Subtle movements and expressions

[Whocares65]

This is not really a technical question, and I know there's no "silver bullet", but I thought I'd pick folks' brains anyway.

How do you go about creating subtle expressions, body language, etc.? Looking at this image from Being a DIK, the subtleties of Josy's face astound me. The way she looks into the camera w/ an expression that is simultaneously loving, but with a tinge of sadness almost breaks my heart.



Of course this is part of the creator's genius. Maybe DPC is just a master of body language (although that wasn't evident in his first game Acting Lessons, so his speed of improvement is equally astounding). I'm just wondering if anyone has any advice on how to get good at this. I'd be happy w/ any tips, either technical (e.g. adjust the pose sliders in smaller increments) or general (read this book on how facial cues give convey emotion).

 

[recreation]

I don't really see the sadness, it could easily be a "longing for a kiss" expression, or something else, but I haven't played the game, if I knew the scene I'd maybe think otherwise. The problem with subtle expressions is always that you can "read" a lot into it, wrongly as well as you can see. It has to fit the scene/situation/mood, etc.

Daz doesn't make it easy to create such subtle expressions, too, so it's always a bit of trial and error.
What I usually do is use one or more of the preset slider to some degree (never 100%) and then use the extra slider for mouth (including lips), visemes, eyes, brows and sometimes cheeks.

 

[Whocares65]

You're absolutely right that expressions are up for interpretation. The context of the story matters tremendously.

What presets are you talking about? Do you tend to start off w/ third-party expression packs or just work your way up from the default blank expression? The former is easier, but I'm afraid I won't learn anything by using them.

 

[RanliLabz]

You're absolutely right that expressions are up for interpretation. The context of the story matters tremendously.

What presets are you talking about? Do you tend to start off w/ third-party expression packs or just work your way up from the default blank expression? The former is easier, but I'm afraid I won't learn anything by using them.

You can build up your own expressions by individually moving the facial elements - although this is laborious work that leads to many of the most horrific imagery in games. It’s better to use expression packs as a base and then adjust facial elements as you see fit. Some packs are dialed so that you can combine them into unique expressions easily.

A lot of devs reuse the same expressions and even the same images for different occasions. The context is vital: if the scenario and writing are good, the player’s imagination will do a lot of the work. E.g. the girl you showed could be longing for a kiss, drunk, letting you down easy, sympathising with your loss... just shot and about to die.

DPC’s real skill lies in getting you so emotionally involved that you saw what he wanted you to see.

 

[Whocares65]

"DPC’s real skill lies in getting you so emotionally involved that you saw what he wanted you to see."

You're absolutely right. Acting Lessons had stock character models and crude expressions/posing, but people still felt a genuine connection to the characters. The better models and expressions in Being a DIK just made the emotions punch much harder.

Thanks for the advice on using expression packs--I'm assuming you'd recommend the same for poses?

I guess there's no shortcut for experience. I've been into this for 2 weeks, I guess I shouldn't be surprised developers like DPC & yourself who've been on it for years are way better at it . Love your game by the way .

 

[Rich]

One Daz "trick" that you can sometimes use to good effect for subtle expressions is PowerPose. Quick demo here:

You must be registered to see the links

(The user is manipulating the dots on the left-hand side, and then you're seeing the effect in the right.)

Essentially, it allows you to do some detailed tweaking of the face. Always assuming you're good enough to produce the effect you want.

I tend to work with a combination of some partially dialing in of the "pre-built" expressions (select the character's head, then look at what's available in the Parameters tab) and then individual slider adjustments. I'm FAR from a master, but I can usually get a result I consider acceptable... (I rarely use a pre-built expression 100% - they tend to be rather extreme. But they can create some effects that are hard to dial in manually.)

 

[Deleted member 1121028]

One Daz "trick" that you can sometimes use to good effect for subtle expressions is PowerPose. Quick demo here:

You must be registered to see the links

(The user is manipulating the dots on the left-hand side, and then you're seeing the effect in the right.)

Essentially, it allows you to do some detailed tweaking of the face. Always assuming you're good enough to produce the effect you want.

I tend to work with a combination of some partially dialing in of the "pre-built" expressions (select the character's head, then look at what's available in the Parameters tab) and then individual slider adjustments. I'm FAR from a master, but I can usually get a result I consider acceptable... (I rarely use a pre-built expression 100% - they tend to be rather extreme. But they can create some effects that are hard to dial in manually.)

That's mostly what I use, or at least what provide me the best result so far. Take me a bit of time to get used with it (instead of sliding morphs) tho. Would add SubD level can be quite huge for facial expression, depending on how much of realism/subtility you want to achieve, but it all rely on headmesh quality (OP pic doesn't really provide a good exemple tho).

 

[Whocares65]

One Daz "trick" that you can sometimes use to good effect for subtle expressions is PowerPose. Quick demo here:

You must be registered to see the links

(The user is manipulating the dots on the left-hand side, and then you're seeing the effect in the right.)

Essentially, it allows you to do some detailed tweaking of the face. Always assuming you're good enough to produce the effect you want.

I tend to work with a combination of some partially dialing in of the "pre-built" expressions (select the character's head, then look at what's available in the Parameters tab) and then individual slider adjustments. I'm FAR from a master, but I can usually get a result I consider acceptable... (I rarely use a pre-built expression 100% - they tend to be rather extreme. But they can create some effects that are hard to dial in manually.)

Wow, thanks for that! I've been using PowerPose for the body, but didn't realize you need to download the Genesis 8 upgrade for the full face functions. This opens up a whole new set of possibilities.

In case anyone else didn't know this existed: