Ren'Py Summertime Saga [v21.0.0 wip.5003] [Kompas Productions]

[srksrk 68]

2. Grace for example really cares for Eve and thus I don't really see how DC could actually introduce a proper solo scene for her without breaking that plotline. More sexual frustration would be quite sad indeed.
3. Judith branch was always linked to the Latinas. Up until now the plan was always to either have a path in which you support Judith to "beat the Latinas" or to have path in which you are somewhat on the Latinas side and solve Judith's problem in some other way (we can guess that a good dicking may make them less interested in bullying Judith).
4. Live is just less fun without any kind of consequence. I know it's just a porn game but the linear ones are usually way more boring because you always know where you'll end up. I know, that's what many people want but I still don't have to agree with it.

Just my 3 cents:

2. I always thought DC planned to enhance Grace's story a bit to give her a solo scene. In fact, the game's sources indicate that the game ia already prepared for that. There are times when Grace sits solely and naked in her room, Odette not being there. You can only talk to her, though, no naughty action. It would be very easy to integrate a solo scene for her there, re-using the existing animation, without Odette in the background. I would have modded that into the game long ago if I only knew if DC plans something like that or not. Only thing would be a matching dialog for that scene.

3. People keep saying this. I don't share that opinion. You could also say Judith's path would be linked to Mia's or even Ms. Ross because of the whole art session branch (or, very remotely, to Ms. Dewitt because of the broken flute quest during the music class quest or to Okita's because of her glasses).

4. What you say is true for real life. But for a porn game, I expect sex without consequences. Because that's what makes it different from real life. It feels strange that I must point that out...

 

[Badjourasmix]

3. People keep saying this. I don't share that opinion. You could also say Judith's path would be linked to Mia's or even Ms. Ross because of the whole art session branch (or, very remotely, to Ms. Dewitt because of the broken flute quest during the music class quest or to Okita's because of her glasses).

The reason people say that is because DC confirmed on stream multiple times that the latinas will be part of Judith's story.

4. What you say is true for real life. But for a porn game, I expect sex without consequences. Because that's what makes it different from real life. It feels strange that I must point that out...

Yeah that is also why I play porn games. It's a fantasy it is not supposed to be like real life at least that is what I look for in a porn game.

 

[srksrk 68]

@j4yj4m
I think you are right, it comes to personal preference. I personally love harem games. I think the reason why so many people like the game and why it is still so popular is because the game never really took itself too seriously, it always had a more comedic tone and had these crazy stories that would never happen IRL. Basically this game is every teenage boy's wet dream where you go around having sex with all the girls and they all fall in love with you. And it was how DC sold it at the beginning. I Started playing this very early on and when I watched his streams, he was always saying "Yes when the game is done you will be able to have sex with all the girls and get them pregnant". And I remember him talking about the harem feature very early on in development. I think he just didn't know that the game would become so big and have so many characters.

That's the problem. The game is huge. In terms of story and in terms of art. In fact, the naughtiness is lacking lately, because there is simply too few of it compared to the great story. What the game really needs are more naughty scenes, or positions, during a single naughty event. Some scenes have different angles or positions (Diane's breeding scene or Ms. Bissette's scene) or clothing options (Jenny, Consuela). Even pregnant options are beginnig to be integrated (Maria). We need more of those.

 

[Badjourasmix]

That's the problem. The game is huge. In terms of story and in terms of art. In fact, the naughtiness is lacking lately, because there is simply too few of it compared to the great story. What the game really needs are more naughty scenes, or positions, during a single naughty event. Some scenes have different angles or positions (Diane's breeding scene or Ms. Bissette's scene) or clothing options (Jenny, Consuela). Even pregnant options are beginnig to be integrated (Maria). We need more of those.

That is one of the main complaints about the branching paths, you just get 4 or 5 animated scenes per update and when you have to spread them out to different paths, it makes every path feel very short.

 

[j4yj4m]

@Badjourasmix:
Well, when I started watching the streams (I think before 0.12 in 2017) he said so many times that there'd not be harem and shortly after that he actually introduced Eriks and Mia's story, which had a good balance. Of course the goal was always to fuck and impregnat every girl in town but there was indeed enough variety and consequence to keep things fun.

