Questions about starting a carrer on game development.

[Kaeris]

So I'm currently unemployed in a country with a terrible economy and the situation is looking quite dire, and I'll stop the sob story around here since I'm trying to better myself and do something about my situation, and since i have a computer, free time and imagination i thought of maybe trying to make a game since well, what's the worst that could happen?

So i decided started to brush up on my programming skills and learn 3D modeling and practice drawing and started to research here and in some other places about how to start up for real on this, and one thing i saw was about when finally making a move to open a Patreon and I saw some people saying that if i do decide to mess around with DAZ " And if you're going to Patreon/charge your game, hope you paid for those assets ", and since there are almost 10,000 assets here on the site i was wondering if i do decide to start up, making a short game to learn along and then move on to bigger things, would i need to buy assets even though i can find a ton around the internet?

That would be quite impossible since if i did try to go down this path my goal would be like 250-300USD (after the Patreon cut and taxes and conversion from USD to my currency, hopefully i could get there by the end of 2023 lol) a month since that is quite enough to live a good life here and then i would start dedicating myself full time to this from then on, and some assets are upwards of 100 bucks from what i saw in the DAZ store, so i really wouldn't be able to buy assets specially since i would have no idea if the game development would pan out beforehand, so I'm only looking to cover my bases so i don't learn DAZ in vain in the near future.

Also i was looking at Honey Select 1 (Which i don't understand jack and shit about all the 200 different repacks and have no idea how to tackle starting to make renders on this one) and also drawing, but I'll be honest my drawing skills are terrible, but i always had a passion for drawing and I'll try to dedicate a piece of my time in a day to better those skills so i could be able to do a game like that in the future (Or maybe not a game since i also quite enjoy porn comics).

So those are my questions for now ,I'm sure I'll have a lot more as the time goes on but from other threads from other people in similar situations i could get most of the information i would require to jump start this whole thing, I quite appreciate any answers and hope that this thread is not out of order and doesn't cause any problems. Thanks for anyone that takes the time to read this and give their insight on the matter.

 

[OsamiWorks]

Making a game is hard, 3d for a game doesnt stop at just being good at topology. Literally there are better ways to make that 250-300 USD a month, that amount is more than doable imo but be prepared for all the effort you need to put in. It's more than you think right now.

If you know nothing, you need to get introductions to each topic you'll need from art, coding, etc and setting yourself up with a clear scope for a small first project, don't just guess at how much work something will be. Then write up a learning plan to accomplish your scope. I'm sure there are a lot of people like me on this board who are stuck in development hell because they want to fit their vision rather than take the steps to get to that point in a more realistic way. Don't be like us.

Don't rely on game dev as a career and always remind yourself that free time doesn't translate to effort. It's on you from the beginning, and take things in baby steps. There are a lot of free DAZ assets on this site and you should look around.

 

[Kaeris]

Making a game is hard, 3d for a game doesnt stop at just being good at topology. Literally there are better ways to make that 250-300 USD a month, that amount is more than doable imo but be prepared for all the effort you need to put in. It's more than you think right now.

If you know nothing, you need to get introductions to each topic you'll need from art, coding, etc and setting yourself up with a clear scope for a small first project, don't just guess at how much work something will be. Then write up a learning plan to accomplish your scope. I'm sure there are a lot of people like me on this board who are stuck in development hell because they want to fit their vision rather than take the steps to get to that point in a more realistic way. Don't be like us.

Don't rely on game dev as a career and always remind yourself that free time doesn't translate to effort. It's on you from the beginning, and take things in baby steps. There are a lot of free DAZ assets on this site and you should look around.

