Porn Game Stories

[Bilbael]

Hello everyone,

I read everywhere about people complaining that the story is not good in most of the porn games they have played.

The main complains seem to come from free roaming/sandbox porn games such as Big Brother (but not only) :
- The characters lacking consistency
- The story lacking consistency
- The plot lacking originality
- The lack of impacting choices
- The poor quality of the dialogues
- etc.

Only few visual novel stories seem to be able to please these players (Being a DIK, City Of Broken dreamers, etc.)

But this is where I am going to piss off some of you : these game are not porn games to me.

They are really good, I really enjoy playing these games but, and this is my personal opinion, they are more normal games with some sex scenes than porn games. You could delete the sex scenes it will not impact the story that much.

Then should the story of a game revolve around the theme of sex as much as a porn or an erotic movie/novel to be called porn game? Games such as Dating My Daughter or Milfy City. I don't think so, there are games whose sex is not the main theme of the story which I still consider as porn games, games such as Zombie's Retreat. Then what is a porn game?

Here is my definition :
If sex is an element to support the narration, to give an atmosphere to the story, then it's not a porn game but just a game with sex scenes.
If the story serves to highlight the sex scenes and their routing, then it's a porn game.

Should we also talk about the word "game" in porn game. If it's a game, then we should be able to "play". Visual Novels such as Dating My Daughter are closer to a novel than a game, and Visual Novels including free roaming such as Summertime Saga are closer to a video game because you don't just "read", you also explore, play mini games, etc.

How to write a good porn game story?
If the story focus on the relationship between the MC and only one character, it is more or less easy to write a good and consistent story. But it's not enough for the player, he want to be able to fuck other characters, even get their own harem. It's a game, then fuck why not?!

These games are Milfy City, Summertime Saga, Man of the House, etc.

It's easy to complain about the lack of inspiration in these games, but how can you write a believable story about a character targeting all the girls he meet?
On top of that, the players want a "good" character, they don't want to play a character like Max (Big Brother).

Let's imagine an incest porn game : 1 mother, 2 sisters and 1 brother (the MC) living under the same house (yes again ).

How to imagine a believable plot? For what possible reasons the MC would want to fuck, not just one of his sister, but his whole family? Personally, I don't believe that most players really want Incest, what they like is the promiscuity, the taboo and everything that it includes (convince/corrupt the girls, etc.). They dont have in mind their own mother or sisters. But I diverge..

Most of the time in these games there are no reasons. The MC try to fuck all the girls because he can. That's all. Never the MC question himself about it. And more than often, fucking a girl doesn't impact any other relationship. Even in one of my favorite porn game, Milfy City, the whole family never interact with each other.

Some devs use drugs or some supernatural artifices in their games, but lot of players don't like that because they want stories as believable/plausible as possible.

Then what to do?

My opinion is : the plot should focus on the relationship between 2 or 3 characters if you want a serious and believable story. Otherwise, just don't mind the reasons, don't focus too much on "why" the MC should fuck so many girls and how it's possible. Instead you should focus on making your characters believable, give them a personality, a story, etc. and be consistent about their reactions.

What do you guys think about it? What is the solution for a believable porn game story?

I also wonder how should end this kind of games.. I played few "completed" games such as Artifact, Milf Villa, Lucky Mark, etc. but I was often disappointed.
And should a story end once you fucked all the girls?

 

[DawnCry]

I will just tell my own view over it.

Players fear realistic characters, because the more real they are, the less control they have over what happens.

I for example always think about seeds of chaos, it's a game that is supposed to be dark, in which you can take the bad action or try to take the good one and fail. But it just won't happen on sex scenes, every sex scene will only happen if you took the option for it to happen, and this is shared by almost all games.

But then on the other hand I find games that were truly liked like big bang age, sengoku rance that actually don't care about that stuff, characters may die, characters may be raped, in fact in some routes it's unavoidable. See for example the death of Nanjou Ran, the rape of Kouhime... Those are even canon events of sengoku rance!.

And this makes me think... would any creator risk to actually make a game that had unavoidable events like sengoku rance? that you had to rescue a girl before something bad happens? that the bad things don't happen because you chose it to happen, but rather that you failed or your inaction over the issue?.

Having too much control over what happens in a game means that you have to give up things on different aspects. There are conflicts for even the tiniest thing, "hey, that scene has a footjob! what a turn off! make it optional!", "hey, anal sex is disgusting!, it doesn't even feel good in real life!, make it optional!", "hey, there is a futa/trans or perhaps trap character in the game, make it optional!", "hey, I know it's a femdom but strap-on?!, make it optional!".

The lack of tolerance and the need of control is what makes it really hard to make good characters, or rather, believable ones, even more this lack of tolerance is something that limits a game itself. Because even if you do a dominant character, you still get options when she pushes you down or teases you in certain ways (like using her foot or hand on your dick).

