mordred93

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Jul 21, 2017
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I don't completely disagree, however:
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I have studied law, and know people get out of pre-nups all the time based on things you would think that would not be an issue with one. The big one is fairness. If the pre-nup is not fair to the other party, it can be voided.

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galora

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I guess we just don't have filters.

None of our dads are creeps or they hide it well but we've had some drunk conversations infront of most of them usually involving boobs.

They have never been weird about it although some of them do make the occasional joke which I guess is their attempt at telling us to shut the fuck up and maybe change the subject.

Only time a conversation has ever got strange infront of one of our dads was during my best friends 21st when the conversation turned to sex toys and we had to explain what a dragon dildo was, he looked at us like we'd all sprouted an extra head and webbed toes.

Most of our dads are pretty cool, they don't mind putting up with our nonsense.

I suppose it depends how comfortable people are with each other. Our group has been friends for years now, since we were tots, so we all know each other and our families really well.
Hahah! I don't know my family is pretty prudish/neurotic ... Friends is another thing, but even being drunk I don't believe we would let loose that much in my families! I hope I have the same relationship as you with your parents with my children when I get them, I do believe it's the right relationship to have.

The closest thing to sex-talk with my parents is engraved in my memory forever, my mom told me when I just started dating, that if my gf was satisfied in bed the whole relationship would be better... I'm sure that I'm paraphrasing but I do believe it is very good advice for any young man :LOL:
 
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mordred93

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But "no fault" is about the divorce procedure right? Not the prenup which generally does include clauses about protecting the peron that doesn't have fault in the divorce... They clearly or at least the MC is clearly just going for the normal, we don't love each other anymore divorce.
"no fault" means that one person does not have to be assigned blame for the divorce. In the past, someone had to do something "cheat, break vows, etc." with proof they did something for the divorce to occur. With no "fault", anyone can kill a marriage, for any reason. It is just used as the reason for divorce, actual fault (circumstances around the marriage) can be used in terms of distribution of assets in the divorce proceedings. This is why the Ex pulled her shit to try to get more money at the meeting with the judge.
 

galora

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I have studied law, and know people get out of pre-nups all the time based on things you would think that would not be an issue with one. The big one is fairness. If the pre-nup is not fair to the other party, it can be voided.

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Well I'd love to hear more. We would have to ask the dev to write up the prenup and give some further information on the valuation of the house (at least location and build year we could extrapolate from there) as well as the stuff inside. ;)
Could the judge have forced her to split the house even if the MC gives it up? And could her cheating make the prenup hold even if her lawyer argues it's void for some other reason?

Thanks a bunch already
 

galora

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"no fault" means that one person does not have to be assigned blame for the divorce. In the past, someone had to do something "cheat, break vows, etc." with proof they did something for the divorce to occur. With no "fault", anyone can kill a marriage, for any reason. It is just used as the reason for divorce, actual fault (circumstances around the marriage) can be used in terms of distribution of assets in the divorce proceedings. This is why the Ex pulled her shit to try to get more money at the meeting with the judge.
But it does look in the game, like they aren't assigning blame... Why would she try to do so, if there was a case for abuse how would it turn out with the assets?
 

