Silly question about incest

Niteowl

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Apr 6, 2018
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Incest is not a fetish I'm interested in.....so I thought I should ask you guys about this.....
Would lesbian sex between two sisters be considered incest?
I mean it's siblings having sex, but incest is mainly taboo due to pregnancy issues like deformed babies etc. Obviously that's not a concern for lesbian sex?
Also most incest aficionados only seem to refer to guys banging mothers or sisters.
Any thoughts? What would patrons TOS say about this?
Just curious
 

Fliptoynk

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Nov 9, 2018
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Incest is already saturated, please dont make it more lame as it is

Just kidding... As for the question, i dunno. We wont know until you publish it
 

wurg

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Apr 19, 2018
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If you have to ask about Patreon TOS, it won't pass. Incest is sexual activity between close relatives, it really doesn't matter if they are the same or opposite gender. If you don't believe that make a game game with brother/sister, but he is a eunuch and see if they ban you, she won't be able to get pregnant, but it's still incest.

If you are going to make a game with sisters, I would definitely go the patch route with the game, it's really not much more work to have roommate be replaced with sister in the dialog, it's only a variable. And, you won't have to worry about the morality police knocking on your door.

Why risk an income if you don't have to. All it takes is one person that you upset somehow to inform on you for the scrutiny to start. Why give them a reason on a silver platter. Rule one: protect yourself first.

I know we have been fed the line of "deformed babies" for years, but it makes me wonder why the isolated tribes in the Amazon don't have 2 heads or 3 arms yet. I guarantee that after centuries of living in isolation the family tree doesn't fork very much anymore, there has to be an sustained influx of different DNA to keep this from happening. Does it make deviations more likely, I'm sure it does.
 

anne O'nymous

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I know we have been fed the line of "deformed babies" for years, but it makes me wonder why the isolated tribes in the Amazon don't have 2 heads or 3 arms yet. I guarantee that after centuries of living in isolation the family tree doesn't fork very much anymore, there has to be an sustained influx of different DNA to keep this from happening. Does it make deviations more likely, I'm sure it does.
We are anyway all the result of incest ; starting by the cavemen, then continuing by the isolated small towns. And incest was still something socially tolerable in the 19th century, since we know about the risk of mutations because Darwin married his cousin ; he wouldn't have been the scientist we now know if he was seen as a sick pervert.
It's more likely to trigger unlucky mutations, but it also mean that, on a really long period of times, it clean the genetic patrimony. Couples where the "bad genes" are too strong will have either babies that will not live long enough, or babies where the said "bad genes" will be weaker than they where for their parents. Repeat this on a long enough period of time, and you can probably be totally ride of the "bad genes", or at least make them weak enough to not be bothered.
 

おい!

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Mar 25, 2018
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We also do not allow other fringe sexual fetish creations, such as incest, necrophilia, or fetish creations that is hard to distinguish from non-consensual sex.

We understand that some topics on this list such as incest or rape are a little bit more complicated because these situations are, unfortunately, part of real life. As a result, when reviewing these types of creations, the Trust and Safety team will take into consideration context including personal, historical or educational narrative. For example, survivor stories or fiction such as Game of Thrones or Lolita are allowed on Patreon.
 
Jun 27, 2018
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Incest isn't some blood purification method.

Cousins are different than sibling or parent incest because they share considerably less DNA. With parents or full siblings, 50% of genes are shared. An aunt or uncle only shares 25% of genes, and a cousin only 12.5%. Genes aren't on/off things, in many cases. For many genes, you'll carry many copies in your DNA. Imagine the average person has 9 working and 1 defective genes of any particular type. The broken run of DNA will be generally overridden, and the body will work as normal. Now imagine that natural variance means many people will have some gene with is lower, perhaps only 5/10 work. They're okay, but with a child receiving half their genes, there's a pretty good chance that for that gene, they'll end up with the 5 broken copies, or 4/5 broken copies. Normally this won't matter, because the other parent will give 4-5 working copies, the child ends up with 5/10 copies as well.

With parent or sibling incest, each will have only that 5/10 to start with. The odds that the child will end up with 1-3 copies is much higher than normal. A second generation of incest will see it almost guaranteed that bad genes will express, as the odds of receiving working copies decreases with each pairing.

A cousin brings in more potential sources of good genes, with their added ancestors, making it far less likely for complications to occur. That's why marrying cousins has been common in many societies over time while siblings, parents and aunts/uncles were cause for alarm. The odds are these deepseated stigmas arose from seeing the problems it caused in antiquity, so much that humans generally have a genetic predisposition to avoid close relation pairing, with genes that cause an instinctual disinterest in pairing with close relatives being fairly successful throughout the population.