There are many interesting concepts that could be done if we stopped caring about making everything an option. But the main thing is that it could add a challenge concept into the game. I'm just one of those guys that believe that you should get the option to get your harem, but you have to earn it!, fail and you will get NTR or perhaps in some games your character will even die.

Having said that, this is just my personal opinnion.

 

[Exu]

First, as DawnCry said, people WILL complain. About everything. Bad story, no story, too much story, they don't like the story, they don't like the MC, they don't like any fuckable character, not enough sex, pointless sex (Ok, only I complain about that), not enough content for the character they fancy NTR, something that is not NTR but they claim to be that, this and that fetish... so it's pointless trying to please everyone, you cannot. And that's how so many games end up being bland or cliche or even cheap clones. And with so many developing titles I can understand why a lot of developers just don't feel like taking the risk of doing something unique, fearing they will lack support, both the moral and the economic kind, even considering niche game devs often are rewarded by their fans, not overly but enough, if they persevere.

Back to the 'story' topic... For starters, writing is hard. Writing several paths, make them cross and colide, checking stats and other variables... and doing it right could easily become a migraine for the dev, and it canevolve into a living nightmare.More often than not, you need a whole well-paid team of devoted and organized writers, and not even Triple-A games actually do that right enough.

But let's say you are determined to make a game focused on the sex content, but at se same time, with a good enough story, and having characters that could feel, not like real people, but real enough. You see, IMO the key word here is 'enough', and that means anything that doesn't break the player suspension of disbelief is good to go. And, while that's not math and every player's threshold will be their own, a lot of that depends of the ground rules the dev set for his/her game. You cannot, for example, pretend to have a realistic world and then having a couple of guys get naked or half naked in plain daylight, in an urban populated setting, attempting to rape a woman because, well... physical vulnerability, witnesses, etc.

My opinion is : the plot should focus on the relationship between 2 or 3 characters if you want a serious and believable story. Otherwise, just don't mind the reasons, don't focus too much on "why" the MC should fuck so many girls and how it's possible. Instead you should focus on making your characters believable, give them a personality, a story, etc. and be consistent about their reactions.

I mostly agree with this. I think you nailed it, even if the nail's head is a little bit crooked, because I wouldn't put the limit on 2 or 3 characters. But hey, maybe is just the non-monogamy talking.

I also wonder how should end this kind of games.. I played few "completed" games such as Artifact, Milf Villa, Lucky Mark, etc. but I was often disappointed.
And should a story end once you fucked all the girls?

'And they lived happily ever after' works in romance stories, because a lasting relationship is fulfilling and somewhat like a goal. 'And they fucked' doesn't work, mainly because when you have sex, you are not continuously having sex non-stop for the years to come, and if the game is full of casual sex and just it, nothing more, the end of the story means the end of sex, and that's a downer, anticlimatic, boring... no, no, forget it. That's not a proper ending, period. Unless you make a 'And they fucked happily ever after', sex is not a proper ending. Fortunately, it's not about the destination, it's about the journey. BUT, we still need some end to a story, and the only conclusion I reach is this: you cannot make a story about some fucking. That's no story. The player must have some goal beside getting laid with several characters a few times, because ironically enough there is no climax there (To the story).
Make the player and the Main Character want something other than sex, and then let them achieve it (Unless she story is a short one about a teenage MC losing his/her virginity, then it can be sex, but only because that changes the character in some way).

Lastly, don't assume MOST people playing incest games don't want incest but only promiscuity. In a game you can have both, none or only one of them. I myself do not want to fuck my relatives but I find fictional incest appealing. There's a reason for people making incest games and people asking for incest patches even if Patreon ban them.

 

[HopesGaming]

There are porn games and then there are adult games.
Porn games the focus is on porn. Adult games can be story-driven with adult elements (be that sex, violence or both).
Player base for both styles and in many cases people enjoy both styles.

I think the complaints from people is not that porn games lack an 'engaging and deep story' but rather they're complaining about character depth. A character does not need to have a deep dark backstory about being locked in an electric cage with no food (what kind of weirdo would write this kind of backstory...) but rather make it engaging. Make players want to learn the character. Feel for the character. Fall in love with the characters. It can even be a silly and nonrealistic character. Just give her/him some depth.
But when they start seeing the same template being used such as ;
The cute little sister, the mean big sister, the doubtful mother, generic mc, generic females, one-dimensional character, and so on- people will complain about the story.

And yeah, as mentioned by the above posts, there will always be douches that complains. I got tons of porn lovers complaining about porn in my adult game. But there is also a lot of adult lovers that go to porn threads and complain about the lack of story which is equally as bad.

