Patreon goals devs make for their games

[interlinked]

Is it just me? Or do most people feel like devs promissing a spin-off or starting a completely new project while having the base game unfinished is a bad idea. When I choose to support a game developer on Patreon, I usually do it because I like a certain game from them. Setting up goals which take away your time from the base game just doesn't feel like a goal most patrons would want to strife for. It just feels counterproductive to me.

If I want to make a pledge, I do it with the idea of helping devs focus more time and resources on a project I like. Why would I want to reach a pledge goal where the exact opposite of that is going to happen? How do others feel about this?

 

[Pretentious Goblin]

Unless the goal is for a commission done by someone else, yeah, it's a dumb way of managing a project.

 

[GingerSweetGirl]

I feel like there's some inherent contradictions in the Patreon model of tiers. The game can't be free, so it needs to cost something, but they don't want it to be too expensive because then the game won't grow. So the game itself, the thing that drives their business, is usually set at a pretty reasonable tier. The contradiction exists because of the higher tiers and their rewards. Often, rewards for the higher tiers feel like something that should be free; especially if it's additional promotional artwork. Hiding previews and teaser images behind high paywalls seems self defeating. Yes, the patrons enjoy it, but these are images that could be used to grow your game by creating hype. Distributing them to the loyalist of your patrons feels like a isolated feedback loop. Same goes for "early" releases and polls. Early releases aren't really early, you're still waiting the same amount of time since you last played a new release- it's just sleight of hand to make you feel like you're getting it sooner. Polls can drive engagement with your product, but when you hide them behind high paywalls you're inherently reducing their effectiveness because you're polling a small sample of your patrons.

To your point OP: all of these things often take away time from developing the main game. The need to create additional perks/rewards for higher tiers takes time away from doing the thing you should be doing. While this can be very profitable for the devs, I don't think it's a great way to structure the support from the patron's perspective.

 

[morphnet]

After some thought the only time I could think of for when a second game might be a good idea is if it's a team and one or more members are taking a holiday. Then if the remaining members want to put out a small, short game in that break it could be nice. Outside of that though I can't think of a good reason to start up a second game before finishing the first.

 

[Jaike]

One side that's missing from this thread now is that a solo dev or a very small team doesn't just have to manage their game project(s) but also look out for their mental health to avoid burnout. Yes a second game is likely not a good idea financially and it makes more drama among the supporters, but it breaks the monotony.

 

[Gwedelino]

Is it just me? Or do most people feel like devs promissing a spin-off or starting a completely new project while having the base game unfinished is a bad idea.

A dev starting to work on a second game project is a huge red flag for me.

Might be me, but I nearly always saw this ending badly, with mostly one of the game sinking completely.

No matter your ressources, I think it's always better to focus on 1 game project at the time.

 

[anne O'nymous]

Is it just me? Or do most people feel like devs promissing a spin-off or starting a completely new project while having the base game unfinished is a bad idea.

It depend. If it's effectively a Patreon goal, it can perfectly mean that, starting this amount of money, he will hire someone to do part of the works for him. Therefore this will give him the time to works on a second project, without really impacting the first one.
At least theoretically, because in practice when you works on a game, especially when it's your game, you pass most of your time thinking about it. And switching between two projects only mean that there's a big mess in your mind.

I feel like there's some inherent contradictions in the Patreon model of tiers.

Have to be kept in mind that it's a "one fit all" model.

I agree that it seem to works backward regarding game production, with, like you said, what should be free being the reward for high tiers, while what should cost the most is the reward for the lower one. But in the same time, this model works way better for almost everything else, because the reward is then something totally different from the product.

In a way, it's the faith of the profession. Anything you can offer as reward will seem to come directly from your game, or it will lower a bit its interest.
You offer pictures ? Well, even if your game is in real time 3D, aren't "good and lewd visual" what your game is already offering ? Then, as you said, those pictures feel more like promotional material than rewards ; "Yeah, you took a screenshot of the game, is it that ?"
You offer exclusive in-game content ? Either it will be something disconnected from the story, in which case does it really worth it ? Or it will mean that a part of your game will be unplayable by those who aren't your patrons. And then, will people want to be your patron, if the game they tested for free is deprived of what is probably it's best part ? It's like a cook giving the full meal only for those who pay an additional fee. Some will be curious and do it, but the majority will try the incomplete meal first. Then, like it will be something totally average, they'll believe that the full meal don't worth the additional fee.
Even offering early access related to the tiers do not works. Whatever if you have to wait 0 days or a full month to have access to the last update. In the end, you'll still have to wait two months (by example) between two updates, whatever if you're at tiers 3 or tiers 1. It's just that those two months don't cover the same period of time. It don't even works the first time, since you'll wait for the game to be available for the tiers you want to join before you starts pledging.
And of course, the access to intermediary update is the worse. If will feel like you are paying for the right to help the dev debug his game ; "hey, pay me more, and you'll have the pleasure to play unfinished updates with bugs and placeholders".