Incest exposes the natural chaff that's in everyones genes and lets it run wild.
 
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anne O'nymous

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Incest isn't some blood purification method.
It's not what I said.


With parents or full siblings, 50% of genes are shared. An aunt or uncle only shares 25% of genes, and a cousin only 12.5%.
Which is true only if you look at the situation from a none inbred point of view, because the parents' DNA is assumed to have a difference high enough.
But here I talk about inbred populations, which lower the difference between parents and lead to situation as surprising (well not this surprising in fact) than an individual having . Which have never been seen before, even with animals ; not even sure that scientist found more than 20% of identical copies before.
This can happen only if the parents shared more than 50% of their genes. Even if the parents were father and daughter, or mother and son, it's almost impossible unless the similarity between the two DNA was already higher than 50%. And the fact that, among the amazingly low number of samples scientists have access to, this individual was found, tend to demonstrate that relatives sharing more than 50% of there DNA was far to be an exception.


Incest exposes the natural chaff that's in everyones genes and lets it run wild.
Yet the only consequences effectively seen in populations subject to strong inbreeding among history, is a reduction . They don't effectively have more recessive genes, they aren't effectively more subject to mutations, just less fertile.
 

khumak

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Oct 2, 2017
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I noticed yesterday that Man of the House is on Steam. I have no idea if he tweaked it to remove the incest, but if not then apparently Steam doesn't care if there is incest. I found that interesting. From what I have heard it sounds like Steam is more focused on enforcing a restriction on underage content which is something I'm fine with in principal but I've heard that some of their methods end up targetting other things instead. For instance they apparently frown on games in a school setting. I don't know how accurate that is. Could be they're banning a bunch of stereotypical hentai stuff with HS girls who look like they're 12. Or it could be something more reasonable like a HS setting where the girls actually look like seniors. If it's the former then I support that decision. If it's the latter then I don't.

Back to the original question though I don't think it matters whether there is the potential for pregnancy. Incest is incest. You could argue about how many degrees of separate are required for it to no longer be incest. Obviously brother/sister is incest. What about cousins, aunts, uncles, etc? At some point it's no longer considered incest but I've never seen a line in the sand for it. There are tons of jokes about hillbillies hooking up with their cousins and stuff and I'm sure that actually happens in small towns where the pickins are slim unless you move away...
 

wurg

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I noticed yesterday that Man of the House is on Steam.

You have to patch Man of the house to make it incest, I'm sure the patch isn't on Steam.

There are tons of jokes about hillbillies hooking up with their cousins
The current Queen of England is married to her cousin, it's like a third cousin or farther, but they are still blood related. Royalty was well known in history to marry close family members, especially cousins. It happens everywhere.
 
Jun 27, 2018
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Yet the only consequences effectively seen in populations subject to strong inbreeding among history, is a reduction . They don't effectively have more recessive genes, they aren't effectively more subject to mutations, just less fertile.
makes mention of the idea of longstanding inbreeding rooting out genes incompatible with incest through natural selection, though not in those words, but mostly goes on to mention the great number of more-common-than-normal genetic disorders that occur in the various close-relative marrying cultural divisions of India.

The abstract of mentions much the same, but for the isolated Jewish communities of Iran and Iraq.

You seem rather knowledgeable of this subject, and I can only search about for what google deigns to offer me. I won't bother you further on it.

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.
 

Fonderu

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Oct 15, 2019
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This is a fun discussion, but I think you're coming at it from a strange angle. Incest is taboo in society even without the implication of babies. This isn't to say that society is right or wrong, just that it is.
Two sister having sex is definitely incest and will most likely be caught by patreon.
Now, should two sisters having sex be okay because there is no possibility of having a baby?
What about brother/sister if they use every means of protection?
The arguments that aren't biblical/society/eww come down to power dynamics that are somewhat removed when age is close (rather than mother/son)
So in my opinion for quite a few cases, people should be able to consent to this. Society is slow to change though, and it's difficult to change people's minds.
 
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Niteowl

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I think I should clarify that I wasn't planning on including any specific scene in my game. I was just curious about the perception of a relationship between sisters by society at large and patreon because it affects the work of devs.

Personally I think it's a bit of a silly taboo to have since modern contraception would prevent most drawbacks but I really don't care since I'm not interested in it in any way.
 

