people's opinion rpgmaker vs ren'py

[tukahon]

Hey,

So I have been thinking about the different game engines that are used to create games here, and what I have been noticing lately is people bashing rpgmaker games and praising ren'py,

I know this is probably due to rpgmaker games usually lack the rpg aspect and it mainly becomes a walking simulator.

Why i am asking is that
I am looking to develop a little game.(which I will share for free here), but curious which route I should go with the engine.

so I greatly appreciate all opinions i recieve


My opinion is that rpgmaker is a better style of a game as ren'py tends to turn to just this mindleas clicking,(if it has a bad story) so at first I was looking at making an rpgmaker game but with all recent ren'py praise i am wondering if I have missed something.

 

[lodadsaq]

it depends on waht the game genre is, storys and such are usually better in renpy, but thing swith fighting and such usually are better in RPGM.

so ecplain your game idea a bit please

 

[a meme]

Both engines are for something completely different. If you're making a visual novel, then obviously pick Ren'py. If you want to add gameplay, then don't use generic RPGmaker battles because that's exactly why people hate it. Add new things, like cloth destruction, different outfits, battle fuck/rape, etc.

 

[Lorric17]

RPGM games are strong in that you have an environment that the player can examine and find clues, plus there is combat mechanics. This can also be bad in that the player has to talk to everyone after each step of the story, and it's not clear what to do or where to go. You really need to help the player figure out where to go. Some rpgm games are rightly called walking simulators, because the dev makes the player walk from one end of town to the other seven times just to make 10$ a day, and you need 400$ to advance the plot (icstor does this a lot).

Ren'py is better for stories and VNs, but it can also be grindy in another way: mindless menu-clicking 600 times just to gain +2 relation with that hot biker chick. Superpowered is particularly bad in this.

Now, I am not a developer, but from what I read, the RPGM games have an editor that allows you to create the games, where Ren'py is based on you editing a lot of text files for scripts and such. Many non-programmer devs will clearly prefer the first.

 

[tukahon]

I was thinking to limit myself to a very linear story and only release it when its fully done ( so basicly just add things I want like an indie development should be) ,

it will probably turn out closer to a visual novel as the player wont do much except talk to A then walk and talk to B etc.

 

[baneini]

If an rpgm title has no gameplay to speak of and everything it has could be done with Renpy then renpy is better.
If the dev actually makes use of engine then rpgm can be a lot more entertaining and offer more gameplay hours. All the stats, cloth options, puzzles and worldbuilding can be really good in rpgm titles and the pacing is a lot better in general because you dont just have dialogue boxes like in renpy.

 

[Iggybousse]

Most will prefer Renpy because they want to click with 1 hand and fap with the other.
I prefer to be more engaged. Just my 2 cents. I'm oldskool, I love the RPGM style too.
Reminds me of older Final Fantasy games... with porn :biggrin:.

 

[redknight00]

Rpgmaker obviously is good rpgs, not visual novels, most of the complaints are because people use rpgm for stuff that could easily be done in ren'py better, like multiple locations and some minor economy.

 

[DarthSeduction]

Hey,

So I have been thinking about the different game engines that are used to create games here, and what I have been noticing lately is people bashing rpgmaker games and praising ren'py,

I know this is probably due to rpgmaker games usually lack the rpg aspect and it mainly becomes a walking simulator.

Why i am asking is that
I am looking to develop a little game.(which I will share for free here), but curious which route I should go with the engine.

so I greatly appreciate all opinions i recieve


My opinion is that rpgmaker is a better style of a game as ren'py tends to turn to just this mindleas clicking,(if it has a bad story) so at first I was looking at making an rpgmaker game but with all recent ren'py praise i am wondering if I have missed something.

I'm a vocal opponent of using RPGM unless you're making an appropriate game. That said Coceter Chronicles is my favorite game, and it is RPGM. The engine does matter, but quality is key. If you can make an enjoyable RPGM then do it, you'll revive what should be a great format. However if you're using RPGM to make what would otherwise be a VN, you're just gonna alienate people.

