Some pointers

Jun 27, 2017
6
7
Hello everyone,

I've been stalking the site for a while and I'm looking into creating a game after having played so many. Sorry if this is in the wrong place by the way, but I have some questions.
As a programmer, where do I get art? Art people won't hate me for stealing and art I won't need to cough up money for. I ask because for better or worse I've noticed the comments on the website when a game pops up and it's text based. Sure enough my game would be text based too. Is there something out there people use to get around the lack of art?

(Note I'm perfectly happy to stick the name of the artist on every image given. That'd work too.)

Also what's your take on HTML games? I for instance do not like RPGM.

I'm also trying to figure what people are more keen on for settings. The modern world aka our world? Fantasy? Sci-Fi? Cyberpunk? Post Apocalypse?

Think of this as sampling what people like/might be looking for. So go wild with your replies. ( That's if anyone replies :| )
 
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RogueKnightUK

Co-Writer: Retrieving The Past
Game Developer
Jul 10, 2018
913
2,402
If an artist was posting this expecting to get great custom coding for free, what would you be really thinking of his chances?

If you create a text based game first, you don't have to wait, and while it will not get the same results as a game with art, it will still be a 'proof of your skills' in creating a story, gameplay, and code, so that you could show that to artists you might team up with for a joint venture.
 

Volta

Well-Known Member
Apr 27, 2017
1,010
1,152
Oh polywog, always with the hard reality.

But honestly, text based games can do fine, for those of us old enough to remember AIF(if not look it up, goblinboy ect.), some of the best AIF was image free, not that images aren't great but you don't need loads of visuals to make a good game.

Fundamentally there are three roles to fill IMO: Programmer, Writer and Artist(be it 3dcg, 2d art, photo images ect.) do you intend to write and program? do you want an artist to work with you or do you want to commission art piece by piece the way some text based games do? (night games and monster girl dreams do this, both good BFRPGs that are text based).

The way i see it is like this:
The programmer is responsible for how the game runs, gameplay, UI, how things are handled like choices, inventory, battle system(where appropriate), under the hood stuff ec.

The writer is responsible for the story, dialogue, characterisation, setting ect.

The Artist is the low man on the totem pole in a lot of ways, he just fulfils the remit set out by the writer, that said he is probably the guy who has the biggest effect on bringing in players.

I know, that's all fine and stuff but how does that help you? well you've got the programmer on board already, which is actually one of the harder people to find, part of the reason so many stick to ren'py is the ease of programming in ren'py meaning that they can get by with minimal coding skills. this means you don't have to stick to the "standard" model of ren'py or RPGM +DAZ(3dcg program, used in probably 50% of the games on this site at this point, it's not that hard to learn and i'll get to that in a moment) this means i see a few ways forward for you:

You've got programming down, so why not try to learn one of the other two main skills, writing or art? well i suspect you already, as for writing this is both the easiest to get into and the hardest to master. Stories are subjective, i love Tolkien but my SO would sooner pry her eyes out than read the description of the shire again, write what you would like to read but do it as well as possible, if you're interested look into something called "narratology" or the study of storytelling and narrative, it's pretty interesting IMO. As a note to this in what presumably is going to be a 18+ sex game you need to think about what fetishes your going to be playing to, no point in aiming for a fetish you really don't like, you won't do it justice, I personally couldn't make a game oriented around peep, it just feels creepy to me. In addition a really great blog post i read by an adult auther put it this way(roughly), "in an action movie the action has to advance the plot, in adult writing the sex has to advance the plot" basically the sex can't just be "tacked on" if you want the story to work well.

As for learning art, well some like the creator of good girl gone bad trace images, creating there own derivative artwork that they can use as the want, others pick up relatively easy to use 3dcg programs like honey select or DAZ, i'm familiar with DAZ as i've been playing around with it for a couple of years now, i'm still well bellow what a good dev can do but there are daz game devs out there worse than me and i have no background in photography, 3d art, modelling, rendering or any of that stuff and i've not exactly been pouring hours into it either, amazing what you can do with a few good tutorials, forum posts and trial and error.