 

[woody554]

I know it wasn't the point, but it's funny the examples for 'doing it wrong' are by far the most successful games here. summertime saga, big brother, milfy city, man of the house. all of them have big and obvious problems, but CLEARLY they work for a LOT of people.

about writing a good porn game, for one I don't think you should listen to the audience almost ever. not because your story was a precious piece of art not to be meddled with, but because 99.99% of them have NO IDEA how and WHY stories work. if it were up to them the mc would get everything he wants on page 1 and credits roll. worst story EVER. they don't understand that's the opposite of a good story. and it's not even just the audience, most of the people making the games are equally clueless about stories. don't listen to them, they have no clue. write your own story, you're the expert.


about the actual stories... my theory is that there's a fundamental problem with combining porn and story. they have opposite inner mechanics. an engaging story is all about STOPPING your mc getting what he wants, building up tension with obstacles in his way. where as porn is all about instant gratification, skipping everything that's stopping you from putting some dicks in pussies and having a camera staring right at it under bright lights. so the second you switch from one approach to the other, the other one instantly implodes. the porn removes all tension and tease from the story making it shit, or the story removes all action making people skip text until pussy shows.

so it's an impossible goal to do WELL. you'll never have a nobel-worthy story with sponge-worthy sex, because it can't exist in the universe. no matter how good you are at writing.

yet that's exactly what we're doing here, trying to achieve the impossibiru.

so right from the beginning we must understand that we can't have everything, every porn game is gonna be a compromise between porn & story. if you wanna make the porn better, it'll be at the expense of the story. if you want a better story, it'll be at the expense of the porn. there's no way around it.

but, as it happens we're not the first people trying to pull off the impossible. there's a vast number of smut we call 'erotica' trying to do the same exact thing. and I'm sure there's been tons of attempts at writing more explicit smut with more porn and less skipping over pages, but all of those sank into oblivion far faster than you can even find out about them. what has remained and survived the test of time is the middleground, the shitty cheap erotica. NOBODY thinks they're well written, but they do the job the best mediocre way it's possible to do. (and just as an aside, a LOT of them were written by the esteemed Good academic writers, not just shitty amateurs like us. kafka wrote terrible smut too. didn't make it any better.)

so we already have a formula, the cheap smut. it's not for everyone. the porn fans think it takes way too long getting to the pussy, and the story fans think the characters lack depth and mom sucking her son's dick 'just to help him' is not believable. such is life. shou ga nai.

of course there's also room for the nukige fans who want early sex with as little plot or reason separating cumshots from the faces. but as we're not all on actual porn sites watching real porn clips, I think it's safe to assume most here WANT some plot in their porn. they WANT some obstacles before getting to the juicy stuff, even if they complain and claim the opposite. what they want is to be teased, even if they don't know it. so don't listen to them, make the story count a little. make them wait, make them dream, make them check in for the new update in hopes of 'mom' FINALLY giving it up for the son. that's how you make your story count.

obviously this isn't the same as milking them for patreon money forever. the difference is measured by whether the payoff is worth the wait or not. they will drop you like a cum filled sock and hate you forever if you fail that test. make sure it's worth it and they will love you forever.


(oh, why incest is so massively popular? nothing to do with wanting to fuck your real mom, that's disgusting to 99% of people. doesn't work. BUT the mom in the story is not YOUR mom. it's someone else's mom, feels more like your friend's hot mom. and what makes it hot is that she's unattainable to the mc, the last woman in the world you're supposed to fuck. also the last woman who's supposed to let YOU fuck her. the greatest obstacle. hence also the greatest payoff. don't waste it, don't make her easy. she's the biggest weapon in your dramatic porn game arsenal.)

 

[Bilbael]

Lot of good replies here, thank you guys.

Right now the porn video game genre is still a niche, but I believe that despite being immature it will evolve and get more popular with time. We have here the beginning of the porn video game genre.

Let's discuss about it, let's give real ideas instead of complaining.

I for example always think about seeds of chaos, it's a game that is supposed to be dark, in which you can take the bad action or try to take the good one and fail. But it just won't happen on sex scenes, every sex scene will only happen if you took the option for it to happen, and this is shared by almost all games.

You want the sex scenes to happen whether the player want it or not? And the result of the scene will be based on your succeeded/failed action? I believe lot of porn games follow this idea. Players often complain about the cheap "reward" system.. (get a blowjob for doing the chores).

Personally I think a video game is not a movie or a novel, the players should always have the choice. They never want to be forced. If a character is about to die, they should have the possibility to save this character, except if it serves the story.

You also mentioned Sengoku Rance, I really love this game, but not for its sex scenes. I love this game for the gameplay, the plot and the characters design/stories. There is unavoidable events, like the Shimazu Brothers, but you can prevent it. They warn you few turns before the event that something is about to happen if you don't take action. It is your choice to prevent it or not. The event is forced, not the result.

There are many interesting concepts that could be done if we stopped caring about making everything an option. But the main thing is that it could add a challenge concept into the game. I'm just one of those guys that believe that you should get the option to get your harem, but you have to earn it!, fail and you will get NTR or perhaps in some games your character will even die.

