Ren'Py Question About the Legality of Using Song Lyrics in My VN

[Lucky13guy]

Apologies if this is the wrong place to ask. If there is a better location to post this, please let me know.

Anyway, I've been slowly working on a story that I plan to turn into a VN with Ren'Py. I'm toying with the idea of having the MC listen to music every morning in the shower. I know I can't use actual songs unless I pay for the license or I use something royalty free, but I'm curious about song lyrics. Basically, depending on the current mood of the story, I want to have MC sing along to certain parts of songs to try and help convey the overall message. If life is crap, it will be something dark and depressing. If something great just happened, the song would be more happy and uplifting. I don't want to use entire songs, but rather, just a few verses for each scene that I'm using lyrics in.

So, my question is this: Is there anyone out there that can shed some light on the legality of using well-known song lyrics in a VN? Also, does anyone feel that using song lyrics in VNs is helpful, or detrimental to the overall story, or would it depend on their usage?

Any help/feedback would be appreciated.

Thanks!
Lucky13guy

 

[GNVE]

Yeah still copyrighted so you'd still need to buy a licence. I think there have been lawsuits over this between lyric-sites and rightsholders but I am too lazy to look it up right now.
What I intend to do is to use folk songs that are in the public domain. The house of the rising sun, When the saints go marching in and The wild rover are just a few of the songs that are very popular and recognizable but in the public domain.
Using song lyrics can be helpful but it will always depend on the use.

 

[Lucky13guy]

Thank you for the feedback, GNVE. I kinda figured that would be the case, but I had to ask, since I don't know anything about copyright laws, or even looking them up. Well, I guess I'll have to make up my own lyrics, or have the MC doing an inner monologue instead. Not the end of the world.

 

[Saki_Sliz]

yeah, i know fanficition will take down any story with more than 3 words of a song, you can still find older fics that passed under the radar, but it is something they heavily moderate due to the copyright risk being real. I think right now there is debated precidence that something as simple as a 3 note melody can be copyright protected, debated because 3 notes is so simple it runs the risk that people start copyrighting the fundamental of music, kind of like how you can't say a trademarked name without paying royalties.

However, what may work is songs from youtubers. basically looking for either royalty free songs, or songs where the artist basically self publishes. the latter still risky. if you want to be safe it is possible to find 'collections' that you can buy and use royalty free, but i don't know what the proper search term is.

 

[osanaiko]

I am not a lawyer etc. buuuuut under US copyright law (and most other countries due to treaties etc) there is provision for "fair use derivative works". It could be argued that having a character in a new work speak a short section of lyrics from a well known song falls within fair use, especially if it is either incidental to the work and not used to promote it, or if the words trigger some sort of plot-relevant discussions or events.

Another thing to keep in mind is the likelyhood of anyone who gives a shit ever coming across your usage of the lyrics - it's not gonna be automatically searchable like a text post on the interwebs. Unless your game becomes $$$ successful and widely distributed, such as via steam, there's little chance of the usage being discovered by the rights-holder's enforcement agent.

Out of all the things I'd be worried about in making a an adult game, song lyrics are one of the smallest.

 

[GNVE]

I am not a lawyer etc. buuuuut under US copyright law (and most other countries due to treaties etc) there is provision for "fair use derivative works". It could be argued that having a character in a new work speak a short section of lyrics from a well known song falls within fair use, especially if it is either incidental to the work and not used to promote it, or if the words trigger some sort of plot-relevant discussions or events.

Another thing to keep in mind is the likelyhood of anyone who gives a shit ever coming across your usage of the lyrics - it's not gonna be automatically searchable like a text post on the interwebs. Unless your game becomes $$$ successful and widely distributed, such as via steam, there's little chance of the usage being discovered by the rights-holder's enforcement agent.

Out of all the things I'd be worried about in making a an adult game, song lyrics are one of the smallest.

There are a few problems with this approach:
- The music industry is famously litigious
- There are multiple lawsuits surrounding happy birthday alone
- Winning a lawsuit in copyright law takes over 20K in lawyer fees to get to that point losing it will be a multiple of that.
- you can use bots etc to scour the internet. Also I'm sure someone can report your game.

Fair use is great but it is a defence. You need to prove it in court on an individual basis. And as stated lawyers are expensive. If you want to go down this road I'd read at least a lot of cases pertaining to this and see if you are on the correct side of the line. Maybe pay a lawyer to talk about how far you can go.
But still I'd use public domain songs which is safe to do and well recognizable (Oh and Happy Birthday is in the Public domain now so no worries about that one anymore).

 

[anne O'nymous]

[Note: I'm not a lawyer, just someone with some knowledge regarding the subject, this isn't a legal advice]

- There are multiple lawsuits surrounding happy birthday alone

This is the biggest scam from the music industry. For decades, an US music publisher claimed property, and acted as right owner, for lyrics that were released in the late 19th century, in a book, and in public domain. And it's only mid 2010's that their claim was proved, and judged, as totally invalid.

Fair use is great but it is a defence. You need to prove it in court on an individual basis.

It's what I dislike the most in the US justice system, their tendency to force you to prove your innocence, when it should be the opposite, like it is in most European countries.


This being said, you are right on the fact that fair use don't apply for song lyrics. Or, more precisely, that it's really difficult to make it apply for lyrics, especially when the rights owners is a major company, and even more when it's an US one and the trial is in the US.
The main problem isn't that song lyrics are an exception to fair use, but that they are something really short, and the rights owners are real sharks. Lyrics being rarely above 50 lines, quoting a single line already represent more than 2% of the creation, and if it's part of the chorus it can easily goes up to 10% or more. This is obviously too much of the content for fair use. But in the same time, this rarely apply for poetry. Poems are generally shorter than lyrics, yet you can quote verse without real problem.

But where you are wrong is on the strength with which rights owners enforce their rights. Around half of the games here quotes lyrics. And so far none have had problems because of this. What doesn't mean that it's legal, just that major companies are really sharks. It would cost them more to sue the indie author of an adult game, than they'll earn back even if he past all his life paying.
That's why the copyright respect is generally enforced by the hosting sites themselves (as Saki_sliz said above). Because they would be sued for hosting your creation, and them have the money.
But this don't mean that one can use lyrics in his game, just that the risk is smaller than you present them ; but it still exist.

 

[Lucky13guy]

Wow. Thanks, everyone! You've all given me a lot to think about.

It could be that I'm just being overly cautious, but this being my first foray into VN writing, or really, writing in general, I don't want to get in over my head.

Also, when did "Happy Birthday" become public domain? I know I could look it up, but I'm trying to interact. Lol. But that song is actually the biggest reason I even asked the question. I remember growing up and hearing stories of people and restaurants getting sued for using it.

 

[anne O'nymous]

Also, when did "Happy Birthday" become public domain?

Well, it's a bit complex.
Strictly speaking, in Europe, it ended in 2017. But technically speaking it always have been in public domain due to the way it was initially released. What expired in 2017 was the owner rights, what is a bit different ; in regard to most European Laws, the fact that you renounce to apply your rights do not mean that you loose them. In the USA it was one year before, after an interesting lawsuit that uncovered the scam.
Wikipedia will told you more

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; both regarding the fact that it was always in public domain, and about the lawsuit.