I mean to be fair, there is an audio cue every time you increase relationship, even if you don't pick the "best" option, as long as you hear the heartbeat sound, you know you're at least making progress.
- Thread starter TwistedScarlett60
- Start date
Huh, fair enough, I didn't know that since I split my points between wit and cunning in that first scene, so I just barely missed it because I favored Cunning more by a point, since I didn't know when esper would be available, and it was very clear the main character was more geared towards already being proficient in alchemy.
jokuur
Well-Known Member
- May 23, 2019
- 1,341
- 1,524
- 348
will there be goat with big belly now? will we see mommy goat?
Last edited:
Another note: It'd probably be a good idea to find some way of linking the selling of main abilities to the selling of any active side-grades. As it's possible to buy, for example, smoke bomb, then buy "smoke bomb A" which requires smoke bomb, then sell the original "Smoke Bomb" and still have "Smoke Bomb A" active in the skill tree, taking up MAG, and just not be visible.
I don't know if the side grade will still 100% function in combat with the main ability not purchased since I haven't tested and it's a new day, I just booted up the game and noticed this, and it's kind of a small oversight, it doesn't "break" anything per se, at least not in a major way, but it is kind of inconvenient because if you forget, you can very easily lose track of your side-grades purchased and not even realize you have potentially unused skills just sitting around.
Edit: Okay, a quick test, yeah, the main function of skills is properly tied to having the main ability unlocked, so having the "Smoke Bomb A" side grade unlocked in the prior example doesn't actually let you use smoke bomb by itself, but the way things disappear in the upgrade menu DOES still act as a bit of oversight, since someone may make the assumption selling the core skill would also sell the A or B version since they visibly disappear from the skill tree, but yeah, the side grades are still there, still giving stat bonuses and such-
They just don't actually function in combat without the main skill, and you still can't see them without the main skill active.
I don't know if the side grade will still 100% function in combat with the main ability not purchased since I haven't tested and it's a new day, I just booted up the game and noticed this, and it's kind of a small oversight, it doesn't "break" anything per se, at least not in a major way, but it is kind of inconvenient because if you forget, you can very easily lose track of your side-grades purchased and not even realize you have potentially unused skills just sitting around.
Edit: Okay, a quick test, yeah, the main function of skills is properly tied to having the main ability unlocked, so having the "Smoke Bomb A" side grade unlocked in the prior example doesn't actually let you use smoke bomb by itself, but the way things disappear in the upgrade menu DOES still act as a bit of oversight, since someone may make the assumption selling the core skill would also sell the A or B version since they visibly disappear from the skill tree, but yeah, the side grades are still there, still giving stat bonuses and such-
They just don't actually function in combat without the main skill, and you still can't see them without the main skill active.
Last edited:
jokuur
Well-Known Member
- May 23, 2019
- 1,341
- 1,524
- 348
Last edited:
Also another note for TS, don't know if it's intended or warrants enough concern to need fixing, but auto barrier doesn't apply at the start of battle simulator fights.
Edit: Nevermind, apparently it does? Either my eyes were playing tricks on me or it's not consistent enough to recreate.
Edit: Nevermind, apparently it does? Either my eyes were playing tricks on me or it's not consistent enough to recreate.
I will say, I think this is probably the best balanced upgrade/combat system in one of TS' games so far. Though that does also come with it having harder limits than the others.
I definitely see what the start of the game meant with "You should prioritize one or two stats at most at least for now", since you definitely get more bang for your buck by trying to go deep in a skill tree than spreading things out, but also each play style has it's own unique balance between offence and defense options. Alchemy/Cunning having a lot more DOT, utility and evasion chance, Might/Phys giving extra health for defense and trying to sort of play high risk, high reward by pretty much using your HP as ammo, and Esper/Wit giving a fairly balanced style with flat damage negation with barrier, and lust powered attacks later in the skill tree.