I mean, I was fine with the isolated harem feature in principle which certainly would have worked out somehow. But now it actually seems to influence every bit of writing, which is just the point at which I'm out. I mean, there are still some games I enjoy but I always played SS more for the package and if the writing doesn't fit my liking, it's just not a good package.

If the whole thing turns out well, I'm happy, but the Grace part of Eve's story and the Maria/Tina situation honestly don't give me that much hope.

@srksrk 68:
The problem with Grace to me is more how you'd integrate that scene storywise. In her scene with Odette she's just sexually frustrated and needs a dick. That's acceptable. But another scene in which that is the case would be pretty sad in my opinion. If all she gets are pity bangs while she herself feels bad for betraying her sister, I'd rather not have that scene at all.

And of course you can link many characters if the writing allows it. But currently there are some situations where that's hardly the case and therefore you'd have to adapt the stories so it fits. In my opinion that will almost automatically lead to less good/meaningful plots. As said, my opinion.

I'd love to see Judith and the Latinas have a serious brawl (not literally but storywise) so she can really repay them for their bullying. The question is how you'd go from that to her being fine with MC casually fucking them, literally right after that. To me that kind of proximity matters. Sure, there'll be other girls but they have other stories or aren't related at all. Characters like Mia/Helen, Eve/Grace etc. on the other hand are simply connected through their plot in some way.

Sure, there'll always be huge inconsitencies across the whole game, but is it really too much to ask that closely related stories are more or less consistent within themselves?

As for the real life stuff, sure. The problem is that there are just sooo many generic hyper wish fulfilling harem stories out there that I personally don't really care anymore. It's just a turn-off to some degree. Edit: To be more precise, at least it's nothing I'd spend much time and money on.

Edit: But enough about my opinion on that topic. We'll see how the next updates turn out and how they'll deal with that poll.

 

[Badjourasmix]

We will have to wait and see what he decides. DC hasn't said anything about the poll yet. He could very well just decide to ignore it. It would kinda defeat the purpose of having one in the first place, but we never know. I would prefer the more linear routes, but if he decides to keep different paths, it's fine with me. Either way I think he will keep delivering very good updates.

 

[KING Breezy]

Does this mod also includes both branches for mia and helen, june, mrs. johnson like for ikaruga mod?

 

[walkerjonny]

Has the author mentioned something about if he'll continue to require the players to each time start a new game when he releases a new major version of SS? That's quite tiring...

 

[undefiniert]

Has the author mentioned something about if he'll continue to require the players to each time start a new game when he releases a new major version of SS? That's quite tiring...

That's quite normal, since the story and the game evolves. New variables get set and will be required for lots of stuff, you would miss in old saves.
In that game you can simply cheat in the dev phases, so you can mostly concentrate on parts you want to enjoy.

 

[caspian90]

Does the game have any Felching content?

 

[Omnikuken]

Not only would you miss on stuff, the engine isn't made to cope with stuff being altered prior to save point.

Also hittting new game and skipping the 1st 3 days to unlock free roam is the epitome of man's suffering playing games. Takes a buttslapping 5 mins each 3 months. The pure pain it generates warrants the sheer amount of whining we get every time a new build is released

Does the game have any Felching content?

Nope, MC doesn't do that and the 3somes we got don't involve much interaction between girls

 

[TheGrandMasterCory]

To Badjourasmix and srksrk 68, THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!

Basically everything you guys said in your posts quoted below are exactly the points I'm trying to get across.

The premise of this game was always you go around town and fuck every girl and get them pregnant. I'm not even completly against having branching paths, as I said before I like the idea of helping Erik get with June.

According to j4yj4m, the original goal/intent was to make this game a dating sim where the player is essentially forced to have the MC choose one school girl to focus on for each playthrough - while supposedly having sexual access to all other non-school girls.
Basically, from my understanding, the player would essentially have to make a playthrough for each school girl in order to get all her content- so having an Eve save, a Roxxy save, a Ronda save, a Judith save, an Annie save, a Mia save, and so on.

