VN Need the help of writers and readers alike. Topic: Pure dialogue vs. Narrative/dialogue story telling

[zeexthree]

is it necessary to have pure dialogue within visual novels or is it ok to include a paragraphs of inner monologue/thought between dialogue? Feels kind of clunky to me to include all the narrative considering the vns I’ve played so far, but I am not sure how to further immerse the reader without super heavy animation.

I feel as if the Mc’s narration gives the reader a sense of his current inner workings and feels more intimate especially after making their choices…. And on the other hand I feel like it may not be appealing to readers to have to click through walls of text at times Bc maybe they just won’t care and prefer to keep it simple with lots more action. (I am planning to make this a sandbox game with lots of mini games/side quests thanks to a few source codes I found, but the main story arc is pretty long at the center
with 3 possible endings)

or if there’s a better way at portraying enough without heavy narrative? The choices I have laid out so far are few (and have huge impact), but would adding more meaningful choices balance it out and maintain interest?

the story isn’t boring or anything, it is just a new outlet of creativity for me and I am not very familiar with how the community might feel about it.

 

[NoxAeternae]

It's not really possible to say that one or the other is the correct way. It depends on a lot of factors. The kind of game you are making, the kind of story you are telling, your target audience and a myriad other things would and should affect the style you choose.

There are very popular and/or good games on this site that have a lot of text as well as games that have only dialogue. I've written both kinds to a degree and I can say for a fact that the style of one game wouldn't work for the other. So, I think what you need to do is to ask yourself what would be the best for the type of game you want to make.

 

[Mimir's Lab]

I think you need to clarify what you mean by your introductory paragraph because the conversation on whether there should be internal monologue or only verbal dialogue, or whether there should be narrative related stuff like "Mary looks at you perplexed. She grabs her keys and slams the door on her way out." are two different conversations to be had.

 

[Doorknob22]

It's totally legit to include inner dialog and/or thought. As an example, here are literally the first sentences in my own game.

show prison_miss_floor_1 at top

show screen mfForestAutoMap

"You miss floors. Real floors."

show prison_miss_floor_2 at top

"You wouldn’t mind a nice, thick rug, of course."

show prison_miss_floor_3 at top

"And a pair of long legs standing on it, with a nice juicy cunt between them."

show prison_laying_on_floor at top

"But You don’t need a rug, just a floor."

"Your cell doesn’t have a floor, just dirt and a stone bunk. Bucket for your urine and feces."

 

[zeexthree]

It's not really possible to say that one or the other is the correct way. It depends on a lot of factors. The kind of game you are making, the kind of story you are telling, your target audience and a myriad other things would and should affect the style you choose.

There are very popular and/or good games on this site that have a lot of text as well as games that have only dialogue. I've written both kinds to a degree and I can say for a fact that the style of one game wouldn't work for the other. So, I think what you need to do is to ask yourself what would be the best for the type of game you want to make.

that is the tricky part. It could be well received, but on the other hand it could go terribly wrong. Html games are one thing and VNs are another so it’s hard to tell where the balance is (mostly my own insecurity, but I have doubts).

you are right though,there are pretty popular vns (one I’ve played so far is deliverance), which was mostly text. Pretty solid vn although unfinished. I’ll try to gamble on it

 

[zeexthree]

I think you need to clarify what you mean by your introductory paragraph because the conversation on whether there should be internal monologue or only verbal dialogue, or whether there should be narrative related stuff like "Mary looks at you perplexed. She grabs her keys and slams the door on her way out." are two different conversations to be had.

that is a good point. In this case I would exclude most visual descriptions and leave those to renders. I plan on having facial expressions for each character to express basic emotions.
The more intricate animations that are non sexual such as “she grabs her keys and slams the door on her way out” will be left to a pure text description. In the VN I’d be making the scene will go as follows:

>mc reacts to choice

- Display Mary’s sprite img

Mc: “Was what I said that strange?”

She grabs her keys and slams the door on her way out

-Mary leaves screen

The narrative will mostly be mc’s thoughts and descriptives of things that are a pain/not worth animating for someone working solo that has 0 experience animating/coding.

 

[zeexthree]

It's totally legit to include inner dialog and/or thought. As an example, here are literally the first sentences in my own game.

show prison_miss_floor_1 at top

show screen mfForestAutoMap

"You miss floors. Real floors."

show prison_miss_floor_2 at top

"You wouldn’t mind a nice, thick rug, of course."

show prison_miss_floor_3 at top

"And a pair of long legs standing on it, with a nice juicy cunt between them."

show prison_laying_on_floor at top

"But You don’t need a rug, just a floor."

