I mean... why not look yourself?I have no idea how you got the $7000/month figure or if it can be verified. If someone could confirm I would appreciate it.
The sad reality is that nobody cares. They only care about the outcome. This is true for indie projects or AAA games - this rule even applies to other industries. If someone was renovating your home and only got half done - you wouldn't care how hard they worked or how many nails they hammered, you'd only care there's a big unfinished hole in the wall.Finally, people here only see the result and even then you choose to ignore it. Version 0.11 is actually v0.11.g can you guess how many v.11 were there in total? Can you guess how much work was sunk into those? Can anyone hope to guess what the latest updates are for the supporters?
You have to define what you mean by "toxic". Discussing topics in a way you disagree with isn't toxic.Being toxic for toxicity's sake is just a waste of everyone's time. If you don't like it, just ignore the topic and you will never have a reason to complain. It is indeed that simple.
DreamingAway it's obvious your ego took a hit and you are taking it all here in this forum. Kind of childish but you're calling me immature. Is there an end goal or were you just venting and now you're defending your statements?
How much money do you think a software developer makes per month if they only have this kind of work output?How much money do you think a software developer makes per month if they have a regular job?
To say in Seattle its easy for any developer to find a 200k annual salary job is nonsense. I don't know where the hell you get that numbers from but its so out of touch. I'd say u gonna be a chartered software engineer and like 10+ years experience in senior position for that (and u better be really really good at the job). Any qualifications below that I strongly believe companies would rather hire people overseas with similar experience but a lower salary for the job.Average in the USA includes a lot of rural places with a pretty low COL, and a lot of people who are earning the federal minimum wage, which is ridiculously low compared to what people need to survive. Again - in a city like SF or Seattle, you can hardly afford a 1BR apartment at $80k per year. I'm not saying that $80k per year is peanuts - I'm saying that a full time developer in these areas can EASILY be making $200k per year in a regular job. If you want that person to spend their time making your porn games, you need to understand what the opportunity cost is for them.
Above average only matters when compared to the actual COL in the area.
Just because it sounds like a lot of money to you (relative to where YOU live) doesn't mean that the dev is living the high life on the income you see.
I couldn't afford to live on that salary. I'd have to move somewhere WAY cheaper to survive, which isn't a reasonable expectation. You can argue that people in the US are overpaid, which is a potentially reasonable argument in some sense (aside from the fact that there's no social safety net here unlike any other developed country) but is a significantly different discussion than whether they're producing enough content to make you happy. Keep the money out of the conversation unless you know WAY more about the developer's circumstances - it doesn't actually make your argument better.
Ya'll really do think companies start working on products the moment you first hear about them don't you?How much money do you think a software developer makes per month if they only have this kind of work output?
Probably none because they would be out on the streets within the month for "skipping work" and not even calling in.
You're right - a GOOD developer with experience can easily find that kind of money. I don't mean to overstate the case - just that in Seattle or SF or whatever, for someone with even halfway decent skills $80k is below entry level wages. But your broader point is spot on. The total money doesn't really matter, or make a good case (unless the dev is clear about what their minimum threshold is for being able to afford to continue the work) it's about whether the output is of sufficient value to you for your contribution.To say in Seattle its easy for any developer to find a 200k annual salary job is nonsense. I don't know where the hell you get that numbers from but its so out of touch. I'd say u gonna be a chartered software engineer and like 10+ years experience in senior position for that (and u better be really really good at the job). Any qualifications below that I strongly believe companies would rather hire people overseas with similar experience but a lower salary for the job.
But I do agree with you those numbers aren't important anyway. The amount of money the dev currently earn or expect to earn does not change the quality and quantity of his updates. If someone like the current results he can support the dev. Anything else is the dev's own problem and should not be the players/supporters' concern.
Anything involving the fox is cursed. I've seen many dev teams take it on, and none of them have lasted.still crying over krystal rebirth
What does that have to do with the post you quoted?Ya'll really do think companies start working on products the moment you first hear about them don't you?
Apologies, I did not look hard enough, got it now, thanks for clarifying.I mean... why not look yourself?
Patreon has it on his front page at the top:
Abelius
is creating Pizza Hot!
- 355 paid members
- 15 posts
- $2,089/month
SubscribeStar shows all the different subscription tiers if you scroll down a little, each tier show their monthly cost and how many people are subscribed to each. I trust you can do basic math to add them yourself but it comes out to a bit over $7300 / month with both combined.
Edit: I want to make it clear that I am not hating on the dev himself, I just think its pathetic of both him and anyone defending his actions because it does not matter if $7000 is enough for him to live a luxurious life on its own or not or if a "real" software developer earns $200k a year doing a FULL TIME JOB.
The point is that this is a lot of money, an absurd amount of money, for the amount of content that he is putting out. If people want to be idiots and support that lifestyle of his its their choice but people should not be here justifying it or trying to deflect criticism for it.
There's a slight difference. You're FUNDING development, which normally means you would be looking for a return on investment once the product is ready - but in this case, you are getting some agreed upon rewards instead of a share of the profit from sales. The problem is that development isn't always smooth and linear, and that's even more true the smaller your team is - being sick for a week during a given month means that the output of a single person team is down 25% from baseline. Tack on a couple of other challenges, and it's easy to see how updates slip completely, or contain way less content than anyone wants. Not to mention that unless your patreon bucks are substantially higher than your monthly expenses, you either have to have a backup fund to cover attrition of funding, a second job, or regularly do a bunch of promotion to bring new funding in. And if your issue is that it turns out to be harder than you thought it would be to make as much content as your audience wants every month, then you need to figure out whether adding someone else to the team (or farming out some aspect on contract) is worth the additional tax of communicating, meeting, documenting and all of the other stuff that you have to do when you collaborate.We support developers because we appreciate their product, but at it's core we ARE paying for a product. If I am paying a developer, no matter if it is an indie developer or a AAA developer, I will pay as long as I see consistent results. More supporters will join and money will be earned if the game's progress shows steady version releases.
nice and all but the dev should be the ones open about issues they face rather than fans making the excuses for them.There's a slight difference. You're FUNDING development, which normally means you would be looking for a return on investment once the product is ready - but in this case, you are getting some agreed upon rewards instead of a share of the profit from sales. The problem is that development isn't always smooth and linear, and that's even more true the smaller your team is - being sick for a week during a given month means that the output of a single person team is down 25% from baseline. Tack on a couple of other challenges, and it's easy to see how updates slip completely, or contain way less content than anyone wants. Not to mention that unless your patreon bucks are substantially higher than your monthly expenses, you either have to have a backup fund to cover attrition of funding, a second job, or regularly do a bunch of promotion to bring new funding in. And if your issue is that it turns out to be harder than you thought it would be to make as much content as your audience wants every month, then you need to figure out whether adding someone else to the team (or farming out some aspect on contract) is worth the additional tax of communicating, meeting, documenting and all of the other stuff that you have to do when you collaborate.
Just saying - this ain't an easy thing to do well, and the audience isn't very forgiving - unless you're making a furry game - the furries will forgive any amount of delay, sandbagging and grift if they think you're going to make something they'll like.![]()