Patreon and incest

CristianG123

New Member
Apr 26, 2020
9
22
Hey everyone! I'm working on the story of a game that I will soon begin developing. It's a harem style game, initially one of the girls was supposed to be the sister of the MC, and it was a relevant part of the story, not just to add another kink. But now that I know that it's banned on patreon, as well as other platforms, I'm having to rethink parts of the story. I know I could just make her a "friend" (that happens to look like a female version of the MC lol) and patch it, but it would still take away from the story.

So, on to my issue, two of the girls in the harem are sisters (not related to the MC though), and at some point you'll be able to have a threesome with them. Would that count as incest too? A threesome with two sisters? Do I need to rethink that part of the story too? They're all visibly adults, for what it's worth.
 

kytee

Member
Dec 17, 2018
306
699
I often thought about this. One stupid thing that I think might work is if you, the dev, was working with, say an "individual", but you two separated because he's a dickbag. So you, the dev start to finish working on your game, but that "individual" who had access to your entire script and all your assets, proceeds to create an incest mod of your game to spite you. He might even have an account here on F95 and interact with fans of his "mod" and maybe you two might fight on your thread every once in a while to add credibility. That way you might have plausible deniability? Maybe? :ROFLMAO:
 

woody554

Well-Known Member
Jan 20, 2018
1,429
1,789
both count as incest. as does stepcest. although if the sisters don't actually do stuff to each other during the threesome you might get away with it.

there are several ways you can go about it, which depend a lot from that 'relevant part of the story'.

for most trivial cases you can just change a couple of variables and restrict the 'incest' to those only. change 'sister' to 'friend' or something like that. works pretty well when there's no actual story. this can be done in a patch or by asking the player to define the relationships at the beginning. the problem with latter is the player won't know how exactly YOU used the variables so there might be misunderstanding. also it'll be problematic for writing incestuous hot dialog during sex. I mean you can't make them say: "fuck me, I want to feel my FRIEND's cock deep in his FRIEND's pussy!" so you avoid lines like that during writing. basically it only fully works when they don't show any incestuous behaviour towards each other. which kinda defeats the point of making it incest in the first place.

but when you have essential related story you quickly get into more complex problems than just changing names, like how do you explain the flashback to childhood where you live in the same house with your 'friend'. you might find out you need to write two versions for the critical parts, incest and noncest, then have a boolean to switch between them. so the patch only needs to change that one variable, and you've already done all the real work under the hood. the good thing about it is the versions don't have to be identical, you can have different flashback for both of them. maybe your sister grew up in your house, but for your 'friend' the flashback happens in a completely different setting. you don't have to do that, but it's a good option if you have a scene so crucial you just can't make it work for both cases with text changes only.

the most laborous (for the modder) is to externalize all the incest dialog into a '3rd party' patch, which will then need to be remade with every new update. the upside is NO incest is present in your code, but it's laborous and if the patch is not made by you the added text might be anything. some people are paranoid about patreon looking inside you code and seeing the incest dialog, but I highly doubt the can be arsed to do that.

one thing about patching is it can't be connected to you, even if it's on another site outside patreon. in the early days some were burned by that. I can't remember it happening after the beginning, but that's still possible. so the patch needs to come from someone else, or 'someone else'.

in the end though none of these are foolproof, there's no laws forcing patreon to be in any way consistent about it. even if there were not a single bit of incest present, they can boot you off one day just because they don't like the smell of it. which also means that anything they now say is fine might one day be not.

the reality though is they seem to only act based on complaints, and several of the biggest games have bannable content right there in the open. and for what I've seen they've been very cooperative about the changes they've required for unbanning. in my opinion it seems they're only acting when forced to, so they can say they're taking it seriously. but of course they know what every game with 'landlady' and 'roommates' is really about.

those are the main things to think about.
 
2

215303j

Guest
Guest
Two things:

1) It seems like Patreon is more likely to catch on if the name of the game points to incest content and if the incest content is present early in the game (e.g. the MC spying on his mom in episode 1). So if you plan to have the threesome with the sisters somewhere in episode 8 and they are not major love interests prior to that, I think you'll be fine. There are plenty of games which have something like that and they are also fine.