I agree with you, but the player should always have the control of what's happening, except if it serves the story. In some games you make decisions without knowing what impacts they will have later on. It's nice, it's like in real life. But players don't play games to follow the same rules as in real life. They want things to be easier to understand, to control. Real life is already often frustrating. They are fine to be challenged, but it has to be fair.

it's pointless trying to please everyone, you cannot. And that's how so many games end up being bland or cliche or even cheap clones.

I totally agree with you, but it's not that simple.

I am not going to talk about these devs who want to make porn games only for money, milking their Patreons. I am going to talk about the passionate ones.. As I said, the market is still at its beginning, and many devs want to be able to live working on their video game. They feel like they don't have the choice but to follow the demands of their Patreons to survive.

To these devs I want to say : Don't listen too much your Patreons. Check how many Patreons you have and how many remain silent. It's well known that people talk way much more to complain than to praise.

Personally, I would like to see more "niche" stories in our porn video games. Focusing on few "kinks" only. But it's the same problem. Your game must please as much players as possible if you want your project to be viable.

You cannot, for example, pretend to have a realistic world and then having a couple of guys get naked or half naked in plain daylight, in an urban populated setting, attempting to rape a woman because, well... physical vulnerability, witnesses, etc.

True, even if it's a fantasy world the story, the characters and their reactions should remain consistent. It's difficult to immerse the player, but very easy to break the immersion with details.

I mostly agree with this. I think you nailed it, even if the nail's head is a little bit crooked, because I wouldn't put the limit on 2 or 3 characters. But hey, maybe is just the non-monogamy talking.

I meant writing a credible plot, a story can still be good with more characters but if you want your story to be as credible as possible, like real life, then you should limit the number of main characters to fuck.

'And they lived happily ever after' works in romance stories

True!

'And they fucked happily ever after', sex is not a proper ending.

Is also true!

BUT, we still need some end to a story, and the only conclusion I reach is this: you cannot make a story about some fucking. That's no story. The player must have some goal beside getting laid with several characters a few times, because ironically enough there is no climax there (To the story).

It depends what kind of game you want make. If the goal is to fuck as many girls as possible then why not.. there is an old game like that called Bonetown. But in a story driven porn video game, then yes it is hard to make a story about some fucking.

There are two ways to write a story : it can be a plot driven story or character driven story.

- The character driven story focuses on the characters internal change. Basically the character(s) undergo some kind of deep emotional transformation that is life-changing.

- The plot driven story focuses on an external goal. It focuses more on the development of a situation than the internal changes of a character.

Lastly, don't assume MOST people playing incest games don't want incest but only promiscuity. In a game you can have both, none or only one of them. I myself do not want to fuck my relatives but I find fictional incest appealing. There's a reason for people making incest games and people asking for incest patches even if Patreon ban them.

(oh, why incest is so massively popular? nothing to do with wanting to fuck your real mom, that's disgusting to 99% of people. doesn't work. BUT the mom in the story is not YOUR mom. it's someone else's mom, feels more like your friend's hot mom. and what makes it hot is that she's unattainable to the mc, the last woman in the world you're supposed to fuck. also the last woman who's supposed to let YOU fuck her. the greatest obstacle. hence also the greatest payoff. don't waste it, don't make her easy. she's the biggest weapon in your dramatic porn game arsenal.)

I agree with both of you, it's actually what I meant.

But is it really impossible to get the same feeling/sensation in a porn video game where you live with a family but the characters you can interact with are not your relatives?

I think the complaints from people is not that porn games lack an 'engaging and deep story' but rather they're complaining about character depth.

Yes, and unfortunately so many games have "flat" characters in their story (no emotional depth). They feel empty and too much conventional as porn game characters.

I know it wasn't the point, but it's funny the examples for 'doing it wrong' are by far the most successful games here. summertime saga, big brother, milfy city, man of the house. all of them have big and obvious problems, but CLEARLY they work for a LOT of people.

We should not forget that they were here first, they have the trust of their Patreons.

I don't think that they are doing it wrong. Their games have undeniable qualities. We should not forget the main reason people are playing this kind of video game. They want to fap, they want something they can't find in porn videos.

Then what are the players looking for while playing porn video games?

1) Immersion?
Video Games are able to immerse way much more than movies or novels. It has already been stated with the non-porn video games. You control the character, its action, its choices, etc.

This is also why the story and characters consistency is so much important! If you don't, it's an immersion breaker.

2) A deeper story? (than porn videos)

an engaging story is all about STOPPING your mc getting what he wants, building up tension with obstacles in his way. where as porn is all about instant gratification

Exactly!

Players complain for the lack of sex scene, but it's because they are frustrated. Sexual tension has been built and they must wait the next releases before being able to fap. When you are horny, you don't want to wait 1 month. Then what is the solution? None. Just write your story, because they started to play your game for your characters and for the story.