So, what left exactly for game creators ? Not much except commissioning someone to create totally different content. But most creators on the scene don't earn much. Therefore, they'll loose more money doing this, than they will gain. So, in the end, they do with what they can...

 

[Nihil5320]

I feel like there's some inherent contradictions in the Patreon model of tiers. The game can't be free, so it needs to cost something, but they don't want it to be too expensive because then the game won't grow. So the game itself, the thing that drives their business, is usually set at a pretty reasonable tier. The contradiction exists because of the higher tiers and their rewards. Often, rewards for the higher tiers feel like something that should be free; especially if it's additional promotional artwork. Hiding previews and teaser images behind high paywalls seems self defeating. Yes, the patrons enjoy it, but these are images that could be used to grow your game by creating hype. Distributing them to the loyalist of your patrons feels like a isolated feedback loop. Same goes for "early" releases and polls. Early releases aren't really early, you're still waiting the same amount of time since you last played a new release- it's just sleight of hand to make you feel like you're getting it sooner. Polls can drive engagement with your product, but when you hide them behind high paywalls you're inherently reducing their effectiveness because you're polling a small sample of your patrons.

To your point OP: all of these things often take away time from developing the main game. The need to create additional perks/rewards for higher tiers takes time away from doing the thing you should be doing. While this can be very profitable for the devs, I don't think it's a great way to structure the support from the patron's perspective.

I feel as though there are some fairly gaping holes in Patreon as a model full stop.

Gating product descriptions behind purchases so it's often, dependent on what the dev chooses to share with non-backers, difficult to even tell what they're making. Dev moderation of their own pages so they can hide negative feedback. No auditing or due diligence conducted by Patreon at all, with the only moderation being based on the nature of content and openly fraudulent projects (e.g. those taking credit for others work which may open Patreon up to copyright suits). Also pseudo-anonymity for devs means that users can't conduct due diligence and there are no professional repercussions even for egregious cases of misselling that on other platforms would be considered borderline fraud.

It's a great idea in principle, and it's funded a few good projects, but in practice it has mostly just become an unnavigable dogpile of low-effort scam projects and phantomware.

 

[CardinalRed]

Lots of times it is done because if he ends the current game, he will lose a huge amount of following, so they start a secong game to retain the patrons and get new people in, then they finish the first one and the next project is already there.

Starting a second without being close to end the first is a bad idea imo

 

[Doorknob22]

As long is my life consists of a full time job and developing my game, I will never start a new game. However, if my life was 100% writing games, I can see myself starting another game in order to reduce burnout. As a porn author, I often have several stories ongoing (but I don't publish them until they are ready). Sometimes it's easier for the mind to tackle different creative challenges instead of being locked in a single one.

In other words: if a developer works X hours per day on game A, if suddenly Y hours become available to him, he might not have the creative energy to channel them to game A and might channel them to game B instead.

 

[interlinked]

Some of the responses mention burnout when a dev focuses on one single title. I thought about that one a lot, I'm a software developer myself and can totaly see that beeing a case. Some people indeed need to switch between projects to stay motivated and keep things somewhat fresh.

The problem is having such a thing as their funding goal. Majority of people pledging their money want the dev to stay on his primary project, so starting a new one as a "reward" is just a bad idea. The rewards should be stuff like hiring new staff, upgrading your setup to speed up your development process or increasing the quality of the game overall.

 

[GingerSweetGirl]

Burnout is a real thing, and I keep seeing devs make the same mistakes. IMO, the best way to avoid burnout is to keep the have fresh and punchy. Too many devs have settled on an overly linear story that stresses complex progression of the story. In order for Event D to happen, events A through C have to happen first, and each of those is boring and time consuming.

I think solo devs need to plan their game out more, and keep things simple.

 

[Winterfire]

Is it just me? Or do most people feel like devs promissing a spin-off or starting a completely new project while having the base game unfinished is a bad idea. When I choose to support a game developer on Patreon, I usually do it because I like a certain game from them. Setting up goals which take away your time from the base game just doesn't feel like a goal most patrons would want to strife for. It just feels counterproductive to me.

If I want to make a pledge, I do it with the idea of helping devs focus more time and resources on a project I like. Why would I want to reach a pledge goal where the exact opposite of that is going to happen? How do others feel about this?

You are right, it is kind of weird.
Usually, goals are related to the current project.

A goal of mine is general (100 patrons) but it's related to whether people like and enjoy my current project, so in a way, still related to the project.
It does not make sense to have a goal to have something else, as it is counterproductive.

After some thought the only time I could think of for when a second game might be a good idea is if it's a team and one or more members are taking a holiday. Then if the remaining members want to put out a small, short game in that break it could be nice. Outside of that though I can't think of a good reason to start up a second game before finishing the first.

A dev starting to work on a second game project is a huge red flag for me.

Might be me, but I nearly always saw this ending badly, with mostly one of the game sinking completely.

