Really General Newbie development question

[MrLakes1579]

Hey, I've been spending... entirely too much time playing games from here and the Quarantine basically got my wheels spinning. It would be a perfect setup for an incest game. That said I've looked into tutorials on Renpy. It doesn't seem too daunting but still would be learning from scratch. The game itself would be fairly simple, if/then paths and a couple characters that would have point mechanics.

Also I'm a decent artist, but my style doesn't really translate into any of the things you'd want to do here and on top of that I also have some mainstream aspirations and I'm afraid my art style would be too recognizable if it came out I was working on an incest game.

With all that out of the way here's the actual question. I'm thinking I could probably bang out the actual story script within like a week if I really put my mind to it. Like all the dialogue, all the choices, all the narrations. I know specifically in comics that just having a script is next to nothing, but in this field how closed to "finished" would a project be considered if the full story script was done with no art or programming?

 

[Deleted member 1491141]

At any rate it will be better than nothing. Also you can take the time it'll take to develop the script and coding and use it to develop a new style, if you're that scared of being found out. Use placeholders in the meanwhile. No one ever said you're limited to one style. I'm not there yet, but I've seen some artists switch styles on a dime.

I toyed with the idea of a quarantine based wincest game (basically a combo of cabin fever, fear/anxiety and you being the only shoulder to cry on makes it more plausible for that switch to happen in the character's mind). So I'm biased, but I think you're definitely on to something there.

 

[osanaiko]

I know specifically in comics that just having a script is next to nothing, but in this field how closed to "finished" would a project be considered if the full story script was done with no art or programming?

I'd say a complete story script is like 5% finished. You would still need to convert it into your chosen engine (i.e. formatting specifics, assign speaking character to each line of dialogue, program all the choice menus and their consquences). A full story with all ddialogue and choices programmed might take you to 10% done.

If you want to have any sort of complexity beyond a simple branching visual novel (like inventory, crafting, free-roam, minigames etc) then you need to be able to do all that programming work AND integrate it to the script.

But then the big elephant in any VN is the visuals. Of course everyone SAYS that a great story is enough to overlook art issues, but in reality there must be high quality artwork to attract players in the first place. Quality does not necessarily mean "realistic" - hand drawn art is generally quite successful due to the charm and style.

I don't want to discourage you, but the sheer volume of work to make a game that is not embarrassingly bad (i like the term "yet another incest based Daz asset soup" for most of these) is huge. There is a reason most devs get only a few updates in and drop their game, if they even get as far as releasing it at all!

 

[Saki_Sliz]

I know specifically in comics that just having a script is next to nothing, but in this field how closed to "finished" would a project be considered if the full story script was done with no art or programming?

Well it depends.

While I do not make comics, I feel I understand what you mean when you say "in comics that just having a script is next to nothing" because some ideas/scipts I have demand lots of art, and in that case a lot of the work is the art not the script.

it is an easy trap to get ahead of yourself, and I've been trying to find the balance between speed, effort, and quality of the final product. the two nice things with games is, you can reuse art assets (ie one character art can be used countless time in a visual novel or one character model is all you need for the entire game if 3D) or you can supplement story with gameplay. The issue then is, actually making a game.

I would say what osanaiko said, a story may only be 5% of the work (yes that's a low number, making a game is slow sadly enough, two weeks seems to be about the time I see most projects loose momentum with or without teammates), however I would also say that depending on your execution it could be 20% of the work if you are an experienced programmer and can just copy and paste code you've already done or use pre-made systems or for when you don't need to learn along the way, and when everything is done players will find that the story is worth 30 to 70% of the game's experience.

 

[MrLakes1579]

I'd say a complete story script is like 5% finished. You would still need to convert it into your chosen engine (i.e. formatting specifics, assign speaking character to each line of dialogue, program all the choice menus and their consquences). A full story with all ddialogue and choices programmed might take you to 10% done.

If you want to have any sort of complexity beyond a simple branching visual novel (like inventory, crafting, free-roam, minigames etc) then you need to be able to do all that programming work AND integrate it to the script.

But then the big elephant in any VN is the visuals. Of course everyone SAYS that a great story is enough to overlook art issues, but in reality there must be high quality artwork to attract players in the first place. Quality does not necessarily mean "realistic" - hand drawn art is generally quite successful due to the charm and style.

I don't want to discourage you, but the sheer volume of work to make a game that is not embarrassingly bad (i like the term "yet another incest based Daz asset soup" for most of these) is huge. There is a reason most devs get only a few updates in and drop their game, if they even get as far as releasing it at all!

In general I totally get that. I'd probably go simple on it. I think a lot of things like free roam and inventory systems are good for stretching things out for patreon, but I tend to like basic story driven non grindy games and that would likely be what I'd want to do. Honestly writing and programming seem both doable from how you're talking.

As for artwork, the big problem I have is my mainstream project is a female driven PG13 superhero project. The medium I primarily work in now is vector graphics though the Animation software Moho. The most famous thing I can think of that's been produced with the software is the cartoon "Barry Tales." But I have a lot of female starter models sitting around, not used to drawing nudity, I recently did a small project where I made some renditions of classic on model Marvel and DC heriones and Started converting them nude, adding nipples and vaginas etc. Don't know if it would be passable or not, but it's the one style I've been able to get my artwork passable with. And it does export full animation. It's an option but not sure if I want to take it. Also if I get serious this is the phase of production I'd be most willing to outsource.

