Rework of an Adult Game ,build from the ground up

[SoulFoZoid]

Looking through some games that had started their steps to remake their entire chapters, story and gameplay.

I have seen projects that managed to work in parallel and their reboot their projects managing to catch up to the story and become a full project again in a few months.

But I seen projects that once they started reworking the entire game the fans got tired of waiting.

So my question is, would you consider remaking your project ?

would there be an issue for your supporters ?

If you choose yes or no, please feel free to share why!

 

[Avaron1974]

Speaking as a player, I avoid reworks.

Take My New Life, that game has a ton of content yet rather than finish it the dev reboots it. Why would I want to start all over again for a game that could have been finished and then reworked in the devs own time?

It also adds to the reason why I don't back games until they are nearly finished. Reboots/reworks/remasters are a complete waste of our time and I don't know about anyone else but I don't like my time being wasted.

I spend months playing a game, watching it grow to have it scrapped and worked again from the ground up and i'm back to square one.

Putting it simply, if a dev doesn't have faith in their own work, why should I have faith in them?

 

[polywog]

A few games started in RPGM and for some stupid reason took a step backwards into Renpy, that's a big vote of no confidence, and ends support for the developer. You don't start in a game engine and move to a VN maker. You can start with a VN story, and upgrade it to a GAME, but not the other way around.
Before you choose an engine, you should get to know it's limitations before starting the project.

 

[Winterfire]

Despite the lack of pictures in polywog's post which always shocks me, I agree with him.
The problem is that people often start the game without a clear idea or game design, which may work out at the beginning but not once the project reaches a certain point in development.

Without a clear plan, a player may say "rpg maker sucks, pls mke renpy" and they may say "sure why not" rather than looking at their plan and explain why such a switch is a bad idea.

 

[SoulFoZoid]

I've also been caught up with playing a game that now has a full rework, being bored by the lack of update and even if the developer add new content to the old game it will always have a bad taste in my mouth.

One advice that I got is to have a great beginning, polishing it till the surface shines.

 

[Nelythia]

Yea, I think the same. Reworks are mostly stupid and a waste of time.
Take Slo(w)nique, he reboots his small games with no contents 3 times each, to introduce even less sexual content but even more annoying grind towards non rewarding scenes.

Rework can be good, for example "Broken Youth" got a rework and in my opinion it made the game way better and much more interesting. But for a single game that had a good rework, there are dozens and dozens that had shitty ones.

 

[HopesGaming]

Reboots or remake all just spell "unprepared" or "failure" to me.

It gives the feeling of an unprepared dev who has no directions.
Engine, story, setting and so on should all be planned before making the game. Not just jump into it and hope for the best.
Most of the time it leads to a big mess and then the abandoned status. Or in these cases- reboots.

 

[Agent HK47]

would you consider remaking you're project ?

would there be an issue for you're supporters ?

Look, I hate being that guy, but seeing the same mistake twice in such a short time, makes me fear that my brain is gonna drip out of my ears if I don't say this 1 word, so forgive me: YOUR

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm heading outside and slamming my head into a wall, while asking myself why I simply can't just leave these kinds of things alone

Edit*

In order to avoid being a complete asshole, I will give an answer to your question, speaking as a player: I HATE when developers announce re-makes of their games. It's fine that you feel like you could do things better, but save those improvements for your next game, unless your game is literally unplayable and needs a re-work in order to function again from a technical standpoint.
Mostly when I see a developer announce a re-work, I know that there is a 90% chance that the game will never pass the current stage of progression again.

 

[Boogie]

I call this the Patreon Effect. Either the developer wants, or the general public expects, a project to be released in bits and pieces, usually in the form of episodes if a VN. It used to be that if someone released an incomplete project they would be ridiculed relentlessly for wasting everyone's time with an incomplete product.

I can understand everyone's concern if they feel like the developer is just milking it for the monthly Patreon fees. But I see all these projects as amateur attempts at making games and most of them are clearly the first attempts by their developers. If something isn't working out like they expected then they should go back and change/fix things. If a developer isn't trying to make the best possible final product then why bother supporting it in the first place?