IMO try something small first, remember the old AIF minicomp's?, no? well the idea is to have a small sex game limited to three rooms and make it fast a lean, then submit them for judges to compare and then they would be released together as a variety bucket sort of affair, i was a fan personally. What i mean is think of a nice simple "easy" text based game to stretch our legs on, get some writing practise in and come back in a few months and try to recruit an artist, or try DAZ.

One final note on setting, people seem to like (in order of what i think preference is): modern contemporary, fantasy, post apoc, sci-fi. now the end of that list is missing cyberpunk, that's because that is IMO a little of both post apoc and sci-fi, but by miles modern is the most commonly used, then fantasy then "the rest", but honestly do what you want to do, if you find modern boring go for something else, make a game you want to make.
 

polywog

Forum Fanatic
May 19, 2017
4,062
6,270
Oh polywog, always with the hard reality.

But honestly, text based games can do fine, for those of us old enough to remember AIF(if not look it up, goblinboy ect.), some of the best AIF was image free, not that images aren't great but you don't need loads of visuals to make a good game.

Fundamentally there are three roles to fill IMO: Programmer, Writer and Artist(be it 3dcg, 2d art, photo images ect.) do you intend to write and program? do you want an artist to work with you or do you want to commission art piece by piece the way some text based games do? (night games and monster girl dreams do this, both good BFRPGs that are text based).

The way i see it is like this:
The programmer is responsible for how the game runs, gameplay, UI, how things are handled like choices, inventory, battle system(where appropriate), under the hood stuff ec.

The writer is responsible for the story, dialogue, characterisation, setting ect.

The Artist is the low man on the totem pole in a lot of ways, he just fulfils the remit set out by the writer, that said he is probably the guy who has the biggest effect on bringing in players.

I know, that's all fine and stuff but how does that help you? well you've got the programmer on board already, which is actually one of the harder people to find, part of the reason so many stick to ren'py is the ease of programming in ren'py meaning that they can get by with minimal coding skills. this means you don't have to stick to the "standard" model of ren'py or RPGM +DAZ(3dcg program, used in probably 50% of the games on this site at this point, it's not that hard to learn and i'll get to that in a moment) this means i see a few ways forward for you:

You've got programming down, so why not try to learn one of the other two main skills, writing or art? well i suspect you already, as for writing this is both the easiest to get into and the hardest to master. Stories are subjective, i love Tolkien but my SO would sooner pry her eyes out than read the description of the shire again, write what you would like to read but do it as well as possible, if you're interested look into something called "narratology" or the study of storytelling and narrative, it's pretty interesting IMO. As a note to this in what presumably is going to be a 18+ sex game you need to think about what fetishes your going to be playing to, no point in aiming for a fetish you really don't like, you won't do it justice, I personally couldn't make a game oriented around peep, it just feels creepy to me. In addition a really great blog post i read by an adult auther put it this way(roughly), "in an action movie the action has to advance the plot, in adult writing the sex has to advance the plot" basically the sex can't just be "tacked on" if you want the story to work well.

As for learning art, well some like the creator of good girl gone bad trace images, creating there own derivative artwork that they can use as the want, others pick up relatively easy to use 3dcg programs like honey select or DAZ, i'm familiar with DAZ as i've been playing around with it for a couple of years now, i'm still well bellow what a good dev can do but there are daz game devs out there worse than me and i have no background in photography, 3d art, modelling, rendering or any of that stuff and i've not exactly been pouring hours into it either, amazing what you can do with a few good tutorials, forum posts and trial and error.

IMO try something small first, remember the old AIF minicomp's?, no? well the idea is to have a small sex game limited to three rooms and make it fast a lean, then submit them for judges to compare and then they would be released together as a variety bucket sort of affair, i was a fan personally. What i mean is think of a nice simple "easy" text based game to stretch our legs on, get some writing practise in and come back in a few months and try to recruit an artist, or try DAZ.

