Need feedback on artstyle

Catapo

Member
Jun 14, 2018
232
430
Lately I had more free time and I decided that I should try to make my own game like many others.
I am confident in my programming but I have zero artistic skills so I spent the last few days trying to come up with something and this is the result.
After many failed attempts I am somewhat happy with it but I would like some honest feedback from others.

Just a few notes:
- I am aiming for a cartoon-ish artstyle not a realistic one.
- I will not use Daz3D but I appreciate your suggestions anyway.
- The penis and semen were made quickly so they turned out pretty bad but those should not be the focus for now

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fitgirlbestgirl

Well-Known Member
Jul 27, 2017
1,140
4,277
It's not terrible, but it's not an art style that appeals to me at all.

I would knock down the brightness or change her skin tone or something, it kind of looks like she's standing under flood lights with how much light her skin seems to reflect.

Also her proportions are kind of wacky, but maybe that's intentional. Like, her torso and hips are kind of normal, but then she has these little stick arms and legs.
 

Catapo

Member
Jun 14, 2018
232
430
really well done!(y) looks unique. i like it ;)
Thank you I appreciate it.

Which software is rendering like that? It looks more funny than sexual.
It is Blender but my only experience with it is making silly stuff not realistic so that's why it is like this. I have to figure out how to make it more sexually appealing.

It's not terrible, but it's not an art style that appeals to me at all.

I would knock down the brightness or change her skin tone or something, it kind of looks like she's standing under flood lights with how much light her skin seems to reflect.

Also her proportions are kind of wacky, but maybe that's intentional. Like, her torso and hips are kind of normal, but then she has these little stick arms and legs.
Thank you for the feedback. It is pretty late here but I decided to go back and make some adjustments.
I will work more on it starting tomorrow but here is another one for now

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Saki_Sliz

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May 3, 2018
1,403
995
Very cool!
ok, so here are some things. I have been doing the same thing you have been doing, but I have been doing it for about 2 almost 3 years now, so I'll give you some heads up.

1st, the uncanny valley, if you have not heard of it before, it is referring to the effect of how robots, as they improve, start to look more and more like humans, their is a point when robots look almost human, but are not quite there yet. Infact, they start to look disturbing. The idea is that, they look human enough to trick our brains, but our brains are also program to identify anything that looks wrong incase there may be something wrong with the person we are looking at. Here is how I think the property can be applied to art. The more realistic you try to be, the less room you have for error, the easier it is for your work to look bad. This leads to another issue, often, to fix the issue, you basically have to correct something in a manner that involves making the mistake look realistic. The issue with this is now your work is even more realistic, so you have even less room for error, then something else will look off, so new issues show up that weren't an issue before. its like making your bed and puting on a new sheet, but every time you slip the last corner on, another comes off. So what my point is, you will need to at some point say to yourself, this is good enough, you will need to set some things to be restrictions on what you will and will not change or try to improve on if you ever want to complete something.

2, not sure if this will really help you since you can just ignore it if you want, but head ratio. If you haven't heard about it yet, just do a quick google image search. Now I wouldn't say copy what you see in those images, since playing around with proportion ratios is always good fun and interesting, but one thing you may want to play with is the character's final height. from what I can tell, over the past 8 or 12 year, the anime and cartoon industry, as well as the art community seems to have settle on a 7.5 head height as the ideal ratio for how tall a drawn character should look, and it works for 3D as well. note this is for the idealized body, not a realistic body. Ofter, however, this rule needs to be broken, to show off a characters age or just exaggerate their body type.