3) Believable characters?
Yes, this is what porn videos are lacking. Even in the "incest" videos, you have difficulties to feel the same connection with the character that you may have with a character in a porn video game. Then make them alive!

4) Pretty graphics?
Yes.. it can't be as good as a porn but it should be pleasant to watch. You can even notice that the most popular games have some of the best looking characters/graphics and animation.

5) Kinks?
Of course, they want to find kinks that are not available elsewhere. And a video game can give more details, make it more immersive than porn videos. But there are too many different kinks, then don't put them all in your game. Just make them credible in your story.

 

[SeventhVixen]

Nice discussion, touching very important topics, it's been a while.

Even inside discrepancies, there is truth to all said (and there is discrepancies because there are many visions of what should be what, and personal preferences)

Lately I feel like I'm making quite a strange game...
All background and story (even MC), Gameplay mechanics, high in choices (and buckloads of coding to support it u_U) a non sexual Main story, with some plot related main sexual/romantic conquers, but a lot of lesser sidefucks for instant gratification, (theme supported) with their own lesser progression...

Every time I read a long post of someone talking about what theoretical type of game will be, my conclusion is that he would like and despise my game at the same time if he were to play xD Is not here, not there.

Thing is, from the beginning to now (8 months and 4200 lines of dialogue down the road), I've been always just making the game I wanted to make and I could care less of about what's popular or whatnots. (damn, I must not even played more than 10 games with story/VN's wathever.)
I'll be fine with the people that like it the way I like it. I'm not making the game to appease the people that will not like it (This seems obvious, but is not for some people that want to make games to gain money/be popular or because they think the more the following the better the game).

There is people on the world that is capable to do things they don't feel like it, hypocrisy, falsehood, scams... There is people like this in every aspect of life, and you know it, and sure know personally one or two. In videogames too (too many assets flips...and some AAA...), and by percentage they should by in the adult gaming too. People that just try to appeal to everyone, make some bucks and later banish or just piss off everyone.

So my advise to the Junior-Dev out there reading:
Just do wathever the fuck you want to do, because there are out there people like you that will like it. Don't try to appeal everyone, or you'll end hating it.

PS: And some of my favourite "porn games" to play in existence are the fast fucks from Bambook... But is not the same the adult game I want to make that the game I like to play for a fap.

 

[DawnCry]

You want the sex scenes to happen whether the player want it or not? And the result of the scene will be based on your succeeded/failed action? I believe lot of porn games follow this idea. Players often complain about the cheap "reward" system.. (get a blowjob for doing the chores).

Personally I think a video game is not a movie or a novel, the players should always have the choice. They never want to be forced. If a character is about to die, they should have the possibility to save this character, except if it serves the story.

You also mentioned Sengoku Rance, I really love this game, but not for its sex scenes. I love this game for the gameplay, the plot and the characters design/stories. There is unavoidable events, like the Shimazu Brothers, but you can prevent it. They warn you few turns before the event that something is about to happen if you don't take action. It is your choice to prevent it or not. The event is forced, not the result.



I agree with you, but the player should always have the control of what's happening, except if it serves the story. In some games you make decisions without knowing what impacts they will have later on. It's nice, it's like in real life. But players don't play games to follow the same rules as in real life. They want things to be easier to understand, to control. Real life is already often frustrating. They are fine to be challenged, but it has to be fair.

Missed the point of what I said. I don't say that sex scenes should happen as you said even worse as cheap rewards, what I'm saying is that related to the story you find 3 types of sex scenes:

-Scenes that are unavoidable: It can be as part of the story or because you had to take a special action to prevent it before.

-Scenes that are avoidable: Even if the scene start you can evade it if you have enough strength, agility... basically the so called stat checks.

-Scenes that are optional: This ones are the consensual ones or when the player is in control of the sex scene.

What I'm saying is, depending on circunstances the scenes shouldn't be avoided.

Going to sengoku rance you just manipulated it mate, I talked about story elements such as the rape of Kouhime and the death of Nanjou Ran but you just ignored those just to talk about the avoidable ones that I didn't even say in my message. In the cases I say, the event IS forced and the outcome TOO. It's part of the story.

A player shouldn't have control of what's happening, he should have the control to REACT to it. For example the capture situation of Uesugi Kenshin on sengoku Rance, are you able to rescue her on time? that's the control you have. This is the difference between a nukige and an adult game.

And well about the type of games you think people want... everyone has personal opinions, I for example want a challenging game with h content. That's why my favourite game was kichikuou rance, which was incredibly successful in it's time but that's exactly the opposite of what you say.

So my advise to the Junior-Dev out there reading:
Just do wathever the fuck you want to do, because there are out there people like you that will like it. Don't try to appeal everyone, or you'll end hating it.

This is actually so true. Every creator should be free to do whatever they want with their story, characters or whatever, I kind of would like to see more unique games, with the soul that the developer puts into it.

 

[Fasder]

People don't like shitty stories, a lot of people play these games for the story, although, not exclusively.
Now I don't think anyone here actually knows why or how some things work, because there are outliers.