"Your cell doesn’t have a floor, just dirt and a stone bunk. Bucket for your urine and feces."

this is

It's totally legit to include inner dialog and/or thought. As an example, here are literally the first sentences in my own game.

show prison_miss_floor_1 at top

show screen mfForestAutoMap

"You miss floors. Real floors."

show prison_miss_floor_2 at top

"You wouldn’t mind a nice, thick rug, of course."

show prison_miss_floor_3 at top

"And a pair of long legs standing on it, with a nice juicy cunt between them."

show prison_laying_on_floor at top

"But You don’t need a rug, just a floor."

"Your cell doesn’t have a floor, just dirt and a stone bunk. Bucket for your urine and feces."

This is what I mean, yes. Seeing this has me conflicted though. I initially wrote the story as an actual novel written in a first person perspective, but using a third person perspective seems more immersive. Albeit will be in a third person limited, but saying “you” instead of “I” does have an impact. I already started rewriting to have choice options and different endings. Would it be worth rewriting again to include the third person perspective?

If you don’t mind I’m gonna check out a few of your games. Vae Victis looks good I will check it out… really respect the realism you incorporate to the human body in your renders btw. Which of your games would you recommend that has narratives like this though? kinks don’t matter and neither does the sexual orientation, I just want to see how you execute it.

 

[TacoHoleStory]

is it necessary to have pure dialogue within visual novels or is it ok to include a paragraphs of inner monologue/thought between dialogue? Feels kind of clunky to me to include all the narrative considering the vns I’ve played so far, but I am not sure how to further immerse the reader without super heavy animation.

I feel as if the Mc’s narration gives the reader a sense of his current inner workings and feels more intimate especially after making their choices…. And on the other hand I feel like it may not be appealing to readers to have to click through walls of text at times Bc maybe they just won’t care and prefer to keep it simple with lots more action. (I am planning to make this a sandbox game with lots of mini games/side quests thanks to a few source codes I found, but the main story arc is pretty long at the center
with 3 possible endings)

or if there’s a better way at portraying enough without heavy narrative? The choices I have laid out so far are few (and have huge impact), but would adding more meaningful choices balance it out and maintain interest?

the story isn’t boring or anything, it is just a new outlet of creativity for me and I am not very familiar with how the community might feel about it.

Show don't tell. Where it isn't possible to show you should also be showing through contextual clues rather than directly saying it like a robot. "This is Sarah's house" VS "I can't believe Sarah inherited this place, she's so lucky." Only include things that matter. If it doesn't matter that the MC is in Sarah's house you don't need to mention it. If your character is constantly monologuing about the story in their head, then they'll seem fake. Anything that draws the persons attention away from the story and makes them go "oh, this is the game creator explaining the story/world/character to me" is a terrible idea.

I can't imagine a single situation where paragraphs of inner dialogue could enhance a story. I can think of one example of this in television, and it happened once per season and was done in a very clever way so the person watching would enjoy it.

Be aware that every time you are showing inner dialogue, you've basically hit the pause button on your story and nothing is happening, so make sure it's important.

 

[zeexthree]

Show don't tell. Where it isn't possible to show you should also be showing through contextual clues rather than directly saying it like a robot. "This is Sarah's house" VS "I can't believe Sarah inherited this place, she's so lucky." Only include things that matter. If it doesn't matter that the MC is in Sarah's house you don't need to mention it. If your character is constantly monologuing about the story in their head, then they'll seem fake. Anything that draws the persons attention away from the story and makes them go "oh, this is the game creator explaining the story/world/character to me" is a terrible idea.

I can't imagine a single situation where paragraphs of inner dialogue could enhance a story. I can think of one example of this in television, and it happened once per season and was done in a very clever way so the person watching would enjoy it.

Be aware that every time you are showing inner dialogue, you've basically hit the pause button on your story and nothing is happening, so make sure it's important.

even in normal novels I write I always show and never tell, that is 100% true. I’m not a fan of that kind of writing either tbh even though it is common in a lot of adult vns I’ve seen so far.

the inner monologue is the Mc’s feelings/thought process. In the later part of the story it will be hints at the choices the player had Made prior to show the character development in personality. I plan on having a “morality” system, but it won’t be black and white or portrayed in numbers on the screen. It will just be based on the choices.

When you said it is putting a pause on the story and nothing happened that is a big eye opener though. Some of the monologue is too long I have to admit. I will have to try and find some sort of way to shorten it a great deal.

writing a VN is harder than expected. The initial novel I have written is becoming something totally different than what it was. It’s honestly super challenging, but incredibly fun. I wanted to try doing a VN in hopes to learn coding and such, but it seems I am also learning how to write all over again.

 

[Doorknob22]

If you don’t mind I’m gonna check out a few of your games. Vae Victis looks good I will check it out… really respect the realism you incorporate to the human body in your renders btw. Which of your games would you recommend that has narratives like this though? kinks don’t matter and neither does the sexual orientation, I just want to see how you execute it.