One final note on setting, people seem to like (in order of what i think preference is): modern contemporary, fantasy, post apoc, sci-fi. now the end of that list is missing cyberpunk, that's because that is IMO a little of both post apoc and sci-fi, but by miles modern is the most commonly used, then fantasy then "the rest", but honestly do what you want to do, if you find modern boring go for something else, make a game you want to make.
Au contraire, a lot can come from a text, a couple text to speech voices, a background, and two rigged characters.
who needs to steal art, when you can get it free

 
Jun 27, 2017
6
7
If an artist was posting this expecting to get great custom coding for free, what would you be really thinking of his chances?

If you create a text based game first, you don't have to wait, and while it will not get the same results as a game with art, it will still be a 'proof of your skills' in creating a story, gameplay, and code, so that you could show that to artists you might team up with for a joint venture.
I suppose it was easy to misinterpret my stance on art. I'm not looking to piggy back on someone's work for free. Though your advice is solid and you also have a point. On the topic of having something presentable, I do have something in the works. It's however a text based character creation screen that is unfinished. It has things like a menu before it, age check, etc.

328647


Oh polywog, always with the hard reality.

But honestly, text based games can do fine, for those of us old enough to remember AIF(if not look it up, goblinboy ect.), some of the best AIF was image free, not that images aren't great but you don't need loads of visuals to make a good game.

Fundamentally there are three roles to fill IMO: Programmer, Writer and Artist(be it 3dcg, 2d art, photo images ect.) do you intend to write and program? do you want an artist to work with you or do you want to commission art piece by piece the way some text based games do? (night games and monster girl dreams do this, both good BFRPGs that are text based).

The way i see it is like this:
The programmer is responsible for how the game runs, gameplay, UI, how things are handled like choices, inventory, battle system(where appropriate), under the hood stuff ec.

The writer is responsible for the story, dialogue, characterisation, setting ect.

The Artist is the low man on the totem pole in a lot of ways, he just fulfils the remit set out by the writer, that said he is probably the guy who has the biggest effect on bringing in players.

I know, that's all fine and stuff but how does that help you? well you've got the programmer on board already, which is actually one of the harder people to find, part of the reason so many stick to ren'py is the ease of programming in ren'py meaning that they can get by with minimal coding skills. this means you don't have to stick to the "standard" model of ren'py or RPGM +DAZ(3dcg program, used in probably 50% of the games on this site at this point, it's not that hard to learn and i'll get to that in a moment) this means i see a few ways forward for you:

You've got programming down, so why not try to learn one of the other two main skills, writing or art? well i suspect you already, as for writing this is both the easiest to get into and the hardest to master. Stories are subjective, i love Tolkien but my SO would sooner pry her eyes out than read the description of the shire again, write what you would like to read but do it as well as possible, if you're interested look into something called "narratology" or the study of storytelling and narrative, it's pretty interesting IMO. As a note to this in what presumably is going to be a 18+ sex game you need to think about what fetishes your going to be playing to, no point in aiming for a fetish you really don't like, you won't do it justice, I personally couldn't make a game oriented around peep, it just feels creepy to me. In addition a really great blog post i read by an adult auther put it this way(roughly), "in an action movie the action has to advance the plot, in adult writing the sex has to advance the plot" basically the sex can't just be "tacked on" if you want the story to work well.

As for learning art, well some like the creator of good girl gone bad trace images, creating there own derivative artwork that they can use as the want, others pick up relatively easy to use 3dcg programs like honey select or DAZ, i'm familiar with DAZ as i've been playing around with it for a couple of years now, i'm still well bellow what a good dev can do but there are daz game devs out there worse than me and i have no background in photography, 3d art, modelling, rendering or any of that stuff and i've not exactly been pouring hours into it either, amazing what you can do with a few good tutorials, forum posts and trial and error.