This was a first idea since I've always had a dream of making games, but sadly that would require some financial stability in my life that i currently do not have.
I'm not quite putting all my eggs in this basket, I'm also studying for a lot of other opportunities in my city, but those also would take a rather large time, and since they don't consume all my time I'm trying out different things, specializing in programming to try and find a remote job would be a dream but I'm quite dumb when it comes to languages not Python(Not that i don't know, i just have a way harder time to do things for some reason), so that's why i saw Ren'Py as a possibility, and even then i would hope that the game would be more complementary to my life not a full time job (Unless i hit the jackpot and become filthy rich, but i'm rather pessimistic about that possibility since i have quite literally none of the skill or talent at the moment)

I also hugely appreciate the second paragraph, as that'll did put in my mind to set up a roadmap for myself before starting up on this.

Now to the starting point, do you have any recommendations on other ways to make around 250 a month? That would quite literally fix 95% of my life problems, other than the mental ones.

 

[Meaning Less]

If you are talking about a career into normal game development you should start learning unity(C#), unreal(C++) and up.
While renpy(python) and rpgm(ruby) are fun to play with I doubt many game companies would consider your experience with them.

Also remember that actual 3D modelling and animation is usually done by artists, not programmers (both skills are hard enough by themselves). If you want to join a game company with this skill you would need to create an artistic portfolio with examples of your skill in modelling and/or animation.

So you should probably be focusing on one of those skills instead of none of them depending on your goals, that's if you want an actual career around it. You can always work as a software developer in the meantime to build both experience and skill around it since you say you need to learn a few languages first.

But if you don't care about a career and is ok with being independent then you can do whatever you feel like really, you actually already have an advantage over others by being unemployed, this means you have your full time to invest into a game and fast progress will probably help you finding support if your game is good.

 

[Carrera]

Python has more uses than just Renpy, but you shouldn't rely on it if it's a career idea.

You really want to focus on C++ and C# (sharp) if a career is what you're after.

Java at one time was in really high demand, mainly because it's pretty universal. Basically you program say, a game in Java and it will work on all platforms because each individual platform has a,, wtf is it called, basically a specialized decryptor (because I can't think of the correct term) that makes it run. So your game will run almost equally as good on PC as it would on Mac because of the specialized decryptor for each platform. However Java is limited in some respects.

If you really want to make some bucks, learn Cobol, it's an ancient dead programming language but every frickin' bank in the U.S. uses it because they're to retarded to update to a modern language. Most of the people that work with it have pretty much retired and left a glut in the industry.

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[OsamiWorks]

Python has more uses than just Renpy, but you shouldn't rely on it if it's a career idea.

You really want to focus on C++ and C# (sharp) if a career is what you're after.

Java at one time was in really high demand, mainly because it's pretty universal. Basically you program say, a game in Java and it will work on all platforms because each individual platform has a,, wtf is it called, basically a specialized decryptor (because I can't think of the correct term) that makes it run. So your game will run almost equally as good on PC as it would on Mac because of the specialized decryptor for each platform. However Java is limited in some respects.

If you really want to make some bucks, learn Cobol, it's an ancient dead programming language but every frickin' bank in the U.S. uses it because they're to retarded to update to a modern language. Most of the people that work with it have pretty much retired and left a glut in the industry.

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That last part about cobol is kind of a lie, like you do still see the remnants of cobols code everywhere but I don't think anybody is looking for it. When I've seen postings specifically mentioning cobol, those jobs are underpaying by a significant margin compared to a junior dev or a full stack developer. This probably doesnt apply to everyone, but where I live in the US, if you want to get a job as a programmer you need to be a "full stack developer" which is a really broad term for knowing some front end and some back end. Most "Full stack" developers arent full stack devs at all. It boils down to knowing multiple languages and learning whatever the rotating flavors are.

A lot of people have different experiences with it but this is generally what employers want. My info might be dated since I haven't payed attention in like 2 years and was never interested in becoming a dev to begin with but this is my understanding

Front end:
HTML, CSS, JavaScript(using nodejs) and experience in mongoDB

Back End:
Python/django, Java, PHP, Go, Ruby, C#

Half of the languages I've listed I don't know but have used. For example, I've never learned php but I have had to look at its documentation and write scripts in it to interact with applications. Other languages are useful, but not practical, and are usually extra requirements for some niche thing. The last job I looked at that fit closer to my skills was a company wanting to write an OS for a plane and looking for low level programmers (low level means languages that are closer to bare metal binary). Every business can use those front end and back languages, only people around enterprises and hobbyists use anything lower than the fullstack languages I listed.