3 it looks like you have an understanding of color theory a bit, at least with the shading, so I won't comment on that, but I will mention, it looks like you are using something like an emittion node with colors being controlled by maybe a normal vector node or/and a frensel layer weight node. I too have tried this, and I think it is fine for the most part, I still use them to add effects to characters or the enhance them beyond a bland texture, but I never did settle for this style. I don't know why, if it didn't meet my expectations, if it couldn't adapt to lighting well, or if I just couldn't commit. I am currently working on emulating the disney style, and I fine that with good lighting techniques, while it takes more time, can achieve the same thing, if not better. that is, if you like the disney still, your style still works better if you want to capture that anime feeling. Oh, now I remember why I didn't stick with it. Because in drawn art, to make a point clear, you have to simplify and exaggerate, and that even includes lighting, that means adding shadows where they shouldn't show up, and light where there shouldn't be light, and often, some effects look good but were just the results of an artist cutting corners in order to push out enough frames to get their quota for that day. There is a lot of junk when it comes to how anime is lit and 2D drawn techniques, and the mathmatical perfection of 3D kinda mess that up, which is why I gave up on the technique you are using. idk, guess I was just going to warn you about it. Oh no, never mind, I was trying to give you the advice that, if you should play with lights, learn how to adjust their size and the power of making lights harder or softer to replicate the animated effects you want.

4 if you want to make your art feel more 2D, there are some things to do and not to do, avoid front (isometric) and side (isometric) views. Not that isometric is bad, it can work with some models a lot of the time, (I even use perspective lenses as large as an 85mm for things like a face shot, but I keep 55mm as my low point unless I am in tight spots) but it seems that with front and side shots, you are giving users too much information about your models, enough that their brains can subconsciously criticize your works. I would say, for angle shots, if the idea is that the character is turned away from the camera, but you are still looking at them, it is fine to adjust the head so that it looks better, angled up to be level with the camera and turned and maybe even tilted to or away from the camera to indicate if we are looking at them, or if they are looking at something else. if you are going to move the eyes, I have given up on an ik rig for them, it often looks better if you adjust each to match how eyes are often drawn in anime (from different angles) because when it's realistic vs stylized, this is one of the cases where the eyes seem to make more sense to our weak brains when the eyes are moved to a more stylized position rather than a realistic one (which is another thing to try and balance and why this stuff is a pain to do).

if you actually managed to read that wall of barf, thanks perhaps it will save you a month or more of frustration.
oh, maybe one last thing, it seems like (for me) eyes always look better just to have a little bit of an outline on them (black), so that may something you want to play with (but does not work well with the anime style so I gave up on it, but you could try). Best of luck!
 
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Catapo

Member
Jun 14, 2018
232
430
Very cool!
ok, so here are some things. I have been doing the same thing you have been doing, but I have been doing it for about 2 almost 3 years now, so I'll give you some heads up.

1st, the uncanny valley, if you have not heard of it before, it is referring to the effect of how robots, as they improve, start to look more and more like humans, their is a point when robots look almost human, but are not quite there yet. Infact, they start to look disturbing. The idea is that, they look human enough to trick our brains, but our brains are also program to identify anything that looks wrong incase there may be something wrong with the person we are looking at. Here is how I think the property can be applied to art. The more realistic you try to be, the less room you have for error, the easier it is for your work to look bad. This leads to another issue, often, to fix the issue, you basically have to correct something in a manner that involves making the mistake look realistic. The issue with this is now your work is even more realistic, so you have even less room for error, then something else will look off, so new issues show up that weren't an issue before. its like making your bed and puting on a new sheet, but every time you slip the last corner on, another comes off. So what my point is, you will need to at some point say to yourself, this is good enough, you will need to set some things to be restrictions on what you will and will not change or try to improve on if you ever want to complete something.

2, not sure if this will really help you since you can just ignore it if you want, but head ratio. If you haven't heard about it yet, just do a quick google image search. Now I wouldn't say copy what you see in those images, since playing around with proportion ratios is always good fun and interesting, but one thing you may want to play with is the character's final height. from what I can tell, over the past 8 or 12 year, the anime and cartoon industry, as well as the art community seems to have settle on a 7.5 head height as the ideal ratio for how tall a drawn character should look, and it works for 3D as well. note this is for the idealized body, not a realistic body. Ofter, however, this rule needs to be broken, to show off a characters age or just exaggerate their body type.

