey & Mia had been there wouldn't one of them have came in physical contact and figuring he was out of it and snap him out?

I mean would the BDSM session have been bad enough to cause him a mental breakdown watching the video? After everything else? I mean sure it sounded like it was cringe, rather than really super sexy, admittedly still of questionable enough nature to cause the girls to shy out of wanting the MC to see it. Did Lacey make a ahegao face and that was bad enough for him to breakdown? After the entire Vegas vacation and a few therapy sessions you'd expect if he had to snap it would have happened in Vegas after the girl's day, not a while later after getting therapy a few times.

 

[JarrenBlake]

Just finished all three acts and I really enjoyed the story of this game. Great work! I see a number of really long posts here, critical of the characters and actions. Shows that the story is hitting home. I enjoyed the main couple, their dynamic and dysfunction are really well realized. Keep up the great work.

 

[Lady Lydia]

I think everyone playing this game really need to play another game by the Prof, On the Mountain Top, that game has a character with a co-dependency issue, along with other issues, plus the MC has issues, plus many of the side characters have issues, and I feel this game doesn't really convey the reality of mental issues as good as OtMT does, it does a far better job explaining things, trying to impart upon the players the reality of those issues.

Which I'll say make it again perplexing, the quality of the characterization for that game is so much better than this one, the narrative feels like it flows more naturally, its incredible the degree of difference between this game and that game, which is I feel something Augusta similarly does much better than this game.

I feel this game does drama by the ton and let the drama override the characterization and narrative, and when it come to the psychological aspects of the characters it just drum you with its issues. OtMP take some similar mental issues and make them feel more real, their is drama but drama doesn't drive the characterization and narrative, it flows from the characters and narrative.

Its a shame the Prof put it on the back burner because they were getting too stressed and the amount of efforts and stress required to make this and Augusta being far lesser caused it to be benched, a real shame because I feel that story is likely far more interesting than this one.

 

[AL.d]

The problem here is your assumption that monogamy is the absolute relationship and anything else is invalid, their are a growing amount of polycules that exist, polyamorous relationships, what is 'normal' is very subjective, while yes the MC might have perceived things from that could be deemed 'normal' for most of us to begin with, it doesn't mean over the course of the story he isn't being changed by everything that is happening. Also you fail to take into consideration the effect of Lacey's influence over him, if he is told repeatedly that doing certain things are fine, in time he'll come to believe it.

Considering the power Lacey hold over him do you think he wouldn't in time come to accept her claims? That his resistance wouldn't end up eroding away? Ever heard the expression sink or swim? Well the MC had to learn to swim thru Lacey's currents, or sink, he has tried not to go along with the flow completely but he had no choice but to somewhat still follow the flow, as I said earlier its about the necessity of compromise in relationships, obviously he is compromising far more than Lacey, but that fit the character.

Going back to 'normality' did you know prostitution is common in High Schools in Japan? To us here it would be scandalous and horrible, but over there its fairly common for a girl to be paid for sexual activities in High School. Different norms entirely, what many consider here to be absolute norms, aren't by any mean absolute, similarly you had plenty of civilization where polygamy existed and did society crumble under the weight of depradation? No.

For individuals like the MC and Lacey that basically had to some degree self teach very likely much of what could be deemed the norms they had likely a very high degree of capacity for adaptation, in particular for the MC which grew to react to Lacey's issues perpetually. Likely the MC only learned 'normality' in College, while Lacey didn't even because she went crazy wild instead. If the MC only learned 'normality' as an adult its potentially far less ingrained than it would be in most of us. Which might be the source of much of Lacey's issues, her normal is likely what she developt in College, we know what happen in College, so it mean to her fucking around and such is normal, which is why she doesn't see the issue with having sexual activities with other people as problematic, because its her normality.

Sure likely after marrying the MC she had to learn to take some notion of what he deemed normality, but just like it would be quite particular for any of us Western folks to be marrying an Indian, well it doesn't mean she lost her sense of her normal, merely that she had to reign it in for the MC, and thru drugs, alcohol, personality issues, etc she is struggling with upholding that normal the MC imparted upon her, and she has been trying instead to teach him her normal.

The post you replied isn't referring to what any of us might think of monogamy and polygamy, which is irrelevant. It is referring to MC's well documented relationship values in the game. His position. That it might align with what most of us consider normal, is irrelevant in the context of the game. His relationship views are diametrically opposed to Lacey's. If that wasn't the case, there would be no need to hatch an elaborate plan to "reprogram" him. And by the way, relationship values are imprinted far earlier than college. The fact he was a virgin, didn't mean he didn't have them. Same applies for Lacey, her approach to sexuality and relationships has its roots far earlier and the cause is obvious, college was just the catalyst.

I think your post minimizes what's happening to MC in a disturbing way, while the game is very clear in portraying how ugly it is in all its glory. There is no "necessary relationship compromise" happening here. No "benevolent corruption", opening his horizons to the beautiful world of fucking around, in a relationship between equal parties. It's toxic and abusive manipulation (and often outright forced), of a person who literally can't say no to anything. His relationship views are so opposed to what is happening to him, that this forced re-alignment by his dear wife, is causing him frequent mental breakdowns. This has been shown multiple times in the game. It's blatant abuse, plain and simple.