My game starts out pretty plain, the MC seems pretty normal, the side characters seem pretty plain etc, etc, just like how it is in real life.
The further you get into the game, the more you learn about the characters as their story arcs unfold. Some might say this is poor design or story telling, I'm not sure it really is although I certainly could've made some improvements to make the story more appealing from the start, but where's the fun in that?
Why I'm even talking about this is because I've tried and I think to a degree succeeded to make a game that balance some pretty depraved porn and realistic characters, as well as an overarching story that relates to the theme of the game.
Now, I make very polarizing material and I'm aware not everyone likes big balloon tits (believe me I've been told how aweful people think they look multiple times), hard sci-fi elements set in a moderately grindy sandbox game, but does that really make the game bad?
It might not be as popular as other games, but I do think I've made a pretty good game and I think most of my fans would agree. Now good does not mean popular, nor does popular mean good, but it seems to be the most common way of measuring quality.

I'm still not quite sure what makes a game good, is it being different? Is it about certain fetishes? Is it about game design? Is it about an interesting story? Is it about the writing? Is it luck?
It's probably a bit of everything, but I still don't think anyone actually knows what it is that makes any given adult game better than the next.

Now I admit that I only skimmed a few comments in the thread and skipped a few so if I'm just reiterating what other people have said, then my apologies.

 

[Bilbael]

So my advise to the Junior-Dev out there reading:
Just do wathever the fuck you want to do, because there are out there people like you that will like it. Don't try to appeal everyone, or you'll end hating it.

Just like DawnCry said : its so true. Don't mind what is written here or any other thread about what is a good/bad game, we all have a different opinion about it, the most important is that you take pleasure making your game.

Missed the point of what I said.

My bad. What you wrote is actually more or less what I think too.

You mentioned Kouhime and Nanjou Ran, I agree with you, some scenes should be unavoidable if it serves the story. Likewise with what you said about Uesugi Kenshin, I agree with you, and it's more or less what I said, but maybe I was not clear. Sorry.

Before F95Zone, I played a bunch of translated games such as Sengoku Rance, Daibanchou Big Bang Age, Eien no Aselia, Kamidori Alchemy Meister, etc. really good games. But when I started this thread I was not thinking about this kind of Japanese games. I was more talking about games such as Milfy City, Summertime Saga, etc.

I'm still not quite sure what makes a game good, is it being different? Is it about certain fetishes? Is it about game design? Is it about an interesting story? Is it about the writing? Is it luck?
It's probably a bit of everything, but I still don't think anyone actually knows what it is that makes any given adult game better than the next.

You are right. And there is as much different opinions about it than there is players.

 

[woody554]

about having an ending. obviously if you actually want to tell a specific story it should probably have an ending. a beginning, a middle and an ending. but there are other options too. like if you think about coen brothers movies, they almost NEVER have an ending, yet they're amazing.

also if you think about how most games here are done, more or less writing it as you go one update at a time, that reminds me a lot of soap operas. which makes me think that the kind of an infinitely unfolding story could be totally fine for a porn game as well. just keep adding to the old one update after another, lets see where the characters get in 5, 10, 20 years. it could actually even be quite epic. and I'm sure such a game would gather a loyal fan base.

but when I think about the games with an alternate non-sex plot, they do seem to often suffer greatly from the porn vs story problem. it's incredibly hard to stay interested in a mob story or the mystery of your missing father when you know you could be home trying to slip it into you mom. the mob story excitement just can't compete with your more basic sexual drivers. once the pussy is on the table it's difficult to not think about it.

I'm not sure what the solution there actually is, but I suspect the other story maybe MUST be somehow related to your sexual goals to keep the interest. however tenuous the relation might be. 'where your heart is' seems to have some success in the dead dad throwing curve balls at your sex life. in 'long live the princess' you stay interested in the coronation plot because obviously you're gonna get to fuck the princess somehow. but usually the second someone mentions the mob or any other clearly unrelated side plot my skipping finger gets very very itchy.

 

[Stronkboi]

I somehow agree with you OP.

And that's how I made my game, before making a good "porn game" I wanted a good game, a good story.
"Came for the tits, stayed for the story" basically.

On my opinion, sex in a romance game is basically normal.
Sex is part of life, it's part of love and it should be incorporated as a part of love in a game.

To have a good story, I usually setup multiple point of view to my story for it to be reletable, understandable, give the player a feeling beyond the need to nut.

Basically, I would call a game, story wise good, when I boot it up without jamming my meat or without feeling the need to do it.
Just booting the game the same way I start The Witcher 3 or Mass effect 2 or any other game really.

As for the question at the end of the post.
No, The story should end when it reaches at point where an end would make sense.
Now there are two schools, games where the main goal is to fuck every character, basic Trainer games basically.
And games with more meat when it comes to the scenario, where the plot is bigger than putting your dong in x or y's moist hole.