2) Regarding the MC's sister, who seems like a major LI, the way you describe it. I think you simply need to make a choice. Write the story from the incest point of view or not. If you choose to write incest, just make the relationship a simple variable and accept that the non-incest-patched story makes less sense. That said, I think brother-sister incest is more easily to hide in the "childhood friend" trope than e.g. father-daughter incest, especially in a setting where the MC is no longer living at home with mom and dad. E.g. in Freeloading Family, the patch became largely inconsequential the last couple of updates because it's clear how the relationships are meant to be and they rarely refer to each other by their "family title".
 

Salami Pasta

Member
Apr 4, 2020
162
506
Just a random thought, but, isn't Subscribestar an option for incest-themed games? Or they're banning them there too?
 

lemonfreak

The Freakiest of Lemons
Oct 24, 2018
5,406
10,107
Just a random thought, but, isn't Subscribestar an option for incest-themed games? Or they're banning them there too?
They allow incest, at least so far, but payment options are more limited which mean, from the dev's perspective, growth is difficult.
 

SirSpitz

Newbie
Aug 22, 2020
73
39
Do both....
Script your game in such away that you can plug in incest and patch the other without it. One game for those sites that have no problem with the topic, the other for those that do.

I have seen other copies of the same game on different sites. There are not just one pond in the world to fish in and if you hold the copyrights, its either fly fishing or lure Bass fishing--that is unless there are term and useage rules that restrict. Personally I'd investigate the rules and possibly laws that govern any work.
 
2

215303j

Guest
Guest
Do both....
Script your game in such away that you can plug in incest and patch the other without it. One game for those sites that have no problem with the topic, the other for those that do.
The problem is that one version must be the true one.

If you write incest and (for Patreon's sake) write "friend" instead of "sister", then players will wonder why it's such a big deal to fuck the childhood friend if you are attracted to each other. The other way around, write "friend" while you mean "friend" and someone still patches it, then players may wonder why it's so easy to fuck your sister.

I think the dev should write what he wants to write and declare that the "true" version, and accept that the non-patched version may be a worse story.
 
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moskyx

Forum Fanatic
Jun 17, 2019
4,009
12,983
Do both....
Script your game in such away that you can plug in incest and patch the other without it. One game for those sites that have no problem with the topic, the other for those that do.

I have seen other copies of the same game on different sites. There are not just one pond in the world to fish in and if you hold the copyrights, its either fly fishing or lure Bass fishing--that is unless there are term and useage rules that restrict. Personally I'd investigate the rules and possibly laws that govern any work.
You can't do that with current Patreon's ToS. If they find out you're offering incest contents elsewhere, they assume you're funding them with the money you get on their platform with your non-incest version of the game, and they'll kick you out either way. As others have said, the only option is trying to offer the incest patch/version in a way that couldn't be traced down to you
 

おい!

Engaged Member
Mar 25, 2018
2,576
7,565
Just a random thought, but, isn't Subscribestar an option for incest-themed games? Or they're banning them there too?
3253 Patreons vs 1902 Subscribers and that is an already established game.
 

SirSpitz

Newbie
Aug 22, 2020
73
39
Awh.... I kind of thought there maybe conflict of interest rules that would make my idea unworkable, and why I suggested looking at terms and services agreements ....

So how does that work having found the same games on different sites?
 

moskyx

Forum Fanatic
Jun 17, 2019
4,009
12,983
Awh.... I kind of thought there maybe conflict of interest rules that would make my idea unworkable, and why I suggested looking at terms and services agreements ....

So how does that work having found the same games on different sites?
From
Because you are raising funds on Patreon, we may be held accountable for what you do with those funds, so we may also look at what you do with your membership off our platform. As a result when we talk about "On Patreon," it means the creations you are funding on and through Patreon.
So everything you can't do on Patreon, you shouldn't do it off Patreon as they can consider you're funding it through them. But in the end everything comes to your Patreon account being reported by someone or not
 
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215303j

Guest
Guest
So everything you can't do on Patreon, you shouldn't do it off Patreon as they can consider you're funding it through them.
I don't doubt that is written there, but that seems just wrong...