 

[SoulFoZoid]

Look, I hate being that guy, but seeing the same mistake twice in such a short time, makes me fear that my brain is gonna drip out of my ears if I don't say this 1 word, so forgive me: YOUR

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm heading outside and slamming my head into a wall, while asking myself why I simply can't just leave these kinds of things alone

Edit*

In order to avoid being a complete asshole, I will give an answer to your question, speaking as a player: I HATE when developers announce re-makes of their games. It's fine that you feel like you could do things better, but save those improvements for your next game, unless your game is literally unplayable and needs a re-work in order to function again from a technical standpoint.
Mostly when I see a developer announce a re-work, I know that there is a 90% chance that the game will never pass the current stage of progression again.

Ah thank you I'll modify it right away, I legit wanted to type "your" but I've got confused.

 

[Agent HK47]

A few games started in RPGM and for some stupid reason took a step backwards into Renpy, that's a big vote of no confidence, and ends support for the developer. You don't start in a game engine and move to a VN maker. You can start with a VN story, and upgrade it to a GAME, but not the other way around.
Before you choose an engine, you should get to know it's limitations before starting the project.

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I have to disagree with your viewpoint on this issue. If the dev starts his game in RPGM and later realise that his game won't use the engine to the best of it's abilities, why would he not trim what is not needed, if he can achieve a similar result in a more suitable engine instead?
I can't count the amount of RPGM games I have played, where I have to walk from the edge of the map, to the other end, fetch an item and then walk all the way back, without anything happening during the trip. It adds nothing to the game, other than artificially extending gameplay and wasting my time. In ren-py you could achieve the same result with a black screen saying "after a long walk, you arrive at your destination" and thus save the player from 5 minutes of boredom.

Also, ren'py can be every bit as much of a "real" game engine as RPGM, if you have enough time and are confident in Python. Most people I have asked, actually use RPGM because they feel it is simpler than Ren'py. So, in a way, many people are actually "stepping backwards" into RPGM, even if they know their project would be better suited for another engine. If they pick up the programming skills underway, why would they not port the game to the engine they actually feel fits the game?

 

[polywog]

I have to disagree with your viewpoint on this issue. If the dev starts his game in RPGM and later realise that his game won't use the engine to the best of it's abilities, why would he not trim what is not needed, if he can achieve a similar result in a more suitable engine instead?

You aren't actually disagreeing with me, you're just making excuses. "If you have poor planning skills, it's ok to start over"

As for using a VN maker and writing your own game engine, you are incorrect. You are misinterpreting what people are telling you. When people say that RPGM is easier, that's because it already has an engine, and you don't have to write your own, like you would need to do with renpy. Not a step backwards, just a matter of choice.

I can't count the amount of RPGM games I have played, where I have to walk from the edge of the map, to the other end, fetch an item and then walk all the way back, without anything happening during the trip. It adds nothing to the game, other than artificially extending gameplay and wasting my time. In ren-py you could achieve the same result with a black screen saying "after a long walk, you arrive at your destination" and thus save the player from 5 minutes of boredom.

RPGM doesn't require that you walk... if the developer wanted to, he could install teleporters everywhere. In other words RPGM could give you a black screen saying you teleported which saved you a lot of walking. That's optional, and up to the developer, not that RPGM can't skip the walking, the dev chose to make you walk. Whereas renpy doesn't have the ability to walk at all by itself, renpy is just a slideshow.

 

[Agent HK47]

You aren't actually disagreeing with me, you're just making excuses. "If you have poor planning skills, it's ok to start over"

As for using a VN maker and writing your own game engine, you are incorrect. You are misinterpreting what people are telling you. When people say that RPGM is easier, that's because it already has an engine, and you don't have to write your own, like you would need to do with renpy. Not a step backwards, just a matter of choice.

There is a difference between "poor planning skills" and simply lacking experience. Let's say an aspiring artist starts painting portraits for a living, and for the first year, his paintings are not very good. However, as time goes on, he gains experience and learns how to paint high quality portraits. Should his customers from his first year berate him for "poor planning" and demand their money back for their portraits, when his problem was really a lack of experience?

