Question about narration in a femdom game with a deep psychological element

[LAKueiJin]

In a hypothetical choice-driven femdom VN, where the point is that the player has control over the protagonist's personality (like in Nothing is Forever - the protagonist isn't a blank slate and he has been shaped by his background and the in-universe culture, but the player can take MC's personality in different directions), would you prefer 1st or 2nd person narration? Which one would feel more natural and immersive to you? 3rd is not an option, as in most of the game the desired effect would be to place the player in the protag's mind, to hear their thought monologues, their fears, their suspicions, to experience MC's relationship with the domme (and later dommes) as closely as the medium allows.

Thing is, my gut instinct is to go against common wisdom and use 2nd person narration the same way some adventure games do, as even the most commonly given reasons by people that universally dislike it are things such as "it feels overly intrusive" or "it makes me think half the time about how I would think and act differently", and the second one is certainly a valid criticism (I have PTSD from protagonists doing dumb unavoidable stuff in porn games , like the Moving Down "loan", but more seriously speaking even a VN with hundreds of branching paths by a great author will still obviously not give the player the option to act exactly as they would many many times), but if the point of the VN is to put the player on the spot, to make them feel vulnerable, exposed, cornered in a position where they cannot escape the domme's grasp, (she is a powerful centuries-old mage in a fantasy universe) in a psycho-erotically stimulating way, I feel like 2nd person achieves this better.

Obvs it might still feel too intrusive and too much like it's telling you what you think and feel for some people - in my case I tend to like this in erotica if I at least somewhat identify with MC, but others might be different, hence the poll. So, what do you think? Would you enjoy this kind of game more if narrated from 1st or 2nd person, and would either option be too much of a turn off for you to enjoy the story? If so, why? Any comments and votes are appreciated, as I really want to hear some fresh perspectives on this.

 

[Mister_M]

I really want to hear some fresh perspectives

No fresh perspectives from me I'm afraid 2nd person is the only person! (OK, I can stomach 1st one, but I do prefer 2nd).

 

[Leo Humilis]

No fresh perspectives from me I'm afraid 2nd person is the only person! (OK, I can stomach 1st one, but I do prefer 2nd).

Same! I would find 1st person narration kind of unnatural for an interactive VN.

 

[desmosome]

2nd person is the most intimate for rolepalying/self-inserting. YOU are the MC, according to the narration.

1st person can be conductive to roleplaying or self-inserting as well, but it's the player's own willingness to put themselves in the MC's place. 1st person can also easily be played without self-inserting and treating the MC as just another character from whose POV the story is being told.

3rd person more conductive to non-self-inserting.

1st person casts the widest net, so I suppose it's more commonly used in VNs. But if you really want players to get into the protag's mind, 2nd person is effective. It's commonly used in CYOA and cRPG stories, after all.

Edit:
Just as an example, let's talk about female protagonist game to really highlight the differences.

As a male player, you could easy enjoy a third person telling of a FMC story. A first person narration for FMC would put the reader closer to the mind of the FMC. You get the inner workings of her thought process in a more intimate setting. Now, if it's told in 2nd person, you could start getting a bit of dissonance. "YOU feel the big meaty cock going down your throat." Excuse me? Bro, I didn't sign up for this. Of course, as a very flexible reader, I don't really mind 2nd person FMC either. Just because the narration is saying "you" doesn't mean I have to consider the MC to be me. But others might not be able to do the same. And regardless of what the reader can do, there is a natural fit for different types of stories and characters involved.

When you use 2nd person, you are really banking on the reader identifying with the POV character. If the POV character is a psychopathic rapist, a lot of people would not appreciate 2nd person POV lol. Similarly, in a femdom game, you are zeroing in on the true femdom enjoyers if you use 2nd person narration. Although I don't know why non-femdom enjoyers would play femdom game in the first place and then complain about 2nd person narration lol.

 

[Sunshaded]

Initially, I actually typed up a few paragraphs on why they're about the same but 2nd person might be a little better.

But that was just me looking at the poll itself before reading your post itself! In an abstract context, I do think 2nd person has its strengths, but specifically for a VN? I believe 1st person and 3rd person are most suitable. It's so rare to see any modern VNs (ancient point-and-click adventure games excepted) attempt 2nd person.

2nd person can seem like a natural fit when you have a lot of narrative text about actions the player is taking, like wearing clothes, picking up an object, and so on, and the narrator is frequently prompting the player to make various choices on how to handle situations. So it's a solid choice for Twine/RAGS-type sandbox gameplay. And of course, it works particularly well if the protagonist is silent. But I'm not sure it offers advantages for a VN which is dialogue-heavy in the first place.

Bottom line, though, is that you can write sexy pose in both 1st person (see: many erotica) and 2nd person (see: Corruption of Champions). So you should just write whichever one you feel more comfortable with. I picked "1st person narration (but 2nd also works for me)" in my poll.

if the point of the VN is to put the player on the spot, to make them feel vulnerable, exposed, cornered in a position where they cannot escape the domme's grasp, (she is a powerful centuries-old mage in a fantasy universe) in a psycho-erotically stimulating way, I feel like 2nd person achieves this better.

Interesting! So in your mind, you kind of feel like the game itself is being more confrontational or somehow helping you self-insert more by saying "you [x]" huh. My cognitive impression of the game is roughly the same way across perspectives; I know that the narrator is just a tool and quickly adapt to 1st/2nd/3rd, so it's the vividness of the prose and how well its seamlessly paints a picture of what's happening that lets me self-insert better.

