Some concepts I have been thinking on how to write corruption/NTR.

[NTR Sommelier]

Since I want to write NTR in the near future I came up with some concepts to help me write corruption and I want to share with you guys:

1. The trigger. The trigger is what sets up the chain of events that lead to the heroine corruption. The trigger needs to be powerful enough to start things but at the same time believeable enough that it doesn't break immersion. Many writes fall into the trap of relying on rape/blackmail but to me that is just lazy. Actual seduction is way sexier.

2. The ladder. The ladder is a way to help visualize the progession in your character's corruption. In step 0 of the ladder you start with the way a character is before things start and then on step 10 you describe what your character will be like in the end. After this you fill in the steps and plan the progression. The numbers 0 to 10 are of course arbitrary, you can have as many steps as you want.

3. The "SPS". The smallest possible step implies that there is a logical progression for corruption for example, if a wife is already taking creampies from her lover then there is no sense for her to resist giving a blowjob, that is because a creampie is far more profound than a blowjob. After each step you should ask yourself: What is the smallest possible step for my character to the corrupted?

4. The consequences. Many VNs fall into this trap. After a hot sex scene that should have major implications a character wakes up next day and acts as if nothing has happened which of course destroys the corruption progression feeling. Characters should reflect about what happened and this should be shown by changes in their thoughts and actions. Internal monologues are great for this!

Well these are ideas I came up, let me know what you think and we will discuss it further.

 

[Deleted member 5410619]

Sounds like you got the basis of corruption right.
Not into ntr(I came because of the corruption part of the title)
But corruption wise you seem to understand the important of pacing, progression and reaction(and 4: Reaction is often overlooked. The amount of times games even acknowledge people existing outside of the main cast or even the main cast noticing a change can be counted one 1 hand)

 

[Catapo]

Actual seduction is way sexier.

Agreed but only if written properly.

Corny lines like "Hey baby girl, your ass is looking mighty fine today" might get a chuckle from my girlfriend who knows my dumb ass but it's probably not going to work on a random girl especially one who is already in a relationship.
Meanwhile lines like "If you do a little something for me I will make sure to keep your secret" will have more of an effect.

Basically the point I am trying to make is that it is somewhat easier to write some cheap form of blackmail over proper seduction and I for one would better appreciate a mediocre blackmail story that makes some kind of sense over a badly written seduction attempt that magically works.

2. The ladder

Absolutely a good idea to have a final destination for your character corruption wise and slowly work towards that.
Bonus points if there are multiple different ends that the characters can reach and/or different ways to reach said ends.

After each step you should ask yourself: What is the smallest possible step for my character to the corrupted?

I agree with this...

there is no sense for her to resist giving a blowjob, that is because a creampie is far more profound than a blowjob.

... not so much with this.
I feel like a bit of a pitfall in adult games is that devs assign a certain value to sex acts. It usually goes like: Kissing < Handjob < Blowjob < Sex < Anal < Creampie.

What is wrong with a woman who lets her lover creampie her but refuses to give a blowjob because she doesn't get any pleasure out of it ? or one that refuses anal because she finds the act disgusting ? or refuses kissing because she still associates it with romantic feelings ?

The values for the acts and the willingness for them should be determined based on your character.

I mostly talked just from an NTR perspective since with corruption it kind of depends how low do you want your character to fall.

Characters should reflect about what happened and this should be shown by changes in their thoughts and actions. Internal monologues are great for this!

This is only if you follow one of the characters involved in the sex acts ( the wife or the lover).

If you follow the husband for example you would have to show this differently like through subtle dialogue or changes in appearence and behaviour but yes consequences and reactions are really important.

So yeah in the end I think your head is in the right place and I am interested to see what you would come up with.
Good luck with that

 

[NTR Sommelier]

Agreed but only if written properly.

Corny lines like "Hey baby girl, your ass is looking mighty fine today" might get a chuckle from my girlfriend who knows my dumb ass but it's probably not going to work on a random girl especially one who is already in a relationship.
Meanwhile lines like "If you do a little something for me I will make sure to keep your secret" will have more of an effect.