Niteowl

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Apr 6, 2018
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We also do not allow other fringe sexual fetish creations, such as incest, necrophilia, or fetish creations that is hard to distinguish from non-consensual sex.

We understand that some topics on this list such as incest or rape are a little bit more complicated because these situations are, unfortunately, part of real life. As a result, when reviewing these types of creations, the Trust and Safety team will take into consideration context including personal, historical or educational narrative. For example, survivor stories or fiction such as Game of Thrones or Lolita are allowed on Patreon.
As mentioned I'm not interested in using incest of any kind for a game.
Still, I have to say that this here is complete hypocrisy.
Game of thrones is nothing but pornography that doesn't actually show sexual organs and chooses instead to glorify all forms of cruelty and perversion, including incest and rape, which is at one point defined as a formative experience.
Regardless of how good the show is, I really do not believe anybody supporting it should have a right to judge the work of Hgames devs. Basically the Patreon TOS, I now have to assume, only means that indie devs have to be careful but big productions can do whatever they want. Money talks.
 
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Farnuge

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Mar 18, 2018
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As mentioned I'm not interested in using incest of any kind for a game.
Still, I have to say that this here is complete hypocrisy.
Game of thrones is nothing but pornography that doesn't actually show sexual organs and chooses instead to glorify all forms of cruelty and perversion, including incest and rape, which is at one point defined as a formative experience.
Regardless of how good the show is, I really do not believe anybody supporting it should have a right to judge the work of Hgames devs. Basically the Patreon TOS, I now have to assume, only means that indie devs have to be careful but big productions can do whatever they want. Money talks.
You miss the point of Game of Thrones entirely. Its about how horrible war and rape are. Its about how much damage incest does to a society (especially Jaime and Cersei's murderous attempts to cover it up). Ned dies because he learns about the incest. Bran is almost killed because he sees the incest. Robb starts a war because his dad dies and his brother is almost killed. Incest in GOT world is definitely looked down on by almost all of the characters in the book - but somehow you come away its basically porn because the two characters doing it are hot? A dwarf fucks a lot of people? One bisexual Dornish Prince?

GoT aside. The incest fetish has little to do with impregnation (though some get off on incest even more due to inbreeding), but due to its perversion, its general 'wrongness', and to a large degree - the closeness that some family members form. Some of that closeness is in the form of friendship, some of it is in the form of antagonism. A brother and sister that resist sexual urges and get along for many years and then suddenly one night something snaps and they give in. A mother and son who are constantly at each other's throats for years, when suddenly one of them becomes vulnerable and in a momentary lapse of character, sexual frustration is released. Its an exciting fetish because society tells us this was the wrong decision. The siblings could have just talked through things, found other people to experience sexual release with. The son and mother could have worked out their differences or found other partners to satisfy their sexual urges. A father and daughter that repair a shitty relationship with the one tool they know has repaired other shitty relationships - sex.

A sister sister relationship would be no different than those above - even without the risk of impregnation. Perhaps the scenario is they love each other like other siblings do - but confuse their own sexual frustrations - not having girlfriends or boyfriends - perhaps due to lack of experience, or fear of rejection - and take a different path - sexual release with someone they know, and trust absolutely. Their sister.

Please note - I do agree that society's views on incest is a bit hypocritcal, and in fact its society making incest Taboo that gives it a draw to a lot of people. Additionally, some societal, and religious views on sex skew some people towards the incest fetish. In the HBO series Big Love, the eldest son of the main character falls for one of his father's wives. Its a totally believable scenario - an attractive woman who doesn't get the full attention of her husband (who has 2 other wives), a confused young man who is told its wrong to have sex outside of marriage, but has had sexual urges for years. Both have to keep their sexual desires outside of marriage secret - who better to trust or share than family? Well aside from resisting, of course. But again, a lapse in judgement. Giving in to that basic instinct.

Or as you say, two girls who are decent, intelligent, respectable members of society, who want to experience sex, but fear being branded a slut because they don't know if their first, second, or third boyfriends might be that right match for them - so they experiment in secret, with someone they trust, someone who will equally suffer if word gets out.

And of course, yeah. There are some perverts that just have to fuck everything - family included, but they are the most base and crude form of incest, a character that has been done to death with all these games here, and I could see that you might be sick of incest if this is the only incestuous characters you come across.
 