But, according to j4yj4m again, DarkCookie was pressured by the playerbase to take the game in a more harem direction.
The reason I'm tell you this is not because I know this to be the absolute truth (I don't), but because there are some who will argue against your assertion that the premise of this game was "always [that] you go around town and fuck every girl and get them pregnant."

I also agree with you that having some branching in the game is a cool idea.

But this whole thing of "oh it doesn't make sense for him to be with Eve and then cheat on her with Grace and Odette", he is cheating on her with half of the town inclunding his family. The same thing with Judith, "oh if you get Judith you shouldn't get the latinas", but it's ok to be fooling around with all the other girls? None of that makes sense. It's a silly porn game.

This is where I STRONGLY agree with you here, Badjourasmix.
It does NOT make sense to get all bent out of shape about the MC cheating on a girl with girls in her social circle, when he's already cheating on her with half of the other girls in the town.
At the end of the day, this is just "a silly porn game" and even having discussions about the MC's supposed lack of loyalty is taking things a bit too seriously.

For me the appeal of this game was always the fact that it never took itself too seriously. If you choose Eve or Mia, it doesn't make sense for you to be having sex with any other girls aswell. But the game encourages it, if you're playing the main story and you have finished other girls stories you are forced to have sex with Tina you can't refuse her, isn't that cheating too? You can still have interesting characters and stories without the need of locking content out.

Once again Badjourasmix, you hit it out of the ball park with your commentary.
The game encourages the MC's "cheating" behavior because that is how the game works.
There's no point in complaining about this.

In addition, being able to have sex with all the girls in a single playthrough doesn't take away from any of those girls.
You are also right about the overall story not needing to lock out content in order for it to be interesting and engaging.

Having linear stories doesn't equal bad stories, the same way having branching paths doesn't equal good stories. This isn't meant to be a hyper realistic game, you have monster girls and magic. Enjoy the game for what it is. Porn games don't need to be this intricate web of choices. Just make the stories fun and enjoyable with good sex scenes and you will have a great porn game.

And yet again, you are correct. Great commentary.
Although I would like to see more branching (to an extent), the game becoming completely linear won't automatically kill it or kill all the fun you can derive from the game and its stories.

The problem is that there are certain people that don't like what the game currently is (a harem-style game) and want it to be something different (a VN/dating sim).

You're totally right. Except that MC saved the tattoo parlor

You are not alone. For me, being able to have every girl in town makes half the fun playing the game. I am completely confident DC will find a way to make that happen in a plausible way.

Well, the MC and Eve saved the tattoo parlor. Not just the MC alone.
Should Grace now be able to date her little sister because they won't go bankrupt?

Plus, every primary girl has both the MC getting to know her personally in addition to helping her out.
We just don't have that with Grace and therefore, she isn't really a primary girl in my opinion.

In addition, I want to thank you for letting me know that I'm not the only one who enjoys the MC getting to be with multiple women in a single playthrough.
I feel like this has always been a major/main selling point of these types of games.
That's the reason why so many of them on this site are harem-type games.

Yeah that is that makes this type of games fun, you get to experience fantasies that would be very hard to experience irl. Like going around having sex with every single girl. IRL no one really wants to bang their moms but people like porn games with incest.

This is the crux of what I was trying to get across.
Being able to make out with one beautiful girl in French class and then another during the same class without any consequence is a fantasy very few us get to live out in real life.
Many of us are just average/below-average people who are trying to live vicariously through the MC.
If I want to solely focus on dating one girl at a time, I can just do that in real life.

 

[TheGrandMasterCory]

Well now the question is, will DC abide by the poll or will he ignore it? If he doesn't have any intention of going by the results of the poll, there is really no point it making it in the first place. He will only get more complaints in the future.

I disagree with the assertion that "if he doesn't have any intention of going by the results of the poll, there is really no point it making it in the first place."

I believe that when you are a developer of a certain game/project, you should use consumer polls to guide you.

What I mean by this is, the user polls should NOT be the be-all and end-all decision makers for a developer.

Instead, if you are a developer, polls should be used as (1) an indicator of how well-received your current direction with the game/project is with the audience/customer base and (2) a predictor of how users/customers will generally react to the decisions you make regarding the game/project.