 

[OsamiWorks]

This was a first idea since I've always had a dream of making games, but sadly that would require some financial stability in my life that i currently do not have.
I'm not quite putting all my eggs in this basket, I'm also studying for a lot of other opportunities in my city, but those also would take a rather large time, and since they don't consume all my time I'm trying out different things, specializing in programming to try and find a remote job would be a dream but I'm quite dumb when it comes to languages not Python(Not that i don't know, i just have a way harder time to do things for some reason), so that's why i saw Ren'Py as a possibility, and even then i would hope that the game would be more complementary to my life not a full time job (Unless i hit the jackpot and become filthy rich, but i'm rather pessimistic about that possibility since i have quite literally none of the skill or talent at the moment)

I also hugely appreciate the second paragraph, as that'll did put in my mind to set up a roadmap for myself before starting up on this.

Now to the starting point, do you have any recommendations on other ways to make around 250 a month? That would quite literally fix 95% of my life problems, other than the mental ones.

Everything takes time to learn and I'm not really financially stable either. Making money is more about people you know than anything you do alone. From a business perspective every interaction is important, people recommend you to jobs, people will buy your products based on your personality, people who have the means too will invest in you if they like you. A lot of that means smaller bullshit interactions and fake personalities that I really have grown a major distaste for, the people I've met and liked are more honest and I'm trying to set myself up to be like them. I know this probably doesn't make sense on how it relates to money, but its the people you know, how you treat them, and by extension the things they give you that will make you more money. The presentation of a service or product you sell are secondary to what they are, and youre included in that, people know a product can be improved later.

Cumulatively, all this adds up to something like this. If I wanted to make money tomorrow, I'd spend 100$ on a lawn mower or I'd borrow one from a friend, rent or borrow a trailer, and then start knocking on doors asking to mow lawns for 20$ with a story about trying to start a business. People really do want you to succeed and will help you, and you should accept that since its critical to making it, just don't take advantage of them.

How you make money is something I can't give advice on, what is needed shifts from market to market and its up to you to figure out what you can do in your area.

 

[Kaeris]

Alright, thanks everyone for the advice, i really appreciate the well thought out answers, i don't see myself ever working in a game company since i have a couple of friends who did escape this hellhole of a country to work at gaming companies in Canada and France respectively and they both fucking hate it, one came back and the other is bearing with it since he went mostly because Canada was way better to raise a family and his wife was pregnant, but he said if he could he would never work there after the first month, so I'll either try something completely out of programming and the likes or look into being a full-stack dev and learn a little of 3d modelling and drawing on the side since that is something I've had a interest since way before i became depraved, and maybe with more experience I'll revisit this idea later on.

Front end:
HTML, CSS, JavaScript(using nodejs) and experience in mongoDB

Back End:
Python/django, Java, PHP, Go, Ruby, C#

Half of the languages I've listed I don't know but have used. For example, I've never learned php but I have had to look at its documentation and write scripts in it to interact with applications. Other languages are useful, but not practical, and are usually extra requirements for some niche thing. The last job I looked at that fit closer to my skills was a company wanting to write an OS for a plane and looking for low level programmers (low level means languages that are closer to bare metal binary). Every business can use those front end and back languages, only people around enterprises and hobbyists use anything lower than the fullstack languages I listed.

Out of those which ones would you recommend tackling first? When i said i'm retarded in anything but python i really meant it, i was messing around on LeetCode and the same problem in Python and C took me 23 minutes and almost 2 hours respectively so that would be an uphill battle, but the thing i have the most at the moment is time and will to learn.