Basically the point I am trying to make is that it is somewhat easier to write some cheap form of blackmail over proper seduction and I for one would better appreciate a mediocre blackmail story that makes some kind of sense over a badly written seduction attempt that magically works.


Absolutely a good idea to have a final destination for your character corruption wise and slowly work towards that.
Bonus points if there are multiple different ends that the characters can reach and/or different ways to reach said ends.


I agree with this...


... not so much with this.
I feel like a bit of a pitfall in adult games is that devs assign a certain value to sex acts. It usually goes like: Kissing < Handjob < Blowjob < Sex < Anal < Creampie.

What is wrong with a woman who lets her lover creampie her but refuses to give a blowjob because she doesn't get any pleasure out of it ? or one that refuses anal because she finds the act disgusting ? or refuses kissing because she still associates it with romantic feelings ?

The values for the acts and the willingness for them should be determined based on your character.

I mostly talked just from an NTR perspective since with corruption it kind of depends how low do you want your character to fall.


This is only if you follow one of the characters involved in the sex acts ( the wife or the lover).

If you follow the husband for example you would have to show this differently like through subtle dialogue or changes in appearence and behaviour but yes consequences and reactions are really important.

So yeah in the end I think your head is in the right place and I am interested to see what you would come up with.
Good luck with that

Yes, you are correct. Even though the sexual corruption should have a logical progression, the specific acts should vary considering the individual characters's worldview and value system.

 

[Deleted member 5563201]

relying on rape/blackmail but to me that is just lazy

It is totally unrealistic to use rape as a trigger for corruption. I've been with some women who have been raped, they distance themselves from sex. And after that distance exists, they miss it, but not with the man who sexually assaulted them.

The problem is that many of the game developers don't know how to write good stories and also want to start from the point that the girl has never been sexually curious in her life, so she is totally innocent, which is unrealistic.

My first girlfriend, when she cheated on me for the first time, did it because she thought that she and I would have no future (because we dated online and had never seen each other in person, which I proved wrong a few weeks later).

It's okay to write, within a story about corruption, about a girl who has had a few minor sexual experiences in her life and who has her fetishes and desires. Corruption may well be about morals and fidelity rather than the things she learns to like.

And I agree with Catapo's answers.

You are on the right path and I would love to follow your work.

 

[drowsy]

I echo the sentiments of others here. Good stuff.

Mostly, I agree with your point about seduction being more interesting than blackmail, as a general rule with some exceptions.

To me, NTR is about the will/ego getting the upper hand over the conscience/superego. The antagonistic male (that is, the female's lover(s)) represents the will, doing what you really want, while the male MC represents the conscience, doing what you think is right.

The thing about blackmail is that it allows the fem MC a way of rationalizing her corruption. That can (1) be used wisely, as a way of "easing her in" and making the corruption more gradual and believable. In that case the blackmail really just serves as a pretext: it is either the male MC or female MC's way of rationalizing the corruption. In reality the female MC desired the cheating anyway (but might have resisted/suppressed it without the blackmail).

But it can also (2) be used badly, if the female actually ends up not being led by her desire but by her conscience. For example, if there is blackmail that might lead to the male MC's death and the female goes along with some 'cheating' action to save her boyfriend's life, that is pretty lame in my opinion. The female MC is just doing something she really doesn't want to do but feels like she has to -- this is the case even though she might experience momentary pleasure from the act of cheating itself.

Note though, strange as it might sound, in the scenario (1) above, the "blackmail" was a (shady) form of seduction. It was a carrot in front of the female MC, leading her along to admit (to herself and her lover(s)) what she wanted, not a stick whipping her into doing anything she didn't actually want. So that's how I think "blackmail" (but is it really?) can be used with some effectiveness, even though seduction is the better option.

 

[zuulan]

You have right. But i also think Corruption should be multi-tiered. Like Core corruption, that is place where is no way back, it is part of you alwayz. and surface corruption that increases you will be allow to do things but allows also to decrease it back to core corruption level.