If I was DarkCookie, I would recongize that only a slight majority of players (54%) want there to be no branching and remember that I, as the developer, want there to be more branching.
Based on all this, I would simply tell everyone that I will continue to add branching choices into the game since (1) I don't leave decisions entirely up to user polls and (2) I know there is a sizable portion of my playerbase (46%) who will be happy or at least, content with there being more branching in the game.

 

[Badjourasmix]

@TheGrandMasterCory
I agree with you that he probably shouldn't make decisions based solely on patreon polls. But I think one of the reasons why he decided to make the poll, was that people were always complaining about the branching paths in his chat when he streams, and he would dismiss it by saying that the chat wasn't an accurate representation of his fan base, basically meaning most of you aren't patrons and I care more about the opinion of my patrons. Which is fair, patrons are the ones making it possible for him to continue developing the game. But now with this poll he can't really say that, because, even if it's by a small margin, the majority of his patrons want more linear stories without content being locked out. So now every time he decides to add branching paths in game people will always refer to this poll.

 

[TheGrandMasterCory]

@Badjourasmix:
It's indeed the level of writing that actually matters in my opinion. Sure, the game is full of strange stories and things, but DC said again and again that he wants characters to have a purpose and that he wants them to act in charcter. Of course you'll take shortcuts etc. at times but there's just so much you can do without making it just look badly constructed. There's simply a line to walk until immersion breaks and things become random and somewhat boring. Until now the game was great in managing that compromise.

He had many great compromises which I personally really liked, like Jenny staying bitchy, Debbie not fucking Jenny, Mrs. Johnson rewarding MC for getting Erik June as GF, Mia being happy because Harold and Helen were back together, etc. and now it looks like much of that is going out the window and we'll end up some cheap harem stuff. I may be damaged by reading quite a few manga in the past, but having a perfect protagonist who gets all the girls is just so extremely boring and at least for me there's almost no redemption. Many other games at least compensate with an abundance of sexual content but SS can't deliver really that for obvious reasons, which is probabably why the writing is actually important to me.

As said, it's my opinion. I canceled my pledge and I'll see how it develops.

With this post and the one you made before it addressed to me, I now understand where you are coming from j4yj4m.

I completely agree that there are indeed some routes/storylines that require branching in order for them to feel authentic.
I also understand that you don't have to be able to get every girl in a single playthrough in order to have fun.

Lastly, I partially agree with your assertion that "having a perfect protagonist who gets all the girls is just so extremely boring and at least for me there's almost no redemption."

While I do agree that adding more weight and consequences to the MC's choices could make the game more interesting and make it feel more impactful, there are certain problems I have with your quote such as:

1) It's a bit of a strawman to argue against having a "perfect protagonist," when no one (certainly not me) is asking for that. We don't want a completely "perfect protagonist." We just want one that isn't so like us, isn't so weighed down by responsibilities and consequences like ours, that there's no point in us trying to live vicariously through him.

2) The protagonist getting all the girls doesn't have to be boring so long as the story is engaging, the gameplay is fun, and the game makes you, the player, work hard in order to obtain those girls.
Getting all the girls in one playthrough doesn't have to automatically mean "boring game."
Getting all the girls in one playthrough doesn't automatically make the game bad.

3) Your "no redemption" assertion is confusing. Who or what needs to be redeemed?
It's a silly porn game that allows you to pull out entire shovels and guitars from your small red backpack!
Why should there be some form of "redemption?" What kind of redemption could there be?
This part of your quote really doesn't make any sense to me at all.

Even so, I understand your complaints and your worries.
All I can say to you is that you shouldn't be too quick to cancel your pledge since there is no guarantee that DarkCookie will go through with the No Branching decision.
And even if he does, there is no guarantee that you won't still derive enjoyment from the game because of it.

 

[TheGrandMasterCory]

@j4yj4m
I think the reason why so many people like the game and why it is still so popular is because the game never really took itself too seriously, it always had a more comedic tone and had these crazy stories that would never happen IRL. Basically this game is every teenage boy's wet dream where you go around having sex with all the girls and they all fall in love with you.

This quote encapsulates exactly how I feel about Summertime Saga.

I just want to play a game where I can earn a six figure per year salary while delivering pizzas in an expensive sports car

I want to play a game where numerous girls exclusively fall in love with me, all at he same time, and bear my children.