And no. I have seen quite a few people, who have stated that they would like to have their game in ren'py, but they are afraid of coding in python, so they are more at ease by using RPGM as a way of showing people text, having choices and putting pictures on screen.
I believe "Cohabitation" uses RPGM for this exact reason, as the game acts completely like a ren'py sandbox game. Same for "research into affection"

RPGM doesn't require that you walk... if the developer wanted to, he could install teleporters everywhere. In other words RPGM could give you a black screen saying you teleported which saved you a lot of walking. That's optional, and up to the developer, not that RPGM can't skip the walking, the dev chose to make you walk. Whereas renpy doesn't have the ability to walk at all by itself, renpy is just a slideshow.

You completely missed the point here. A lot of the developers who uses RPGM, chose the engine, because it is easy to pad gametime with mechanics, such as walking all over the place or endless battles, which adds nothing to the game. The fact that it is a "real game engine" as you call it, also makes it much simpler to implement pointless time wasting mechanics to the game, even when it might hurt the game, simply to pad the playtime.
The choice is with the developer, that is true. However, RPGM is not a superior engine to ren'py, anymore than a car is superior to a motorcycle. It is an engine, which has a different type of games in mind, and with the right developer, it can make great games. However, it can also make horrible games, which is also true for ren'py.

Also, if you are such a big fan of RPGM, then you should be happy that devs are deciding that their games are not worthy of the engine and switch over to ren'py. I don't see why you even complain about it tbh, it seems like a logical win for you.

 

[polywog]

There is a difference between "poor planning skills" and simply lacking experience. Let's say an aspiring artist starts painting portraits for a living, and for the first year, his paintings are not very good. However, as time goes on, he gains experience and learns how to paint high quality portraits. Should his customers from his first year berate him for "poor planning" and demand their money back for their portraits, when his problem was really a lack of experience?

And no. I have seen quite a few people, who have stated that they would like to have their game in ren'py, but they are afraid of coding in python, so they are more at ease by using RPGM as a way of showing people text, having choices and putting pictures on screen.
I believe "Cohabitation" uses RPGM for this exact reason, as the game acts completely like a ren'py sandbox game. Same for "research into affection"



You completely missed the point here. A lot of the developers who uses RPGM, chose the engine, because it is easy to pad gametime with mechanics, such as walking all over the place or endless battles, which adds nothing to the game. The fact that it is a "real game engine" as you call it, also makes it much simpler to implement pointless time wasting mechanics to the game, even when it might hurt the game, simply to pad the playtime.
The choice is with the developer, that is true. However, RPGM is not a superior engine to ren'py, anymore than a car is superior to a motorcycle. It is an engine, which has a different type of games in mind, and with the right developer, it can make great games. However, it can also make horrible games, which is also true for ren'py.

Also, if you are such a big fan of RPGM, then you should be happy that devs are deciding that their games are not worthy of the engine and switch over to ren'py. I don't see why you even complain about it tbh, it seems like a logical win for you.

Renpy is not a game engine. period. It's a visual novel slideshow maker.
You seem to have jumped to some conclusion that i'm a fan of RPGM. I'm a UNITY developer.

Saying that you can write your own game engine that allows you to run a renpy slideshow is retarded. Why not just use a game engine if you are making a game, and a vn maker if you are making a vn. If you write your own python game engine, you don't fucking need renpy in it.

My girlfriend's amnesia is a good example. The game is made in RPGM, taking advantage of the game engine, and superior graphics / video abilities of RPGM vs the shitty slideshow of renpy.

Unity is a superior game engine for live 3D games. If you want to animate 3d characters in python, you don't need renpy for that either.

 

[Agent HK47]

Why not just use a game engine if you are making a game, and a vn maker if you are making a vn.

And THIS is the point I have been arguing the entire time. If someone starts out using the wrong engine and learns to use to right one later, why would he not switch to the proper engine?

You know what, I just looked down at my own signature and realized something: You are absolutely right. Everything I said is completely silly and you were right all the way. Go to sleep tonight, smiling at the thought of how you wrecked this poor little droid