Some random employment contract said:
You work for the company for 40 hours per week. Your salary is $4000 / month. You are not allowed to the following with that money however:
- Buy beer
- Buy red t-shirts (we hate those)
- But sneakers (we also hate those)
- Give money to any charity except the ones on our approval list.
- For further limitations please see the appendix and the guidelines on our intranet.
If I would make a random romance VN without any incest and fund it through Patreon I should still be able to fuck my IRL sister as long as that's legal in my jurisdiction.
 

moskyx

Forum Fanatic
Jun 17, 2019
4,009
12,983
I don't doubt that is written there, but that seems just wrong...



If I would make a random romance VN without any incest and fund it through Patreon I should still be able to fuck my IRL sister as long as that's legal in my jurisdiction.
As long as you don't post videos of it anywhere you should be fine. This is not an employment relationship, you are not doing any job for Patreon, you are partners because you are using their funding service and they could be held responsible for what you are actually doing with those funds and not only for what you offer on their platform. ISIS could open a Patreon account showing cute kitten's videos but if they're earning money there and then post other kind of content elsewhere Patreon could still being accused of helping them funding their illegal activities, maybe not on court, but surely from a reputational pov it would be a hard blow. Now incest might not be terrorism but their payment partners have drawn their line there and they just have to go with it.
 

moskyx

Forum Fanatic
Jun 17, 2019
4,009
12,983
make a harem version at patreon
make an incest version at subscribestar
Then someone reports you on Patreon, Patreon finds out your incest version at Subscribestar and they kick you out from Patreon. Honestly, if your story only makes sense from an incest perspective, I wouldn't even try yo set up a Patreon account (or at least i would have always in mind that it could end badly)
 

Fliptoynk

Member
Nov 9, 2018
384
324
Then someone reports you on Patreon, Patreon finds out your incest version at Subscribestar and they kick you out from Patreon. Honestly, if your story only makes sense from an incest perspective, I wouldn't even try yo set up a Patreon account (or at least i would have always in mind that it could end badly)
I thought patreon just don't want unwanted attention from the internet fuzz so whatever's released outside their yard, that ain't their problem, it's subscribestar's, so they better stop buzzing around

anyways, I'll make a note of that (y)
 
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215303j

Guest
Guest
This is not an employment relationship, you are not doing any job for Patreon
Exactly. Patreon should have less influence over your life than a normal employer would, all within legal limits obviously.

they could be held responsible for what you are actually doing with those funds and not only for what you offer on their platform.
I'm not a lawyer but I think that's a stretch.
There are obviously people making money on Patreon who are spending that money in some ambiguous ways.
I don't know exactly what Patreon hates besides fictional computer generated incest but I'm sure it must be a pretty long list.

ISIS could open a Patreon account showing cute kitten's videos but if they're earning money there and then post other kind of content elsewhere Patreon could still being accused of helping them funding their illegal activities, maybe not on court, but surely from a reputational pov it would be a hard blow.
Even Western government agencies ended up funding very dubious groups in the Syrian civil war due to poor or wrong intelligence (and plain stupidity).

Patreon has no intelligence agency nor any other serious means of investigating anything, so I have zero doubt that there are ISIS supporters or members making money on Patreon, and forwarding that money through dubious channels to even more dubious groups.

The same goes for Youtube and any other media / social media platform.
 
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moskyx

Forum Fanatic
Jun 17, 2019
4,009
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Exactly. Patreon should have less influence over your life than a normal employer would, all within legal limits obviously.


I'm not a lawyer but I think that's a stretch.
There are obviously people making money on Patreon who are spending that money in some ambiguous ways.
I don't know exactly what Patreon hates besides fictional computer generated incest but I'm sure it must be a pretty long list.


Even Western government agencies ended up funding very dubious groups in the Syrian civil war due to poor or wrong intelligence (and plain stupidity).

Patreon has no intelligence agency nor any other serious means of investigating anything, so I have zero doubt that there are ISIS supporters or members making money on Patreon, and forwarding that money through dubious channels to even more dubious groups.

The same goes for Youtube and any other media / social media platform.
I'm not going to argue, I'm just stating how things work. If you don't agree, go to Patreon and make your complain