No matter your ressources, I think it's always better to focus on 1 game project at the time.

It is not as bad as you may think.

If you do gaym developing correctly, you will know your limits and what you can and cannot do. It is usually the first thing you learn, as you do not want to start with your big idea, then end up stuck with the same project 5 years later.

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It can definitely work, as long as you do not go in blindly.
It is also unavoidable since before or later your current project will be completed, and you need to offer a second one... You simply won't have the time to release it right away if you do not plan ahead and start working on it before your main one is completed.

Right now I am working on a single project although I had planned to work on two initially, but this one is taking way more time than I had anticipated.
However, now that it is close(-ish) to being completed, not only I need to start my next project, but I also have the possibility to since most of the time consuming things are done.

In short, it highly depends on the developer, but it can definitely be done even if you are solo.

I think solo devs need to plan their game out more, and keep things simple.

Creating a Game Design Document is actually the first step of creating a game, whether you are solo or not.
Nevermind burning out (Which luckily I have never experienced), you are just asking to make your life harder without an overview of your project.

 

[Alboe Interactive]

Some of the responses mention burnout when a dev focuses on one single title. I thought about that one a lot, I'm a software developer myself and can totaly see that beeing a case. Some people indeed need to switch between projects to stay motivated and keep things somewhat fresh.

The problem is having such a thing as their funding goal. Majority of people pledging their money want the dev to stay on his primary project, so starting a new one as a "reward" is just a bad idea. The rewards should be stuff like hiring new staff, upgrading your setup to speed up your development process or increasing the quality of the game overall.

There are ongoing costs like buying new environments, clothes, characters, etc. Unless a story is going to be inside one building with a fixed cast, most AVNs tend to expand and need ongoing funds to continue production. And hiring someone is way more expensive, trumping all of what I just listed in monthly costs combined.

A PC upgrade is feasible (I just did it), but not always in the cards depending on the circumstances of some devs (heavy import costs, unavailability, etc).

So sometimes devs are stuck on one project within the capabilities of their skills, PC, and wallet. Most any dev starting off believes they can stick with a single project all the way to completion. Practically everyone changes their tune after months and months with their nose to the grindstone. Arriving at the moment when they hop back on their PC to continue working on their project and say to themselves "Ugh... this shit again?" is more common than you think.

 

[interlinked]

There are ongoing costs like buying new environments, clothes, characters, etc. Unless a story is going to be inside one building with a fixed cast, most AVNs tend to expand and need ongoing funds to continue production. And hiring someone is way more expensive, trumping all of what I just listed in monthly costs combined.

A PC upgrade is feasible (I just did it), but not always in the cards depending on the circumstances of some devs (heavy import costs, unavailability, etc).

So sometimes devs are stuck on one project within the capabilities of their skills, PC, and wallet. Most any dev starting off believes they can stick with a single project all the way to completion. Practically everyone changes their tune after months and months with their nose to the grindstone. Arriving at the moment when they hop back on their PC to continue working on their project and say to themselves "Ugh... this shit again?" is more common than you think.

I agree one million percent that developing one game for a long time will get old. There is definitely stuff you can do to spice it up even for one continuous project though. You can introduce some new system, introduce new characters which can switch things up a lot.

When it comes to hiring and stuff, this of course applies only to projects with really substantial funding secured. Having around 10k dollars a month definitetly allows you to pay someone a part time sallary to help you with art or coding. If you're in a several thousand dollars kind of situation, you can at least afford to outsource some of you work.

If your funding is below a thousand dollars, most reasonable people don't expect you investing heavily in your project. The support given usually means they appreciate your game and want to help you out. I also think that if you're in low hundreds when it comes to income, you are at the beginning of your development journey and canceling or switching projects is to be expected. Majority of people don't know right away what kind of game they want to make and dedicate most of their time into. When you find what works for you though and keep delivering quality content, you're at some point going to have dedicated and growing fanbase. That will allow you to invest more of your time and continue from there.

The only situation when there is not much you can do to grow is when you decide to create a game with really niche audience. A fury game with oversized genitals is never going to secure as much funding as your generic college campus dating sim.

 

[Atemsiel]

Wait people actually do this? Having a goal for starting a new project seems super weird. "Be sure to support this project if you want to see my time split between this one and something else that you may or may not be interested in."

Like what? I've personally never seen this, but oh well. I'm an HS2 dev and so basically have no actual dev costs, so I struggled earlier today to work out what I could change my goal to. (It was previously a "I'll quit my job and work full time" goal, but that's a bit unrealistic right now). Ended up going with I'll get a new GPU to allow me to actually make animated scenes featuring more than 3 characters at a decent framerate.

I can understand stuff like "I'll introduce a new character" or something, though I'd never personally do it myself, but at least that adds to the thing people are actually supporting.

I don't personally understand devs who work on multiple games at the same time, but that's just me. Best of luck to them. (For real though, what a weird thing to set as a goal)