Just in the "tossing it around because I'm super bored in quarantine" phase of things so don't know if I'd want to follow all the way through. Is there a way something could be monetized if you intentionally keep it fairly short and to the point? Putting the padding in just to make it able to be monetized might be more work than I want to undertake.

One thing to set it apart that I'm considering to set it apart is lean into the lesbian/poly side to the point of where you could "match make" between family members before you have sex with either. The youngest sister would be leaning strongly in a lesbian direction, she'd make a sole exception for the main character but part of her story would be which of the family members you set up to take her virginity and the different type of sex that would lead to (romantic, wild, dom/sub). And the oldest sister would be really sweet and everyone in the family would be interested in her on their own and you'd have a part in choosing which family member took her virginity as well which would be a close to end game element.

Also if I get too deep into it I think starting with 5 girls with a few complications is doable. If I work on it too long and start adding people and locations it could spiral out of control fast.

 

[Saki_Sliz]

Is there a way something could be monetized if you intentionally keep it fairly short and to the point?

I want to avoid telling you what to do by telling you what I personally like, but I will say games that promise nothing but are simple or short games, tend to have the best community response. Their like gems in the rough, since at least short and simple games are the only ones that really get completed, but they also tend not to have a huge following since they tend to come out of the blue. once you start planning and telling people about your plans, you start to get a following, and before you even made anything people start to get expectations, and the only way to accommodate everyone is to make something grand or stupid big, and that defeats the purpose of making a game just for yourself, because all the work and stress sucks out the fun. I say for your first 10 projects, it should be short and to the point, but most people stop working part way through and restart because they learned more along the way and think they can do better, and before they have even finished a project they are already planning for a project far too large.

 

[osanaiko]

As for artwork, the big problem I have is my mainstream project is a female driven PG13 superhero project
<snip>
I recently did a small project where I made some renditions of classic on model Marvel and DC heriones and Started converting them nude, adding nipples and vaginas etc.
<snip>
Just in the "tossing it around because I'm super bored in quarantine" phase of things so don't know if I'd want to follow all the way through. Is there a way something could be monetized if you intentionally keep it fairly short and to the point? Putting the padding in just to make it able to be monetized might be more work than I want to undertake.

One thing to set it apart that I'm considering to set it apart is lean into the lesbian/poly side to the point of where you could "match make" between family members before you have sex with either.
<snip>
Also if I get too deep into it I think starting with 5 girls with a few complications is doable. If I work on it too long and start adding people and locations it could spiral out of control fast.

Your ideas and thought basis, with semi-recognizable comic book characters, and incestual lesbian relationship stage managed by the MC , is no doubt the exact crossover point of the intersection of the fetishes of some group of dudes on the internet.

Once you talk about "monetizable" however, you're crossing into a much more interesting area: no longer is this a passion project where you want to realise something that appeals to *you* (or possible is a path to stroking your own ego about what *you* can make and get praise and feedback reactions). Instead, you can start to think about what makes a monetizable successful erotic product in the current world and marketplace. The answer then, is discovering the intersection between: a) has a potential fanbase who are interested in the specific genre or fetishes, b) fans who have money and want to encourage more (or even get access to ANY) of the genre.

This is the reason why there seems to be such an endless tap of money for Furry art, so many M2F Transformation/Sissification games, and the seemingly limitless flood of sister/mother incest crap. These are taboo topics where there is little mainstream content. And for who knows what reason, seem to be relatively common amongst technically literate Gen X / Gen Y men. And some small percentage of those people are ready to pay!

As with all things in "Art", a relatively low number of people vote with their wallet to support the "artists" (I use the term loosely when it comes to some of the games you find on this site ), but once the artwork is created, potentially many others can benefit . On "teh interwebz", this means the art is copied everywhere around, on sites just like this one. But as you know, exposure is the key to finding those 1 in 100 art consumers who are interested enough to come and pay the piper. It's one of the reasons you actually find some of the game creators participating in the forums here, interacting with the fans; hopefully that effort means they get some more traction and more people willing to pay in the future.

Saki_Sliz made a comment about how the best loved games are often those that come with no expectations. This is certainly true in some cases. But the most *successful* games (if you judged success by the number of downloads / forum comments / favourable reviews / and if course PATRONS) are the ones which offer quality teasers, appeal to relatively broad genre targets but also include enough taboo spice, and then come back again with regular updates to prove to potential patrons that they mean business. They build up the expectations of their fans.

 

[Saki_Sliz]

@Saki_Sliz made a comment about how the best loved games are often those that come with no expectations. This is certainly true in some cases. But the most *successful* games (if you judged success by the number of downloads / forum comments / favourable reviews / and if course PATRONS) are the ones which offer quality teasers, appeal to relatively broad genre targets but also include enough taboo spice, and then come back again with regular updates to prove to potential patrons that they mean business. They build up the expectations of their fans.

yep, but that is time and commitment, and I've been in enough projects that burned down to know that it is not as simple as 'just stick to it' and then on the flip side as a one person team it can be really slow. from what I have seen the only way to really keep putting out trailers on a monthly bases or so is to focus on art and content, where as I want to focus on dark work, code. It seems to work best with VN type game systems, but I have seen other games pull it off as well.