Coceter Chronicles and Vis Major are two examples of really well made games that use RPGM. I'd recommend them to anyone. So if you can do that, do it.

Also, both of those games have great stories as well as their appropriate use of RPGM so make sure you don't use the fact that you're not creating a VN to excuse story skill. There are plenty of writers here who would be happy to edit your story (myself included) if you need work in that area. No one will write it for you without being a partner, but they'll certainly be willing to help you develop it into something better.

 

[tukahon]

i feel that if you use the world and it engage with you, then rpg maker can become much better then a ren'py,
what i personally love is running around and not knowing what will happen when you run somewhere (and thats what i kinda wanna recreate)

 

[Iggybousse]

Rpgmaker obviously is good rpgs, not visual novels, most of the complaints are because people use rpgm for stuff that could easily be done in ren'py better, like multiple locations and some minor economy.

Yeh but you have 0 feeling with the game in 99 percent of the renpy games. It doesn,t matter if you're having sex in the kitchen, bathroom or the pool, it all feels the same.
In RPGM however, you actually imagine and enjoy the whole experience.
I get so bored so fast with Renpy myself up to a point I skip a while and close the game.
I'm talking about most of the renpy generic games. There are exceptions, like Summertime Saga for example.

 

[Iggybousse]

I'm a vocal opponent of using RPGM unless you're making an appropriate game. That said Coceter Chronicles is my favorite game, and it is RPGM. The engine does matter, but quality is key. If you can make an enjoyable RPGM then do it, you'll revive what should be a great format. However if you're using RPGM to make what would otherwise be a VN, you're just gonna alienate people.

Coceter Chronicles and Vis Major are two examples of really well made games that use RPGM. I'd recommend them to anyone. So if you can do that, do it.

Also, both of those games have great stories as well as their appropriate use of RPGM so make sure you don't use the fact that you're not creating a VN to excuse story skill. There are plenty of writers here who would be happy to edit your story (myself included) if you need work in that area. No one will write it for you without being a partner, but they'll certainly be willing to help you develop it into something better.

Don't forget Lily of the Valley, my personal favourite. The story in that one is insanely good.

 

[tukahon]

I'm a vocal opponent of using RPGM unless you're making an appropriate game. That said Coceter Chronicles is my favorite game, and it is RPGM. The engine does matter, but quality is key. If you can make an enjoyable RPGM then do it, you'll revive what should be a great format. However if you're using RPGM to make what would otherwise be a VN, you're just gonna alienate people.

Coceter Chronicles and Vis Major are two examples of really well made games that use RPGM. I'd recommend them to anyone. So if you can do that, do it.

Also, both of those games have great stories as well as their appropriate use of RPGM so make sure you don't use the fact that you're not creating a VN to excuse story skill. There are plenty of writers here who would be happy to edit your story (myself included) if you need work in that area. No one will write it for you without being a partner, but they'll certainly be willing to help you develop it into something better.

Thanks for the ideas , ye my story will most likely need some rewriting,

I know how to program and how to build games in unreal engine (which is way to heavy task for this kind of game) so thats why i aimed for rpgmaker as it looks easy too learn.

ive 3d animated in maya for almost 10 years
so my strength is in the art not the story.

 

[Iggybousse]

Thanks for the ideas , ye my story will most likely need some rewriting,

I know how to program and how to build games in unreal engine (which is way to heavy task for this kind of game) so thats why i aimed for rpgmaker as it looks easy too learn.

ive 3d animated in maya for almost 10 years
so my strength is in the art not the story.

If I can give just 1 piece of advice, try to make it as unique as possible when you can.
Most of the games nowadays (check the latest updates, even the 0.1 aka the new games) have no imagination.
There are a few games I have played that stand out high above the rest for imagination points.

For example (just the links to the f95 thread)

1.