3 it looks like you have an understanding of color theory a bit, at least with the shading, so I won't comment on that, but I will mention, it looks like you are using something like an emittion node with colors being controlled by maybe a normal vector node or/and a frensel layer weight node. I too have tried this, and I think it is fine for the most part, I still use them to add effects to characters or the enhance them beyond a bland texture, but I never did settle for this style. I don't know why, if it didn't meet my expectations, if it couldn't adapt to lighting well, or if I just couldn't commit. I am currently working on emulating the disney style, and I fine that with good lighting techniques, while it takes more time, can achieve the same thing, if not better. that is, if you like the disney still, your style still works better if you want to capture that anime feeling. Oh, now I remember why I didn't stick with it. Because in drawn art, to make a point clear, you have to simplify and exaggerate, and that even includes lighting, that means adding shadows where they shouldn't show up, and light where there shouldn't be light, and often, some effects look good but were just the results of an artist cutting corners in order to push out enough frames to get their quota for that day. There is a lot of junk when it comes to how anime is lit and 2D drawn techniques, and the mathmatical perfection of 3D kinda mess that up, which is why I gave up on the technique you are using. idk, guess I was just going to warn you about it. Oh no, never mind, I was trying to give you the advice that, if you should play with lights, learn how to adjust their size and the power of making lights harder or softer to replicate the animated effects you want.

4 if you want to make your art feel more 2D, there are some things to do and not to do, avoid front (isometric) and side (isometric) views. Not that isometric is bad, it can work with some models a lot of the time, (I even use perspective lenses as large as an 85mm for things like a face shot, but I keep 55mm as my low point unless I am in tight spots) but it seems that with front and side shots, you are giving users too much information about your models, enough that their brains can subconsciously criticize your works. I would say, for angle shots, if the idea is that the character is turned away from the camera, but you are still looking at them, it is fine to adjust the head so that it looks better, angled up to be level with the camera and turned and maybe even tilted to or away from the camera to indicate if we are looking at them, or if they are looking at something else. if you are going to move the eyes, I have given up on an ik rig for them, it often looks better if you adjust each to match how eyes are often drawn in anime (from different angles) because when it's realistic vs stylized, this is one of the cases where the eyes seem to make more sense to our weak brains when the eyes are moved to a more stylized position rather than a realistic one (which is another thing to try and balance and why this stuff is a pain to do).

if you actually managed to read that wall of barf, thanks perhaps it will save you a month or more of frustration.
oh, maybe one last thing, it seems like (for me) eyes always look better just to have a little bit of an outline on them (black), so that may something you want to play with (but does not work well with the anime style so I gave up on it, but you could try). Best of luck!
Thank you for the "wall of barf" and all of the great tips inside so here's another one :D

1. I knew about the uncanny valley so you could've just linked to the wiki instead of writing all of that but I appreaciate it.
I'm still experimenting trying to find my own style but I'm aiming for the left side of the valley to non realistic stuff.

2. For the character above I've used a reference sheet I got online but after a while I continued without it so I might have not respected some things. Normally I would trust art references to follow these art rules.

3. I don't know a lot about color theory just some things I picked up watching online tutorials that stuck with me (I think I learned from BlenderGuru's videos on YT).

As for the nodes I'm embarassed to admit that I did none of the things you said. Everything was made in Blender Internal without nodes or textures just color. I'm not using 2.8, not using Cycles even in terms of modelling I'm box modelling instead of sculpting.

From what I've read on the Blenderartists forum some say that Cycles is meant for photorealistic stuff and BI is enough for non-photorealistic and I've seen some interesting results there so that's why.

One downside is I can't find some tutorial or some reading materials about lighting in Blender Internal. Everything is only for Cycles so my lighting sucks.

Most likely I'm not gonna settle on this style either. Lately I've been messing with more flat colors and Freestyle going for a more "anime" style and I think I like it more. I will start looking into nodes since I'm looking up to Daniel Kreuter's style and he has some interesting results using some normal manipulation nodes.

4. Stuff about Camera and Lens settings didn't even cross my mind so I guess I should start looking into that immediately. I assume that is something related to photography and not modelling.
For the eyes since I don't plan on animating them I'm not using an IK rig I think shape keys are more than enough and just manually move the irises since they are separate objects.

Honestly I would rather spend time hunting bugs in huge chunks of code but at the same time I'm too stubborn to work with someone else.
Anyway thanks again for all your tips and I hope that I can show other results soon.