Core corruption should increase after big thresholds. Like if you are working as a prostitute or sleeping around alot you never be pure how much you try and there is always that trigger you will cheat and sleep around given change. Same time, if you have had single releationship and no real treshholds on corruption then you can do things with your loved one, but if you go into new releationship you need break certain thresholds again and also increse core corruption slightly.

Things that should increase core corruption is Public sex, anal, filming, Threesomes and groups, and facials.

And i think NTR should be avoidable, Plot can try to drive it towards NTR, but it should be avoidable. by weighted decisions, like spend more time with your LI or you need realy close that business deal or work hard promotion, or help out friend in need, so you make decisions, but decisions should be believable.

 

[Doorknob22]

Since I want to write NTR in the near future I came up with some concepts to help me write corruption and I want to share with you guys:

1. The trigger. The trigger is what sets up the chain of events that lead to the heroine corruption. The trigger needs to be powerful enough to start things but at the same time believeable enough that it doesn't break immersion. Many writes fall into the trap of relying on rape/blackmail but to me that is just lazy. Actual seduction is way sexier.

2. The ladder. The ladder is a way to help visualize the progession in your character's corruption. In step 0 of the ladder you start with the way a character is before things start and then on step 10 you describe what your character will be like in the end. After this you fill in the steps and plan the progression. The numbers 0 to 10 are of course arbitrary, you can have as many steps as you want.

3. The "SPS". The smallest possible step implies that there is a logical progression for corruption for example, if a wife is already taking creampies from her lover then there is no sense for her to resist giving a blowjob, that is because a creampie is far more profound than a blowjob. After each step you should ask yourself: What is the smallest possible step for my character to the corrupted?

4. The consequences. Many VNs fall into this trap. After a hot sex scene that should have major implications a character wakes up next day and acts as if nothing has happened which of course destroys the corruption progression feeling. Characters should reflect about what happened and this should be shown by changes in their thoughts and actions. Internal monologues are great for this!

Well these are ideas I came up, let me know what you think and we will discuss it further.

1. These are essentially the steps of all erotic creation. You have two characters who are not supposed to have sex because they are not in a relationship which allows it and you slowly "storytell" your way until you create one which (even if said relationship is corrupt and immoral) which does.

2. Beware of SPS "templates" for they might leads you to a formulistic story. As a writer, you may start with vaginal sex before oral. For the character it might be a one time thing or simply the lady is reluctant to suck cock. The whole Grope -> Handjob -> Blowjob -> Vaginal -> Anal flowchart was done a million times and while it does have a logical explanation, when you have X LIs in the game and the progression with each is identical, it may feel repetitive. Yes, even in corruption you might have an LI who prefers to take it in the ass rather than kiss you for her own reasons, and it's your job as a writer to find realistic ones (For example: anal is "just sex" and kissing is cheating). People crave what they can't have and if that LI would rather allow you to fuck her ass than kiss her, you'll see players losing their shit once she finally allows the MC to slip his tongue between her lips.

 

[Deleted member 5563201]

I don't know how you want to write the NTR plot, I imagine it's girlfriend/wife corruption.
However, have you ever imagined that it could be the corruption of the boyfriend/husband?
Seriously, his reaction to the girlfriend/wife's actions, a reverse trainer from the boyfriend/husband's perspective, how others outside the relationship perceive and treat him (games don't take characters outside the relationship into account, and that could create the nice dynamic). I don't think this was ever done, if it was I don't remember.

 

[NTR Sommelier]

Thanks everyone for your responses, I'm learning a lot!

 

[Ophanim]

Since I want to write NTR in the near future I came up with some concepts to help me write corruption and I want to share with you guys:

1. The trigger. The trigger is what sets up the chain of events that lead to the heroine corruption. The trigger needs to be powerful enough to start things but at the same time believeable enough that it doesn't break immersion. Many writes fall into the trap of relying on rape/blackmail but to me that is just lazy. Actual seduction is way sexier.