 

[OsamiWorks]

Alright, thanks everyone for the advice, i really appreciate the well thought out answers, i don't see myself ever working in a game company since i have a couple of friends who did escape this hellhole of a country to work at gaming companies in Canada and France respectively and they both fucking hate it, one came back and the other is bearing with it since he went mostly because Canada was way better to raise a family and his wife was pregnant, but he said if he could he would never work there after the first month, so I'll either try something completely out of programming and the likes or look into being a full-stack dev and learn a little of 3d modelling and drawing on the side since that is something I've had a interest since way before i became depraved, and maybe with more experience I'll revisit this idea later on.


Out of those which ones would you recommend tackling first? When i said i'm retarded in anything but python i really meant it, i was messing around on LeetCode and the same problem in Python and C took me 23 minutes and almost 2 hours respectively so that would be an uphill battle, but the thing i have the most at the moment is time and will to learn.

To be a fullstack dev? This is the order i'd reccomend

1 HTML
2 CSS
3 JS
4 SQL
5 Python or Ruby

I'm trying to set myself to be in freelance since corporate blows, and coding is just a tool. Don't get too focused on just coding because you might not even like it. I don't know if I mentioned this before, but all this information isn't like magical hidden knowledge, it's really everywhere and the hardest part is actually doing things over a long period of time. There is no way to get rich without someone putting in real effort

 

[Kaeris]

Thanks for the answers, and yeah believe me i know that making money is the hardest thing in this world, i personally don't think that i like coding that much, but like i said, i do have the time and the will, even if it doesn't pan out in the end it'll be a learning experience and i don't think we ever lose anything by learning more things, i'll try to cover all of my bases, put a hour or two a day in each thing, try to do some renders on HS and then Daz every now and then to get the hang of it, code while that happens and see where that leads me, if i don't find it in myself to ever actually make a game i would also like to try becoming a 2d/3d artist but who knows if i'll ever have the skills to do that too. I think that at this point worrying too much(About the distant future, the near future is giving me pause) wouldn't be to my advantage, i can always change focus if i see it isn't working out.

 

[Kaeris]

To be a fullstack dev? This is the order i'd reccomend

1 HTML
2 CSS
3 JS
4 SQL
5 Python or Ruby

I'm trying to set myself to be in freelance since corporate blows, and coding is just a tool. Don't get too focused on just coding because you might not even like it. I don't know if I mentioned this before, but all this information isn't like magical hidden knowledge, it's really everywhere and the hardest part is actually doing things over a long period of time. There is no way to get rich without someone putting in real effort

I'll start up on HTML asap and then after a couple of month's dip my toes in the other ones, see if after like half a year or so i could try making something in Twine. On that point does anyone know how does a game using real life images work copyright wise? I see most use pictures of the most popular porn actresses out there and they're just fine on patreon.

 

[Droid Productions]

$250/month is by no means an impossible goal (and far more reasonable than many others). Do note that for the first year+ of Love of Magic I would have made more money working McDonalds than working on porn games. It took thousands of hours of work before it started paying back, and this is on top of a long time working in the normie games industry as a coder.

Having said that, if you're not interested in joining the normie games industry, C# is largely unecessary, and C++ more or less worthless. Python's useful for normie (non games) roles, and RenPy's likely the best engine for where you are personally. Daz or HS/HS2 are both valid options for getting content out of the way, and if you're a dedicated pervert you likely have some dreams of what to achieve.

Put out a small game that you believe you can complete in a month of hard work, see if you enjoy the process, and what you learn from the experience. Share it, improve from feedback, and keep moving forward. Good luck!

 

[Winterfire]

i personally don't think that i like coding that much

-And that's how abandoned games exist.

Jokes aside, if you do not like doing things involving game development, just go and find a real job instead. Definitely don't quit your day job if you have one.

Things like these are hit and miss, and the "miss" part is more stacked in your favor if you don't like doing it to begin with.

 

[Droid Productions]

On that point does anyone know how does a game using real life images work copyright wise? I see most use pictures of the most popular porn actresses out there and they're just fine on patreon.