IMO try something small first, remember the old AIF minicomp's?, no? well the idea is to have a small sex game limited to three rooms and make it fast a lean, then submit them for judges to compare and then they would be released together as a variety bucket sort of affair, i was a fan personally. What i mean is think of a nice simple "easy" text based game to stretch our legs on, get some writing practise in and come back in a few months and try to recruit an artist, or try DAZ.

One final note on setting, people seem to like (in order of what i think preference is): modern contemporary, fantasy, post apoc, sci-fi. now the end of that list is missing cyberpunk, that's because that is IMO a little of both post apoc and sci-fi, but by miles modern is the most commonly used, then fantasy then "the rest", but honestly do what you want to do, if you find modern boring go for something else, make a game you want to make.
Thank you for the lengthy reply, this was the exact kind of insight I was looking for. I'm aware text based games can be successful after all CoC introduced me to them. Yet CoC was at it's best for me when I discovered it and when I installed a mod that adds images.

Regardless, I did not mention writing for a reason. I used to write extensively in high school and it stuck with me to adulthood. On top of it I spent a year too many roleplaying, more than someone like me should have. One of my frustrations as years went on is that people who are not as experienced in roleplaying (basically writing a story together) could never match my posts. So you could say I have both in hand and I consider myself a competent writer. In fact I'm probably a better writer than I am a programmer. Though I do not consider HTML, CSS or JS to be difficult. Especially the first two.

Another excellent point however is trying something small first. In my ambition I instantly went for creating a Fallout inspired character creation screen with an extensive combat system and three difference races. It feels like everything else after is easy. A mountain for a novice climber in some sense. I don't want to say I should have prototyped first, but everyone has to make their novice mistakes somewhere.

Speaking of mistakes however, one mistake I will not make is take on stories, scenes and fetishes I cannot deliver. I feel like I would not be genuine in my delivery. The easiest way to summarize what would be available is probably what brought me into all of this (CoC).

Once again thank you for the length reply. It's been a treasure trove of information. I hadn't a clue DAZ existed. Anyway, sporadic reply this. I think. There's people coming in and out of the room and I don't want them to see what forum I'm on. :D

You're probably right about the settings though. Fantasy might be something I'd tackle.
 
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Volta

Well-Known Member
Apr 27, 2017
1,010
1,152
I suppose it was easy to misinterpret my stance on art. I'm not looking to piggy back on someone's work for free. Though your advice is solid and you also have a point. On the topic of having something presentable, I do have something in the works. It's however a text based character creation screen that is unfinished. It has things like a menu before it, age check, etc.

View attachment 328647




Thank you for the lengthy reply, this was the exact kind of insight I was looking for. I'm aware text based games can be successful after all CoC introduced me to them. Yet CoC was at it's best for me when I discovered it and when I installed a mod that adds images.

Regardless, I did not mention writing for a reason. I used to write extensively in high school and it stuck with me to adulthood. On top of it I spent a year too many roleplaying, more than someone like me should have. One of my frustrations as years went on is that people who are not as experienced in roleplaying (basically writing a story together) could never match my posts. So you could say I have both in hand and I consider myself a competent writer. In fact I'm probably a better writer than I am a programmer. Though I do not consider HTML, CSS or JS to be difficult. Especially the first two.

Another excellent point however is trying something small first. In my ambition I instantly went for creating a Fallout inspired character creation screen with an extensive combat system and three difference races. It feels like everything else after is easy. A mountain for a novice climber in some sense. I don't want to say I should have prototyped first, but everyone has to make their novice mistakes somewhere.

Speaking of mistakes however, one mistake I will not make is take on stories, scenes and fetishes I cannot deliver. I feel like I would not be genuine in my delivery. The easiest way to summarize what would be available is probably what brought me into all of this (CoC).

Once again thank you for the length reply. It's been a treasure trove of information. I hadn't a clue DAZ existed. Anyway, sporadic reply this. I think. There's people coming in and out of the room and I don't want them to see what forum I'm on. :D

You're probably right about the settings though. Fantasy might be something I'd tackle.
Glad i could help:cool:, even if there is a load of fluff padding out the useful info.