I will say though, Esper does kind of seem better in terms of combat than Alchemy, even though Alchemy has a lot of different statuses that can be applied, utility, and so on, it kind of suffers for a lack of damage, so I've kind of had to hard pivot my build from being alchemy/esper with more emphasis on alchemy to almost entirely Esper invested with just smoke bombs for start of fight utility, but while the game incentivizes focusing on a tree, I think Alchemy is probably the objectively worst to focus on early game, as it has pretty much no damage per turn in comparison to the other two branches outside of AOE in large groups, but even then, at least at the stage I'm at (Working through the city core), most fights either are solo, have at least one big enemy that's beefier than the others so it's effectively a solo with extra low health mobs, or don't have enough enemies to where AOE would be better than multi-attack, since even in group fights, it's better to just take enemies out as fast as possible by focusing them down so you don't take as much damage each turn, than it is to tank hits from all enemies multiple turns just to kill them simultaneously.
All this isn't to say that alchemy is bad mind you or that any of it needs tweaking, but Alchemy definitely feels like it fits better as a supplement to whatever your main playstyle is, rather than focusing a build on it.
Smoke bomb is great for example, and it does add a great secondary defense while still dealing damage at the same time, but when I was more heavily geared towards alchemy early game, I was either losing or barely scraping by in most fights-
Now that could also be because I focused on upgrading the cauldron as fast as possible early game, and maybe just wasn't investing as much in alchemy, but with a lot of encounters being mainly "boss" focused rather than "mob" focused unless you're farming cleared areas for some reason, 30%-60% DOTs and AOEs aren't exactly gonna be the most effective thing against the single tanky target with typically a couple hundred HP, in comparison to phys builds which have 80%-100% power attacks at base, and Esper builds that have multi-hit ability which makes them viable against both groups AND single targets, possibly even stronger than a pure might build in raw damage output, since 40% hitting a single target 3 times is really just 120% damage delivered differently and with extra scaling potential based on lust conditions-
But yeah, I don't think any of this is really a complaint, just kind of a side effect to each leaning into different niches.
I do see a potential "fully optimized" build though that would basically just be Esper, with dips into alchemy and might for extra passive skills and maybe utility.
That being said, with the game allowing you to pretty much change your playstyle at just about any time, it wouldn't really hurt if the game implemented more fights tailored to highlight the strengths of each style, just with with a bit of warning to the player to prepare for challenge encounters, and they may be better as side things.
(Also I'm still relatively early in the game and haven't even gotten Tempest to 100 affection yet, so...could be possible all this is already factored into the game in later fights, but I'm a simple man, and I like to rant about the game I'm enjoying so much, even if I am optimizing the hell out of it.)
I definitely see what the start of the game meant with "You should prioritize one or two stats at most at least for now", since you definitely get more bang for your buck by trying to go deep in a skill tree than spreading things out, but also each play style has it's own unique balance between offence and defense options. Alchemy/Cunning having a lot more DOT, utility and evasion chance, Might/Phys giving extra health for defense and trying to sort of play high risk, high reward by pretty much using your HP as ammo, and Esper/Wit giving a fairly balanced style with flat damage negation with barrier, and lust powered attacks later in the skill tree.
I will say though, Esper does kind of seem better in terms of combat than Alchemy, even though Alchemy has a lot of different statuses that can be applied, utility, and so on, it kind of suffers for a lack of damage, so I've kind of had to hard pivot my build from being alchemy/esper with more emphasis on alchemy to almost entirely Esper invested with just smoke bombs for start of fight utility, but while the game incentivizes focusing on a tree, I think Alchemy is probably the objectively worst to focus on early game, as it has pretty much no damage per turn in comparison to the other two branches outside of AOE in large groups, but even then, at least at the stage I'm at (Working through the city core), most fights either are solo, have at least one big enemy that's beefier than the others so it's effectively a solo with extra low health mobs, or don't have enough enemies to where AOE would be better than multi-attack, since even in group fights, it's better to just take enemies out as fast as possible by focusing them down so you don't take as much damage each turn, than it is to tank hits from all enemies multiple turns just to kill them simultaneously.