They are not yet reported on Patreon; the moment they are they'll get nuked. No real porn (real humans interacting in sexual intercourse) on Patreon. That's not a copyright issue (though you are indeed in copyright violation), it's a US criminal act dealing with record keeping for adult performers, and liabilities for distributors if they're not kept. Patreon doesn't want those liabilities (neither do Steam), so if you're seen anywhere near that limit you'll get beaten like a rented mule.

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[Kaeris]

$250/month is by no means an impossible goal (and far more reasonable than many others). Do note that for the first year+ of Love of Magic I would have made more money working McDonalds than working on porn games. It took thousands of hours of work before it started paying back, and this is on top of a long time working in the normie games industry as a coder.

Having said that, if you're not interested in joining the normie games industry, C# is largely unecessary, and C++ more or less worthless. Python's useful for normie (non games) roles, and RenPy's likely the best engine for where you are personally. Daz or HS/HS2 are both valid options for getting content out of the way, and if you're a dedicated pervert you likely have some dreams of what to achieve.

Put out a small game that you believe you can complete in a month of hard work, see if you enjoy the process, and what you learn from the experience. Share it, improve from feedback, and keep moving forward. Good luck!

Wow the big man himself, thanks for the insight Droid, always loved everything you put out there, also i wish working on McDonald's was feasible here, if you can believe it actually pays less than minimum wage at the moment, which is around like 120ish dollars since it's "technically" a part time job (Which they make people work like a full time job but our justice system is absofuckinglutely broken), and it's in no way possible to live with the wage from there, i would quite literally make more money cutting grass as Osami suggested, but my country has a huge security issue and even though i did it a lot like a decade ago people are way more .... i don't know the word but it's when you have trouble trusting others, and a lot of people pay 2-3 times more for people who have a commerce in the area to do it (We do have professional grass cutters here but they're not gardeners), than to pay for someone they do not know.

I absolutely only have time and willpower in my hand so I'll try to grind for a couple of month's getting the hang of rendering and programming before i try to do a small game, and I'll also do like Osami suggest and look a little into trying to become a full-stack dev, mostly as a freelance possibility since i have quite some hiccups in my life that would limit my ability to work a job in the normal hours. But to hear that from you gave me quite some peace of mind and i really appreciate it.

-And that's how abandoned games exist.

Jokes aside, if you do not like doing things involving game development, just go and find a real job instead. Definitely don't quit your day job if you have one.

Things like these are hit and miss, and the "miss" part is more stacked in your favor if you don't like doing it to begin with.

I didn't express myself quite well, it's not that i don't like coding, i do, i just never had to do it for a living, don't know if you ever were depraved enough to play Dr.Bones games, but i fear of becoming like that (Not successful ,rich and popular), he admited that he likes to do it while thinking of it as "free time" but hates having to think of what he does as a job, he says that even though it is what put's food on his table he would rather stop doing it than to force himself to do it, I never tried out being a dev, but i fear that even though it's something i like and sometimes dreamed of, that i would hate having expectations and not being able to live up to them.

Now for the non existential crisis part of the conversation, do you have any suggestions on how to try and make Koikatsu art? I quite enjoy your games even though i disliked the anime both were based off, and i think the model's are really well done, and i always see people saying that either HS or Koikatsu are the way to go for complete noobs in the field, but i have no idea how either works, so any advice would be greatly appreciated.

They are not yet reported on Patreon; the moment they are they'll get nuked. No real porn (real humans interacting in sexual intercourse) on Patreon. That's not a copyright issue (though you are indeed in copyright violation), it's a US criminal act dealing with record keeping for adult performers, and liabilities for distributors if they're not kept. Patreon doesn't want those liabilities (neither do Steam), so if you're seen anywhere near that limit you'll get beaten like a rented mule.

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I find it puzzling how somethings go under the radar like that, like the Boku no Hero porn game that released on Steam or the ones that are puzzles using images from porn of cartoon characters, it's quite well advertised but it never seem to be caught. I'll still try to make something using HTML/Twine in the future but i think I'll try to improve my drawing skills first, seems to be a way safer way to go about things. Who knows maybe I'll even try doing a real porn one if i lose all my fear of the social system.