I used to skip a lot of dialogue when I was a player, since I became a dev I learned to read and take my time and I found good games that inspired me for mine and inspired me as a person.

 

[khumak]

For me what matters more is whether there are interesting things going on. It doesn't have to be sex, it can be some sort of investigation or a fight scene or whatever where I'm actually doing something. I'm fine with reading backstory and dialog as well but if I spend the majority of the game doing nothing but just reading dialog that can get old unless the writing is MUCH better than is typical for an adult game.

I also take issue with excessive grinding that doesn't have any real purpose. I'm fine with a stat system or the idea of having to earn some money to do something or whatever, but if I'm repeating basically the same day over and over for weeks and weeks of in game time in between each new plotpoint, I'm going to get bored and just hang it up or find a cheat mod to skip the grind.

 

[DeadPotato]

"Came for the tits, stayed for the story" basically.

Just wanna say, nice play on words right there.

 

[polywog]

I found this site that might be helpful for some devs.

You must be registered to see the links

You must be registered to see the links

You must be registered to see the links

 

[hottarod]

Most of the time in these games there are no reasons. The MC try to fuck all the girls because he can. That's all. Never the MC question himself about it. And more than often, fucking a girl doesn't impact any other relationship. Even in one of my favorite porn game, Milfy City, the whole family never interact with each other.

I have only run 2 erotic content 3d graphic visual stories(thats what I call them). I just finished the 0.6C level of Milfy City which is the second one of these things I have ever run through.

Having some background in the ologies(sociology and psychology), you are right about Milfy City. It is almost a textbook example of a completely dysfunctional family from a family perspective and the program shows a lot of the consequences that can come with that. Incest, believe it or not, is often a consequence in real life whether it is voluntary or forced. Alcoholism and abusive personal relationships(Caroline, the eldest sybling for example) is also one. Caroline is so messed up that she can't have or is unwilling to even try to have a personal relationship with any man any more due to her past relationship choices and trust issues. Spouses cheating on each other often out of revenge is one(Linda). The patriarch of this dysfunctional mess is very often aloof and separate and is in his own world that doesn't include his family and may be oblivious to the damage he is helping to cause(that is the dad figure). It is also generational and Linda most likely came from a dysfunctional family and most likely was molested incestually as a young girl herself. In the storyline, she admits to watching her son grow up and she has fantasized about him for a long time.

Children are typically emotionally abandoned and as they grow up they desperately search for love anywhere(Sarah and the MC). They often use sex which isn't necessarily love(the MC and Sarah in particular and very likely Caroline in her past). The children of a dysfunctional family often have moral compasses that are all screwed up and it also is typical of the whole family. The MC is a particular example of this when he is having sex with his sisters and mother and any other girl or woman he can. He is drawn to mother figures and in general, desperate for acceptance from girls and women. He betrays his father through corporate espionage which is a felony and starts blackmailing a teacher because she rejected him(also a felony). The MC is breaking into houses and sneaking into girls/womens rooms at night and molesting them in their sleep(also a felony). He discovers his head master is a drug king pin and vows to keep his secret even after seeing the guy abusing a school girl from his school. That makes him complicit in multiple felonies.

In running this program, if your conscience was not conflicted at times over the MC's actions and things you had to do to complete the story line, I would say there is something wrong with you.

Believe it or not, there is a lot more of this sort of thing going on or going on to some degree in real life than most people are aware of or perhaps, admit to. I almost think that the story writer/author of this program is a psychologist or sociologist or has been someone that has worked in this field before. Almost ironically, we see a school therapist who would typically be a sociologist or sometimes a psychologist in this story. She knows the MC's mother and is aware of the MC's uncontrollable attraction to older women. There is a story line in this that has not yet been included in the program. I guess we will eventually find out what the author has in mind for that.

On the other hand, it is just a work of fiction designed for entertainment, LOL. I guess I should mention that I have been a professional analyst in my past .

postscript: I didn't write this to be critical of the program but to simply point out that there is a lot more going on under the surface than what you see depicted or at least, that is what I read into it.

 

[anne O'nymous]

There are porn games and then there are adult games.

From my point of view, all is said with this single sentence.

People should stop imagining that all games here will be porn games ; there's even few that don't have sexual content at all, just few nudity.
And when they are effectively real porn games, which isn't this frequent in fact, then... Well, why expecting more than for porn movies ? The story will always be limited to the strict minimum.

 

[khumak]

From my point of view, all is said with this single sentence.

People should stop imagining that all games here will be porn games ; there's even few that don't have sexual content at all, just few nudity.
And when they are effectively real porn games, which isn't this frequent in fact, then... Well, why expecting more than for porn movies ? The story will always be limited to the strict minimum.