All this isn't to say that alchemy is bad mind you or that any of it needs tweaking, but Alchemy definitely feels like it fits better as a supplement to whatever your main playstyle is, rather than focusing a build on it.
Smoke bomb is great for example, and it does add a great secondary defense while still dealing damage at the same time, but when I was more heavily geared towards alchemy early game, I was either losing or barely scraping by in most fights-
Now that could also be because I focused on upgrading the cauldron as fast as possible early game, and maybe just wasn't investing as much in alchemy, but with a lot of encounters being mainly "boss" focused rather than "mob" focused unless you're farming cleared areas for some reason, 30%-60% DOTs and AOEs aren't exactly gonna be the most effective thing against the single tanky target with typically a couple hundred HP, in comparison to phys builds which have 80%-100% power attacks at base, and Esper builds that have multi-hit ability which makes them viable against both groups AND single targets, possibly even stronger than a pure might build in raw damage output, since 40% hitting a single target 3 times is really just 120% damage delivered differently and with extra scaling potential based on lust conditions-
But yeah, I don't think any of this is really a complaint, just kind of a side effect to each leaning into different niches.
I do see a potential "fully optimized" build though that would basically just be Esper, with dips into alchemy and might for extra passive skills and maybe utility.
That being said, with the game allowing you to pretty much change your playstyle at just about any time, it wouldn't really hurt if the game implemented more fights tailored to highlight the strengths of each style, just with with a bit of warning to the player to prepare for challenge encounters, and they may be better as side things.
(Also I'm still relatively early in the game and haven't even gotten Tempest to 100 affection yet, so...could be possible all this is already factored into the game in later fights, but I'm a simple man, and I like to rant about the game I'm enjoying so much, even if I am optimizing the hell out of it.)
jokuur
Well-Known Member
- May 23, 2019
- 1,341
- 1,524
- 348
bro i didnt know this because i always play with my own music in background
Also I do gotta wonder, does EVERY monster girl you manage to let go in some way come back to play a part? I've managed for the most part, but I do kind of feel like I could lock off potential allies in the future by accident-
Also separate question: When Mind Flare B says it does "+40% damage when lust is over 50", is that 40% of the initial 40% added onto it? Or is it calculated as 40% +40% for 80% x 3 damage?
Interesting conclusions!
In testing, I found Cunning to be extremely powerful, so I had to nerf a few things. Might was insane too, the fact it gives both Max HP and Defense means you if you can meet the damage curve of the game, you're practically unstoppable.
Wits was the weakest in testing, so I buffed the bonus mag from affection, so Wits players may be weaker, especially before they unlock Passion Unleashed and manage their lust, but will find themselves with a stronger Mag economy.
All three trees have borderline invincible cheese builds at the moment. It's a little tricky for me to nerf them, but I only need to do that if people actually find them
If there's ever just a percentage, it's safe to assume it's a multipler and not additive. If it's additive, I've tried to write something like 80%->90%.
Yeah, almost every monster girl will show up at least twice. If you've acquired their support ability, their appearances in events are probably done. Gobbo is an exception atm.
Hmm...probably gonna need multiple playthroughs to try everything out-Interesting conclusions!
In testing, I found Cunning to be extremely powerful, so I had to nerf a few things. Might was insane too, the fact it gives both Max HP and Defense means you if you can meet the damage curve of the game, you're practically unstoppable.
Wits was the weakest in testing, so I buffed the bonus mag from affection, so Wits players may be weaker, especially before they unlock Passion Unleashed and manage their lust, but will find themselves with a stronger Mag economy.
All three trees have borderline invincible cheese builds at the moment. It's a little tricky for me to nerf them, but I only need to do that if people actually find them
If there's ever just a percentage, it's safe to assume it's a multipler and not additive. If it's additive, I've tried to write something like 80%->90%.
Yeah, almost every monster girl will show up at least twice. If you've acquired their support ability, their appearances in events are probably done. Gobbo is an exception atm.