 

[Living In A Lewd World]

I'm absolutely no fan of 2nd person-narration. This doesn't work for me in written stories at all and would probably also not work in a VN. I usually lay 2nd-person stories aside after reading some paragraphs as I can't get into the story. It does rather feel like someone trying hypnosis on me than myself diving into the life of the protagonist.

 

[LAKueiJin]

Initially, I actually typed up a few paragraphs on why they're about the same but 2nd person might be a little better.

But that was just me looking at the poll itself before reading your post itself! In an abstract context, I do think 2nd person has its strengths, but specifically for a VN? I believe 1st person and 3rd person are most suitable. It's so rare to see any modern VNs (ancient point-and-click adventure games excepted) attempt 2nd person.

2nd person can seem like a natural fit when you have a lot of narrative text about actions the player is taking, like wearing clothes, picking up an object, and so on, and the narrator is frequently prompting the player to make various choices on how to handle situations. So it's a solid choice for Twine/RAGS-type sandbox gameplay. And of course, it works particularly well if the protagonist is silent. But I'm not sure it offers advantages for a VN which is dialogue-heavy in the first place.

Bottom line, though, is that you can write sexy pose in both 1st person (see: many erotica) and 2nd person (see: Corruption of Champions). So you should just write whichever one you feel more comfortable with. I picked "1st person narration (but 2nd also works for me)" in my poll.


Interesting! So in your mind, you kind of feel like the game itself is being more confrontational or somehow helping you self-insert more by saying "you [x]" huh. My cognitive impression of the game is roughly the same way across perspectives; I know that the narrator is just a tool and quickly adapt to 1st/2nd/3rd, so it's the vividness of the prose and how well its seamlessly paints a picture of what's happening that lets me self-insert better.

Thank you for sharing your in-depth perspective! My cognitive impression of a game is not too significantly alterered by narrative perspective either and certainly the vividness of the prose, the consistency and depth of characters, and all of those things, matter more, but the reason I asked this is that, as I said in the OP, my gut instinct was to go for 2nd person, as I feel the intrussiveness of it could help create the kind of atmosphere I wanted to foster, but 2nd person narration far from the only way to achieve that, and, judging not just by your opinion but also the poll results themselves, I am happy I asked this before writting too much extra plot in ren'py.

I'm absolutely no fan of 2nd person-narration. This doesn't work for me in written stories at all and would probably also not work in a VN. I usually lay 2nd-person stories aside after reading some paragraphs as I can't get into the story. It does rather feel like someone trying hypnosis on me than myself diving into the life of the protagonist.

Thanks for being the only one of the 7 people with your opinion that bothered to leave a comment! That said, I'm a bit curious - what's so magical about the words "you" and "your" that make you feel that way?

As in, the way I experience any novel or VN is that I try to put myself in the shoes of the protagonist and perceive the world as they would, from their perspective, (so fully cognisant that I am role-playing as being someone else, not just self-inserting) even more so if it's an erotic one, so would narration that describes how you feel or what is being done to you not aid in this process of immersion? In attempting to identify with MC? Or at the very least be neutral and just like a 1st person narrative voice?

What is it that gives it a hypnotic quality? Does it feel too much like the narrator is this unnatural entity that talks directly to you and breaks the 4th wall or knows all of the protagonist's inner thoughts and feelings? Or is it something else?

 

[Living In A Lewd World]

Thanks for being the only one of the 7 people with your opinion that bothered to leave a comment! That said, I'm a bit curious - what's so magical about the words "you" and "your" that make you feel that way?

As in, the way I experience any novel or VN is that I try to put myself in the shoes of the protagonist and perceive the world as they would, from their perspective, (so fully cognisant that I am role-playing as being someone else, not just self-inserting) even more so if it's an erotic one, so would narration that describes how you feel or what is being done to you not aid in this process of immersion? In attempting to identify with MC? Or at the very least be neutral and just like a 1st person narrative voice?

I think, I see myself mostly as a person close to the protagonist, looking them over their shoulder, witnessing their personality and life through their actions and reactions soaking in their fears and joys, ups and downs kind of first hand maybe as a silent part of them but not really as them and thus developing some kind of a relationship with the protagonist for the moment I read, that can evoke and involve total different feelings. And I think, this just doesn't work with a 2nd person-narrator, when an author's voice tells me, that I should be the protagonist, as I never see myself as them.

What is it that gives it a hypnotic quality? Does it feel too much like the narrator is this unnatural entity that talks directly to you and breaks the 4th wall or knows all of the protagonist's inner thoughts and feelings? Or is it something else?

I might have exaggerated this quite a bit, but what a 2nd-person-narrator as you describe feels to me is basically as if someone trys to persuade me as the reader to be someone else. That's why I used the word hypnotic. When you look in adult literature, you find also actually lots of "hypnotic scripts", that are written in 2nd-person.

 

[LAKueiJin]

I think, I see myself mostly as a person close to the protagonist, looking them over their shoulder, witnessing their personality and life through their actions and reactions soaking in their fears and joys, ups and downs kind of first hand maybe as a silent part of them but not really as them and thus developing some kind of a relationship with the protagonist for the moment I read, that can evoke and involve total different feelings. And I think, this just doesn't work with a 2nd person-narrator, when an author's voice tells me, that I should be the protagonist, as I never see myself as them.

I might have exaggerated this quite a bit, but what a 2nd-person-narrator as you describe feels to me is basically as if someone trys to persuade me as the reader to be someone else. That's why I used the word hypnotic. When you look in adult literature, you find also actually lots of "hypnotic scripts", that are written in 2nd-person.

That all sounds reasonable, and it's pretty clear from the results that you're not the only one who thinks like this. Enjoy the rest of your week and thanks for clarifying!