Thanks for the compliments! Vae Victis - Khan is my first game but I've been writing porn for 25 years so obviously narrative is my strong side

Feel free to reach me on Discord for some writing advice.

 

[NoxAeternae]

that is the tricky part. It could be well received, but on the other hand it could go terribly wrong. Html games are one thing and VNs are another so it’s hard to tell where the balance is (mostly my own insecurity, but I have doubts).

you are right though,there are pretty popular vns (one I’ve played so far is deliverance), which was mostly text. Pretty solid vn although unfinished. I’ll try to gamble on it

Html games are an obvious example yes. But as you've said yourself, there are really good VNs with a lot of text as well. Some that I particularly enjoyed are: Harem Hotel, Rise of the White Flower and games in that vein. I think the main way games like that go horribly if the story wastes the players time. As long as you deliver good pay-offs for time spent, the worse you'll do is decent.

I usually write my stories in either third or first person but for a story I'm currently writing, I decided to go with second person which is kind of unusual. But I think it fits the narrative I'm going for and fits the game as well. So again, no right or wrong only what is right for the story/game.

 

[Mimir's Lab]

even in normal novels I write I always show and never tell, that is 100% true. I’m not a fan of that kind of writing either tbh even though it is common in a lot of adult vns I’ve seen so far.

the inner monologue is the Mc’s feelings/thought process. In the later part of the story it will be hints at the choices the player had Made prior to show the character development in personality. I plan on having a “morality” system, but it won’t be black and white or portrayed in numbers on the screen. It will just be based on the choices.

When you said it is putting a pause on the story and nothing happened that is a big eye opener though. Some of the monologue is too long I have to admit. I will have to try and find some sort of way to shorten it a great deal.

I am a huge proponent of "show, don't tell" and am actually for going the pure dialogue route in most cases especially in the VN format, which I think is more similar to movies and TV shows than books. That being said, I'll tell you where I think internal monologue can work.

One place I wasn't aware that internal monologue can work is in sex scenes. Some people really enjoy when they can see the thoughts of the girl being fucked, especially if it conflicts with what the girl says or expresses physically. Imagine a guy fucking a girl who acts hard and tough on the outside but her inner thoughts shows how likes being submissive. Now, you can say that there are better ways you can show that without resorting to inner monologue, such as the subtle lip bites when the guy does anything remotely dominant, curling of the toes, rolling of the eyes, etc. But I'd argue that our audience (men), when in a heighted state of arousal, tend to overlook subtle details like that and they end up unappreciated and unnoticed. In cases of sex, I think it does benefit from being a little direct and to the point and internal monologue achieves just that.

Internal monologue works if it's the style of narration you're going for in your story, but even then, you still have to follow the conventions of what makes good, interesting dialogue. This means internal dialogue that is purposeful and reveals character and plot in a subtle way without being exposition or outright telling the audience what is going on. I think it can work well if you use internal monologue to present an idea or personal statement of the character who's head we're in to the audience that you will challenge with what happens in the scene. In a way you can sorta direct the audience's attention to an abstract concept and/or add more subtext to a scene.

For example, you can start a scene with the narrator saying, "Love is boring." then show multiple scenes back to back of the protagonist fucking multiple girls in sequence, starting off with exciting sex and ending with routine boring sex where the guy gets more excited from a soccer match than the girl giving him a blowjob. At first glance you might think nothing is lost from the exclusion of the phrase "Love is boring", after all, can't you present the same information without it? But the thing is, with the phrase added, it becomes much more impactful from the stark contrast of the phrase and the start of the scene. There's also an extra layer of depth that's added that isn't present in the version without it. If we start with "Love is boring" then continue to show multiple sex scenes in sequence, with the protagonist getting less and less excited for sex, we can see that his idea of love is just primal lust. This internal monologue becomes extremely impactful later on when the protagonist starts to fall in love with the female protagonist and realize that love is anything but boring.

 

[TacoHoleStory]

Some people really enjoy when they can see the thoughts of the girl being fucked, especially if it conflicts with what the girl says or expresses physically. Imagine a guy fucking a girl who acts hard and tough on the outside but her inner thoughts shows how likes being submissive.

I've never seen this done well. It's usually over exaggerated or so on the nose and unrealistic to the point of making me cringe and bringing me completely out of the moment.

Now, you can say that there are better ways you can show that without resorting to inner monologue, such as the subtle lip bites when the guy does anything remotely dominant, curling of the toes, rolling of the eyes, etc. But I'd argue that our audience (men), when in a heighted state of arousal, tend to overlook subtle details like that and they end up unappreciated and unnoticed.

Completely disagree. Even people that don't notice these details on a conscious level, they notice it subconsciously. Little details like this is what makes a game.