Also gotta see if I can get "good" routes/ends to all the monster girls, since the Alraune I kind of accidentally killed because I picked the skill check, since typically skill checks lead to better outcomes-
And I honestly just turned in the imps since I didn't know how often I'd get the chance to get hero rep.
Although I'm particularly curious what the cheese builds are? At first the evasion in the alchemy tree is what caught my attention, since evade chance was a big thing in MG1K, but I feel like you've been more careful to balance it since then, and the sharp evade chance drop off on successful evasion attempts made me figure that it wouldn't quite be effective enough to reach "Nigh invincible" levels.All three trees have borderline invincible cheese builds at the moment. It's a little tricky for me to nerf them, but I only need to do that if people actually find them
I am curious what the builds for esper and phys would be, obviously esper has barrier, which is definitely strong even at base, and I've noticed various ability branches leaning more towards being able to stack more into barriers, but so far I haven't noticed it lasting more than two turns at most, especially as enemies keep ramping up.
Then again, I do feel I focused on economy so much early game, trying to generate more mag, I kind of neglected things in terms of combat optimizing until now.
...actually I might see how alchemy might have infinite cheese-
If you only have smoke bomb and fast footwork, you could theoretically get infinite or at the very least, A LOT of smoke bombs since you'd only have the basic smoke bomb and the explosive vial if both count for Fast Footwork A, then every evasion would be a 50% chance of getting a smoke bomb...and if it doesn't apply to explosive vials, that'd be a 100% chance every single evasion...
Okay, I might immediately take back everything I said about alchemy, as if that plays out the way I'm simulating in my mind, that one synergy basically brings back the ant shell meta of MG1K, dodge everything and just keep swinging.
I'm gonna test that, since if that's the case, you don't even need to invest heavily in alchemy to get a dramatic survivability boost-
If you only have smoke bomb and fast footwork, you could theoretically get infinite or at the very least, A LOT of smoke bombs since you'd only have the basic smoke bomb and the explosive vial if both count for Fast Footwork A, then every evasion would be a 50% chance of getting a smoke bomb...and if it doesn't apply to explosive vials, that'd be a 100% chance every single evasion...
Okay, I might immediately take back everything I said about alchemy, as if that plays out the way I'm simulating in my mind, that one synergy basically brings back the ant shell meta of MG1K, dodge everything and just keep swinging.
I'm gonna test that, since if that's the case, you don't even need to invest heavily in alchemy to get a dramatic survivability boost-
Stop asking questions about barrier RIGHT NOW
Also does the evasion weakening reduction from Bomb B/Phantom Step apply to all forms of evasion or just smoke bomb induced evasion? I imagine it doesn't make much practical difference, but it would change the numbers slightly-
Don't worry, I'm asking questions about evasion now.
Plus, I've played TS games enough to know they don't care TOO much about nerfing cheesy builds, only if it completely invalidates any other play style, like what...I believe it was ice magic(?) did in early versions of Unveiling The Unknown, where the cheese there made it so there was no reason to ever use any other kind of magic ever, because it did crazy damage and also trivialized defense to an insane degree by one shotting everything in turn 1 and making you invincible the more you fought at close to the start of the game. It took some balancing and there was back and forth in the community-
Becoming the literal embodiment of a snowball was fun, but that case definitely needed a patch, as it made combat irrelevant to the point it was literally just get the right upgrade, press one button, and win, and if you press anything other than that button, you lost.
But TS is a fan of the art of the super boss and those basically necessitate cheese strats, so just because it's OP doesn't mean it'll be patched, as long it doesn't become the ONLY way to play the game.
Also Clippy found in the wild.
Edit for my out of context reaction to figuring something out: Oh...THAT'S what the build for esper is-
Okay-
Last edited:
Also tested the evasion smoke bomb strategy, it seems it had potential, but at some point I just ran out of smoke bombs even if I kept successfully dodging until my evasion ran out.
I'm also fuzzy on what the distinction between "basic" and "advanced" potions/vials are, as nothing is tagged as being basic or advanced in the skill tree.