As always i hugely appreciate the time to answer all of my stupidity that everyone took, but this thread gave me quite some confidence boost, not that i'm sure it would work, but now i see that it's possible with enough hard work thanks to all these great answers. Let's see what the future holds.

 

[Winterfire]

I didn't express myself quite well, it's not that i don't like coding, i do, i just never had to do it for a living, don't know if you ever were depraved enough to play Dr.Bones games, but i fear of becoming like that (Not successful ,rich and popular), he admited that he likes to do it while thinking of it as "free time" but hates having to think of what he does as a job

The secret is not making it a job, and have fun while doing it. Like genuinely looking forward the day after to continue working on your project, I have been doing this (NSFW games) since 2019, and I never got tired of it.

Now for the non existential crisis part of the conversation, do you have any suggestions on how to try and make Koikatsu art?

Whether you use Koikatu or HS2, first of all I suggest you to get the torrent of either game from ScrewThisNoise, then buy the game just to support it. The torrent has the most updated Repack with all the plugins to the latest version, and if you need something in particular, you can always google it on a second moment.

Making Koikatu art is pretty straightforward, making characters is part of the game, so you should have no issue with that. The rest is done through Charastudio... I suggest you this guide:

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After you are done making your CG, or the pose of a character, you can press F11 key to grab a screenshot.
If you need to change the settings of the plugin (such as to apply transparency or change resolution) access the plugin manager, which should be F1 key if I am not mistaken.

 

[OsamiWorks]

I'll start up on HTML asap and then after a couple of month's dip my toes in the other ones, see if after like half a year or so i could try making something in Twine. On that point does anyone know how does a game using real life images work copyright wise? I see most use pictures of the most popular porn actresses out there and they're just fine on patreon.

HTML won't take months, the order of those should help build into the next one. I forgot one more thing, learn to push to github early on, including the bad stuff. Call it a growth portfolio if you ever hand it to an employer and remember to include it on your cv. While no one ever looked at mine, a lot of hard code was lost because I worked in linux across multiple laptops for a long time and i ignored it since I had to push from the command line. It's easier now with the desktop app but at the time I felt like learning how to do that wasnt important and that was a mistake

I would have made more money working McDonalds than working on porn games. It took thousands of hours of work before it started paying back, and this is on top of a long time working in the normie games industry as a coder.

This hits hard

Spoiler: Its worth it tho... right?

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[Meaning Less]

Find something you like to do instead of just coping with things you claim to not like that much, if you don't like coding don't focus on it... That's what renpy/rpgm are there for.

Instead learn to use blender and create original assets for instance, since you seem to also have interest in 3D modelling.
If you learn enough to create original characters you will already be leaps ahead of your average adult daz developer here, and that will also help your game be more unique as well as give you more creative freedom.

Never waste times learning something you "think" might be useful, instead focus on what you need to learn now.

 

[Droid Productions]

This hits hard
View attachment 1753139

Well, it kept my family fed through the pandemic, and left me working on a game I loved, so yes. I'm still at lower ROI than if I'd quit and gone to flip code somewhere, but I'm enjoying things a hell of a lot more, and I'm

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.

 

[Yngling]

Kaeris out of curiousity: where do you live? SA?

Honey Select or Koikatsu (or even The Sims or TK17) would be a simple way to create graphics, but it may put off some people. Other people seem to be less bothered with it. But, they do place less of a burden on the rendering PC. Rendering Daz images can take a lot of time and do benefit from a top-end graphics card, which obviously costs money.

In terms of engine, Renpy is the way to go, no doubt about it in my opinion, unless you really want to make an RPG or something more complex, e.g. an actual game rather than a VN.

At least you write proper English and set reasonable goals. 250-300USD should be possible with a reasonably solid game even if it doesn't hit the jackpot.