I think the reason most of the games on here are fairly lacking in some aspects is the fact that most individual devs are not simultaneously a good writer, a good coder, and a good renderer. Most of them are probably good at one of those and mediocre at best in the other 2. Shoring up your weaknesses if you don't have a team takes time. This is compounded for some devs by not being a native english speaker so they need a translator as well.

I've seen some "games" on here that are really just illustrated novels. There aren't any real choices so it's not really even a game. If your "choice" basically just amounts to "click here to continue" then it's not a choice. That's fine if the dev is a good writer, but don't bother with the "choices" in that case. A VN without choices is really just an illustrated short story or a digital comic book, which is fine if the writing is good. I like books and comics. The writing in most of the games on this site is not of that caliber though so IMO unless you really are a good writer, it really needs to be more about the gameplay or the visuals. I would guess that most of these types of games are made by devs who are primarily writers with minimal skills at coding and/or rendering.

On the other side of the spectrum I've also seen quite a few games on here that are really just a series of choices to "click here to see next animation" and those are more like a slide show of animations than a game. That might work for some people I guess. This is what we get when a dev is good at rendering and animations but has little to no skill at writing or coding. Personally, I would rather just watch real porn with real actors if there's no story or gameplay. Most of these games I can complete successfully by just holding down the control key and clicking on whatever the top choice is any time there is one and without any meaningful story or gameplay elements that's what I end up doing. Some of these games I literally end up playing start to finish in like 10 minutes. I see the animations and then I'm done, don't even know who the characters are.

Then we have games that have lots of mini games and puzzles and stuff that are probably fun to write the code for but then minimal story or dialog and probably mediocre renders. These are the guys that are primarily programmers with minimal skill at writing or rendering. I would say these are probably the least common but I have seen some that basically amount to a linked series of puzzles or mini games that reward you with a render or animation for completing them. The story is irrelevant, you just have to complete minigames.

The better games are done by either a team or by a more well rounded dev who is at least reasonably good at all 3 of the above. Personally, I haven't tried to do my own game yet. Still just modding, but I know for sure that my skills at animation are not up to snuff. I can do some simplistic ones but they mostly suck. The other stuff I've been improving at through practice but I'm not sure I'll ever be good at animations.

Personally, I think good writing skills are probably harder to develop than coding or rendering. I can't begin to count the number of games where I just found myself holding down the control key after deciding that the story is boring or really poorly written. By contrast, a good story just pulls me right into it and I end up spending hours reading all of the dialog and actually being interested in whatever backstory or quests the dev has set up. I'm not really even sure how to put my finger on what makes it a good story but the difference is night and day and I'm pretty sure my own skill as a writer is not at that level.

 

[desmosome]

You make some good points, and I thing you hit the mark with your definitions of adult and porn games.

I tend to just categorize games like this though:
Porn games = lets me bust a nut
Adult games = Sexual themes + great story/characters/writing or rarely gameplay
Trash games = everything that doesn't fit into the above two categories

Adult games live and die by the story and characters. The game needs to have a very interesting hook, or great dialogue and characters. Porn games, in my opinion, depend entirely on the fetishes. The more depraved it is, the better. Incest is an extremely mundane fetish to me (when its just vanilla incest), but it seems to be enough for lots of people seeing as Milfy City, Man of the House, Summertime saga are among the most popular.

Its incredibly rare for porn games to have an engaging story. In fact, the discrepency between porn and adult games is so large that I don't even whip out my dick when playing things like BaDIK, CoBD, Acting Lessons, DeLuca Family, etc etc. They can edge you a bit towards release, but that's about it. We play these games for the story. The sexy ladies are just a very nice bonus. Porn games, on the other hand, are nothing if they can't get you to cum. Real hardcore fetishes or some power fantasy helps a lot in this regard. Needs good writing during sex scenes. None of that Ahh... ahh... harder.. Ohhh!

I wrote all this but realized it probably doesn't make any sense and "lets me bust a nut" is probably not a very universally applicable criteria lol.

 

[anne O'nymous]

I think the reason most of the games on here are fairly lacking in some aspects is the fact that most individual devs are not simultaneously a good writer, a good coder, and a good renderer. [...] This is compounded for some devs by not being a native english speaker so they need a translator as well.

More than the start of the paragraph, I think that the main problem is its end.
If he give it enough time and attention, anyone can write a story coherent enough to be a little above the actual average... but in his native language. Doing it in English (for a none native speaker) is something totally different.
We aren't talking about a discussion on a forum, there's many tricks that can't be used ; like rephrasing all your thought to use words that you know, by example. We are talking about a story, where, "you look beautiful", isn't the same thing than, "this dress really highlight your body".
If some stories feel flat, it's mostly because of the limited English skills of the author. The premise is here, the characters seem to have an effective personality, but when they talk there's no emotions, and it kill everything.
And writing in your native language then translating in English is generally even worse. Too many devs do it too literally, and not only the characters are still deprived of any feelings, but they also become some kind of robot. They not only have a cold heart, but also a mechanical brain.