mordred93

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Surprised you actually have kids with that response, but maybe that would be the way it would fly in your family - every one is different. I'm sure it wouldn't play out that way in mine and even disregarding that it actually does play out differently in this story, from what we see of Abby and Frank's relationship both before and after this branch I'm not surprised in the least that she reacts this way. Sure she loves Frank. Completely and totally - even more than she can admit to herself. Which is part of the reason it would end this way. Between her own feelings which she has not even begun to accept (only Becca has at this point) and the conditioning she's been getting from Lilith, it seems natural to me she would instantly feel defensive and/or betrayed. She would also feel - and Frank would agree - that he is/was/should have been the one who should have stopped the situation from getting to that point. Again, the Game Over doesn't say that she and her sisters completely and totally sever all interaction with Frank (at least, I don't remember it saying that) but in the game scenario it doesn't take a total excommunication to effectively end. Just that there is no longer a chance of Frank bringing the girls into his harem. The girls will talk. Lilly will never trust Frank at all ever again and the other two... well Becca might be ok but Abby would take a long time to rebuild that trust. By which time she'll have moved on in her romantic interests and the window will have closed. I think that is not an unreasonable reaction.
It all depends on how your family works. I have open conversation with my kids (twins, 25, 1 boy, 1 girl). No subject was taboo. My kids didn't have a mother (she died), so if they wanted an answer from someone, they asked me, friends, a girl friend I had at the time, or a friends parents. My daughter trusted me and 90% of the time would talk to me. I have held her hair as she puked, I have gotten her to bed drunk, I have seen her naked (she was in my shower because brother was in theirs), she has seen me naked (I was dressing and she walked in. It is no big deal if you don't make it a big deal. I look at the human body as a body, like a doctor, things do certain functions, and if you deal with it like that, nothing really gets in the way. She is smart and knows when things get weird, so you don't let them get weird, and move on.

Like Avaron1974 was talking about Boobs, Periods, Toys, and Boys .. Things that I know about (clinically) and not practically, so I can listen and repeat what I hear/know. That is what a good friend does, and at this point I am more of a friend than a parent.
 

mordred93

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Sorry but I don't like the "I am sexually attracted so I can take anything you do sexual". I can separate my feelings from others' intentions. The fact that she is sexually attracted does increases the chance she can see actions sexually, but cannot conclude it IS sexually. That is the point here. She jumps and leaves no other interpretation possible, when MC has clearly not shown himself as a sexual predator but as a loving father. Her attraction cannot justify that.
The very fact that she gives him no benefit of doubt is the problem here.
Agreed in some ways. Depends on her experience in dealing with the emotions of sexual relationships (or perceived sexual relationships). The way this was written, she had zero (or near zero) experience with dealing with sexual emotions. Playing with a step-sister is not a sexual relationship, that is pure getting off/masturbation. Relationships suck and trying to get through is hard. Do you remember your first crush? Do you remember your first "damn I want to jump his/her bones" relationship? How did that turn out? She doesn't know how her father is reacting and doesn't know what to expect from a guy who has been married twice, and had a few girlfriends before. Her in-experience could be showing, and that would lead to the "rash" decisions. I can see it, but it is not how every person is, I agree.
 
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mordred93

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But it does look in the game, like they aren't assigning blame... Why would she try to do so, if there was a case for abuse how would it turn out with the assets?
Blame doesn't need to be established to initiate the divorce proceedings (the court case to divorce someone). Blame can be used in extreme examples to nullify a pre-nup, to sway the judge that one person was so bad that living with this person was so horrible that divorce is the only option (to make one party look sympathetic to the judge). It is all about perceptions. Which is why the ex pulled the shit she did in the proceedings, to try to sway the judge into throwing out the pre-nup making everything go in her favor.
 

mordred93

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Well I'd love to hear more. We would have to ask the dev to write up the prenup and give some further information on the valuation of the house (at least location and build year we could extrapolate from there) as well as the stuff inside. ;)
Could the judge have forced her to split the house even if the MC gives it up? And could her cheating make the prenup hold even if her lawyer argues it's void for some other reason?

Thanks a bunch already
From a legal perspective it is all about fair and equitable. Meaning that both parties get about the same amount, and this it is fair to both parties that are not getting screwed out of the divorce. The mother is not getting "screwed", she is getting the majority of the joint assets (the pre-nup covers the condo so it is not in the marriage assets). The judge could have forced her to sell the house, and split the assets, yes. This is why Frank was such a stand up guy and said he is not contesting the house, and giving it to the ex. So she has a place to live, and Lilly/Becca have a place to call home. He had his already protected condo. The cars and money, he contested and it was split down the middle.