You must be registered to see the links

2.

You must be registered to see the links

3.

You must be registered to see the links

4.

You must be registered to see the links

These are just a few I quickly thought of (RPGM, honestly can't think of a unique Renpy game that hasn't been done before).

 

[redknight00]

Could you be specific about what kind of game are you thinking of making? It would be easier to advise with more info. And what sort of gameplay you want to put in it.

 

[tukahon]

I want to start with something easy, so was thinking something along the lines of the regular corruption game minus the corruption, I want to make it puzzle based and absolutly no grinding, if you get asked to walk and talk to the same guy again it will be rewarded with a different reward,

and that the more troubled situations you end up in the more changes will happen to her visually,

as i said the art is my strongside,

I might consider going to full animated, but I am trying to limit the workload on my first project.

so daz models will be expected unfortunetlyn :/

 

[redknight00]

I want to start with something easy, so was thinking something along the lines of the regular corruption game minus the corruption, I want to make it puzzle based and absolutly no grinding, if you get asked to walk and talk to the same guy again it will be rewarded with a different reward,

and that the more troubled situations you end up in the more changes will happen to her visually,

as i said the art is my strongside,

I might consider going to full animated, but I am trying to limit the workload on my first project.

so daz models will be expected unfortunetlyn :/

Fortunately, one thing Rpgmaker is good for is exploration and word building, so you're lucky in that regard. I have some experience with it (mostly modding as you can see in my sign) and I can say the game editor is quite simple, so even a beginner should be able to work just fine.

Puzzles are a good mechanic if done well, they are by nature very engaging, one can't simply ignore a puzzle without at least thinking of a simple solution. Some lesser grind and combat can be done well if it's not too disruptive of the main story, killing two or three monsters for a quest is reasonable, killing 20 is not.

 

[anne O'nymous]

What to answer ? It's like asking if it's better to buy a Ferrari or a... don't know, lets say Toyota . If you want to impress and go fast, buy a Ferrari, but if you want a reliable car for everyday, then a Toyota is a better choice.
This said, most people, whatever they are for RPG Maker or Ren'py, tend to judge the engine by the games made with them. Which lead to "Ren'py is a click machine" and "RPG Maker is so boring". This while there's Ren'py games with a good combat system (

You must be registered to see the links

by example), and many RPG Maker games which aren't a walk simulator (

You must be registered to see the links

by example).

The reality is that there isn't a good choice. Not only it depend of the game you want to create, but it also depend of your knowledge. I remember reading a creator saying that he used RPG Maker not because it was better than Ren'py, but because it was "idiot proof", which is also a valid criteria.
In the end, the best game engine is simply the one you understand and feel safe using.

 

[baneini]

In the end, the best game engine is simply the one you understand and feel safe using.

Like when russians use QSP or Rags even when they're absolute pain to play because they don't bother learning any other engine.
At some point you simply need to learn a new engine for the end result to be passable. If the dev uses Unity or rpgmaker for a game that really should be on renpy it's really painful for the people wanting to play it. I feel many devs use unity because they plan to make a different game later on unity and the one they're working on now is just practice.

 

[anne O'nymous]

Like when russians use QSP or Rags even when they're absolute pain to play because they don't bother learning any other engine.

I was thinking in the creator point of view, but your argument is more than valid. This said, is the problem really the game engine, or the way it's used ? Take Ren'py by example, it can do more than the simple VN style ; still it's what 95% of the creators do.
Going this way, RPG maker is probably the worst option, because it's the more limited game engine. But still, a goodly done RPG Maker game, even if it's a walk simulator, is better than a badly done Ren'py one, or even Unity/Unreal one.

In an ideal world, we would have RPG Maker used for old style RPG games, Unity/Unreal used for real time 3D games, GameMaker for platform and sprite action games, and Ren'py for the rest. Each engine being used for what it do the best. But, well, if the world were ideal, I think that we would know it already.