2. The ladder. The ladder is a way to help visualize the progession in your character's corruption. In step 0 of the ladder you start with the way a character is before things start and then on step 10 you describe what your character will be like in the end. After this you fill in the steps and plan the progression. The numbers 0 to 10 are of course arbitrary, you can have as many steps as you want.

3. The "SPS". The smallest possible step implies that there is a logical progression for corruption for example, if a wife is already taking creampies from her lover then there is no sense for her to resist giving a blowjob, that is because a creampie is far more profound than a blowjob. After each step you should ask yourself: What is the smallest possible step for my character to the corrupted?

4. The consequences. Many VNs fall into this trap. After a hot sex scene that should have major implications a character wakes up next day and acts as if nothing has happened which of course destroys the corruption progression feeling. Characters should reflect about what happened and this should be shown by changes in their thoughts and actions. Internal monologues are great for this!

Well these are ideas I came up, let me know what you think and we will discuss it further.

To me, a lot of corruption stories share similarity with sexual liberation stories. As in, learning to ignore that little voice in the back of your head that calls you a slut for wanting to enjoy sex the way men do without even thinking about it. I think that's probably why drowsy 's comment about blackmail being a rationalization for acting on one's desires resonated with me a fair bit. You don't have to internally hate yourself as much for wanting to fuck if you can rationalize it as a coerced thing you 'had to do', which is very similar to a lot of the ways romance novels are written by and for women. The threat of seduction by some rakeish lothario type was a way for women in a pretty repressive society to get their kink on in books without being seen as damaged property, pretty much, and that principle carries forward when talking about dubcon today.

So I agree that seduction is a far more interesting route to take an NTR/Corruption story, because it gives the woman some agency in what is, at least nominally, her story of choosing between (I assume?) a male MC and someone else. What she wants, and how she feels about MC vs seductive boi is, like, the core of your story, even if it's not told from her perspective. So give her the depth and agency she needs, as the center of a love/sex triangle (or more), and if the end result is her discovering her love of puppy play or polycules or whatever, she shouldn't be passive in her enjoyment of such by the time the curtains fall. Make it a fetish of hers that she discovered, or something, rather than something inherent to 'all women' or whatever. Even the most submissive of drones are making an active and conscious choice to be so, and it's probably more impactful that way anyway.

With that in mind, rung 0 of your ladder probably shouldn't be 'literal fetus, does not understand the concept of put peen in vagoo', because if you go check goodreads or AO3 for a second, most women over the age of 16 are horny af and quite aware of basic sex stuff, and past a certain point, pretending otherwise feels intensely silly. Honestly, if she had a weird fetish that MC wasn't willing to satisfy for her, because he's super vanilla, that would make her temptation to cheat that much more believable haha

SPS doesn't really make sense unless you believe corruption is a literal force in-universe though. Honestly, moving from 'sex in seducer guy's car' to 'sex in the bed I share with my partner' to 'sex on our bed while he's home' is a far more profound progression of betrayal and loss for the MC than whether giving a blowie or having someone cum inside you makes you more 'used goods' on some metaphysical scale of purity. I've always found that aspect of corruption narratives to be really silly, sorry.

The other problem with the 'she secretly enjoyed it' narrative of rapey corruption is something my partner just mentioned. From the man's perspective, even if the woman is enjoying the act for reasons we talked about above, he's still raping someone as far as he knows because there's usually little to no communication beforehand. So like, things get hella icky if you picture the scene from his POV for any length of time, because as far as he knows, he's actually a rapist. I'd like to think most guys, at least, would feel conflict/disgust at this concept. You would hope.

Oh, and regarding rape... people can derive sexual pleasure from nonconsensual stuff, but that's not the same as consent or 'enjoyment'. You can feel aroused and violated at the same time, which is part of what makes actual noncon so fucking terrifying. I can't imagine a world where that feeling would lead someone to want more of the same, tbh, which makes stories based on that idea fall a bit flat for me.

This comment sort of got away from me. I mainly wanted to say 'yeah, drowsy's point about blackmail narratives feels correct', but here, have a rant ig