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khumak

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Oct 2, 2017
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As mentioned I'm not interested in using incest of any kind for a game.
Still, I have to say that this here is complete hypocrisy.
Game of thrones is nothing but pornography that doesn't actually show sexual organs and chooses instead to glorify all forms of cruelty and perversion, including incest and rape, which is at one point defined as a formative experience.
Regardless of how good the show is, I really do not believe anybody supporting it should have a right to judge the work of Hgames devs. Basically the Patreon TOS, I now have to assume, only means that indie devs have to be careful but big productions can do whatever they want. Money talks.
There's always been a huge double standard for taboo subjects when it comes to what's considered art and what's pornography/etc. Shakespeare or some other high profile writer or artist gets a pass but if Joe Schmoe who nobody has heard of tries to do it then it's an outrage. It should either be allowed or not and who the artist is shouldn't matter. If it's ok for Shakespeare then it's ok for everyone.

Personally, I think our laws should lean towards allowing practically anything where nobody gets hurt. There's no actual incest or rape in Game of Thrones. They're actors. They all agreed to do those scenes. All of it is consensual and nobody is blood related. So even if rape and incest are illegal, a fake representation of it shouldn't be IMO. Rape and incest happen in real life. Art, literature, etc should be able to address those issues. I think Lolita type stuff is ok as well as long as all of the actors involved can prove their age because there's no actual underaged content being produced. It's fake. I might still find it repulsive if an actor really looks like they're 12 or whatever but it's still fake. So it should be legal.

I think it's a bit stranger to draw a line in the sand when there's no actors involved and it's all renders. I have no interest in underage content so a total ban is fine with me but if it's all just fake renders I really don't care one way or the other. I would certainly never play anything where the characters looked that young, but as long as there are no real live underaged people involved I don't see the legal issue.
 

kytee

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Dec 17, 2018
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I love incest in my porn and in my games, but I think it's disgusting in real life and shouldn't be condoned. The reason being the family power dynamics at play in the home has massive negative potential. This could be in the form of blackmail, rape, and worst of all, brainwash. If incest was allowed, what's to stop a father from raising his daughter up as his own personal cocksleeve? If someone tried doing that today and were caught, it'd be breaking news and the dude would be castrated in prison. Home exists as a safe space away from unwanted sexual attention, but what happens if said unwanted attention comes from inside the home? I have a little cousin who was raped by her dad's cousin multiple times but never spoke a word about it because he was family. I'm afraid that allowing incest is just a gateway drug for more depraved shit.
 

おい!

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Mar 25, 2018
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As mentioned I'm not interested in using incest of any kind for a game.
Still, I have to say that this here is complete hypocrisy.
Game of thrones is nothing but pornography that doesn't actually show sexual organs and chooses instead to glorify all forms of cruelty and perversion, including incest and rape, which is at one point defined as a formative experience.
Regardless of how good the show is, I really do not believe anybody supporting it should have a right to judge the work of Hgames devs. Basically the Patreon TOS, I now have to assume, only means that indie devs have to be careful but big productions can do whatever they want. Money talks.
But you asked the question in your OP

What would patrons TOS say about this?
Just curious
So I replied, if you did not want a response, why ask the question?o_O
 

Niteowl

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Apr 6, 2018
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But you asked the question in your OP



So I replied, if you did not want a response, why ask the question?o_O
Look my original question was just about whether sex between sisters was considered incest, and mostly meant as intellectual curiosity.
I apologize for causing such a strong reaction.
By the way I got an answer for that and I'm cool with it.

All other comments were more of a philosophical nature. Yes in real life incest must be horrible, and as I stated several times I don't even like it in games.
My only point was that imo it's pretty strange that showing fictional killings in every movie is perfectly okay. Yet a girl kissing her sister is a lot worse.
The TOS is what it is, but we have a right to our opinions and I still think tv shows like GOT can be just as much of a negative influence as hentai games and yet they're tolerated. All I'm saying is that some things are really weird in our society.
 
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215303j

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In several countries, incest between consenting adults (!!) is not illegal.
Every country can make it's own collective mind up on the matter, and so can a company like Patreon.

In my opinion, an increased chance of birth defects can be dealt with nowadays.

What remains is the relationship dynamic.
I can imagine it can get pretty confusing.
Sex and love are complicated enough already.

Imagine two young adult sisters.
They have very little experience in love and sex and decide to experiment with each other.
For sister 1 it's just harmless fun, sister 2 finds out she's actually a lesbian and falls in love.
The love can't be reciprocated because sister 1 just doesn't tick that way.
Those two have A LOT of awkward Christmas dinners in their future...

Still, as a porn game player, I think it's hot and I don't need to deal with those dinners in the future...
 
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