As for if the pre-nup holding it depends on how [well] it is written. Most that I have seen have clauses for infidelity, length of marriage, death/beneficiaries, etc. Since she cheated that clause would have kicked in and she would have gotten nothing. However there is typically a morals clause in a pre-nup (since again - it has to be fair to both parties, which is where many get thrown out), which states that if Frank did something to destroy the marriage, the pre-nup is null and void. This is what she was trying to invoke by her wild accusations at the end of the meeting. At that point, the judge, could have basically said a couple of things. One, she had a house, he had a condo (since everything else was split down the middle, assuming the same value). She was probably hoping to weigh on sympathy from the judge and get more. She got a judge that saw through her shit. A different judge might have been more sympathetic, and done something completely different.
 
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galora

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From a legal perspective it is all about fair and equitable. Meaning that both parties get about the same amount, and this it is fair to both parties that are not getting screwed out of the divorce. The mother is not getting "screwed", she is getting the majority of the joint assets (the pre-nup covers the condo so it is not in the marriage assets). The judge could have forced her to sell the house, and split the assets, yes. This is why Frank was such a stand up guy and said he is not contesting the house, and giving it to the ex. So she has a place to live, and Lilly/Becca have a place to call home. He had his already protected condo. The cars and money, he contested and it was split down the middle.

As for if the pre-nup holding it depends on how [well] it is written. Most that I have seen have clauses for infidelity, length of marriage, death/beneficiaries, etc. Since she cheated that clause would have kicked in and she would have gotten nothing. However there is typically a morals clause in a pre-nup (since again - it has to be fair to both parties, which is where many get thrown out), which states that if Frank did something to destroy the marriage, the pre-nup is null and void. This is what she was trying to invoke by her wild accusations at the end of the meeting. At that point, the judge, could have basically said a couple of things. One, she had a house, he had a condo (since everything else was split down the middle, assuming the same value). She was probably hoping to weigh on sympathy from the judge and get more. She got a judge that saw through her shit. A different judge might have been more sympathetic, and done something completely different.
Again thank you what would that judge have done differently. Ignoring the issue of the ruling in the abuse case that could have been opened, if that trial would have been ruled in favor of the ex-wife, would she get a larger part of the assets, all seem a bit overboard, or is it completely at the judges discretion?
 

mordred93

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Again thank you what would that judge have done differently. Ignoring the issue of the ruling in the abuse case that could have been opened, if that trial would have been ruled in favor of the ex-wife, would she get a larger part of the assets, all seem a bit overboard, or is it completely at the judges discretion?
Not to get too technical - but this was not a trial, this was probably binding arbitration. The two parties (Frank and his ex) thought they didn't want a long drawn out trial, and they decided to have the quicker route. It was not done in a court room, there was no court recorder (stenographer), no lawyers, etc. It was just a judge, and the two parties in the marriage. Judges have rules they follow, and the judge recorded the proceedings. They have special things or circumstances they must follow if they go off the "standard" path of splitting things down the middle. The legal system rules on one motion of law at a time. So if you noted (again this dev either did their homework, or just was lucky ;) The judge went through the assets as follows:
* Ruled on the house
* Ruled on the money
* Ruled on the cars
* Ruled on the pre-nup
* Ruled on alimony

At the end - who won or who lost doesn't matter, they went through the assets and determined how they were going to go one at a time without making it "fair". Frank could have been a big dick and said he wanted 0.5 of the house. With this judge, he could have gotten it, but he didn't contest it because he wanted to make the proceeding amicable and get it over with.
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mordred93

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Yeah another overreaction, treating Frank like he has been acting like a creep for years touching them inappropriately and so on instead of a loving and supportive stepfather who behaved himself all these years.
I never said it wasn't an overreaction - I merely stated that Abby does kick out Frank if you go off the happy path.
 

mordred93

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Yes, I can tell you from lived experience that that part of the story was some of the greatest fiction ever told.
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It honestly depends on where you live, and the scenario that is at play. For the scenario presented, I think it was actually pretty representative of what would have happened IRL, even if you swapped gender roles for the two parties. Usually what happens IRL is one party has a ton more income than the other, and there are no pre-nup assets to consider. Kids given priority live in the house, and most kids go with mother. Then Alimony and split everything else 50% down the middle.
 
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