I want to play a game where I can have unprotected sex with as many beautiful girls as I can get, whenever I want.

I want to play a game where every attractive girl thinks I'm also attractive, handsome, sexy, and/or cute.

I want to play a game where I can simultaneously have multiple girlfriends who all genuinely like and desire me.

And I want to do all this without the real-life consequences and troubles that come with even attempting this kind of stuff, let alone achieving it.

I just want the American Teenage Boys Wet Dream (and I know I'm not the only one) and Summertime Saga provides that like no other game does.

 

[MrShadowDUH]

I just want to play a game where I can earn a six figure per year salary while delivering pizzas in an expensive sports car

I want to play a game where numerous girls exclusively fall in love with me, all at he same time, and bear my children.

I want to play a game where I can have unprotected sex with as many beautiful girls as I can get, whenever I want.

I want to play a game where every attractive girl thinks I'm also attractive, handsome, sexy, and/or cute.

I want to play a game where I can simultaneously have multiple girlfriends who all genuinely like and desire me.

And I want to do all this without the real-life consequences and troubles that come with even attempting this kind of stuff, let alone achieving it.

I just want the American Teenage Boys Wet Dream (and I know I'm not the only one) and Summertime Saga provides that like no other game does.

Personally, I don't want that. Its an overplayed and overused concept that leads to a game that might be entertaining, but is entirely flat story wise. Nothing has any real value cause there aren't any consequences for your actions, just get every girl. I also get that its all a fantasy and a "silly porn game", but does that mean that there can be no lewd game that actually challenges your decision making? It hinders the growth of western visual novel/lewd games, which is already miles behind what Japan is able to do.

 

[TheGrandMasterCory]

Does the game have any Felching content?

Had to search up what "felching" means!

I don't mean to kink shame but if you're asking about the male MC doing that stuff, all I can say in response is

 

[TheGrandMasterCory]

Personally, I don't want that. Its an overplayed and overused concept that leads to a game that might be entertaining, but is entirely flat story wise. Nothing has any real value cause there aren't any consequences for your actions, just get every girl. I also get that its all a fantasy and a "silly porn game", but does that mean that there can be no lewd game that actually challenges your decision making? It hinders the growth of western visual novel/lewd games, which is already miles behind what Japan is able to do.

First, I'm very honored that the first comment you seem to have ever posted on this site since you joined on May 3, 2020 is in response to one of my own. Thank you for this.

Second, I understand where you are coming from and believe this is all a matter of personal preference.

Like I've stated before, the fact that you can get every girl in the game doesn't automatically mean the game's storytelling will be bad or "flat."

The fact that the MC will have multiple simultaneous lovers doesn't mean that he won't face some limited consequences that make the game more intriguing/interesting/immersive.

I'm just saying that there is a reason why people play these games.

Making the MC work endlessly at the pizza shop to pay child support to the numerous women and girls he impregnated, all while having to deal with the multiple STDs he's contracted may make for a more consequence-heavy, realistic game.
Hell, it may even make for a more impactful story, I'll grant you that.

But it probably won't make for a porn game that people feel they can, or even want to, immerse themselves in.


Edit: Everything here and below is the edited portion of this comment.

Just as a response to your claim that Western porn games are "miles behind what Japan is able to do," the reason for this isn't because Western porn games don't have enough choices or challenging decisions as you seem to imply.

This disparity is probably due to the fact that Japan actually treats its porn industry with respect unlike Westerners.
Thus, Japanese porn game makers receive notable corporate backing. In turn, this allows them to create elaborate games, while Western porn game makers such as DarkCookie must heavily rely upon Patreon backers which isn't always much.

 

[Badjourasmix]

Personally, I don't want that. Its an overplayed and overused concept that leads to a game that might be entertaining, but is entirely flat story wise. Nothing has any real value cause there aren't any consequences for your actions, just get every girl. I also get that its all a fantasy and a "silly porn game", but does that mean that there can be no lewd game that actually challenges your decision making? It hinders the growth of western visual novel/lewd games, which is already miles behind what Japan is able to do.

I think that games that have a lot of choices and have consequences are fine, I've played my fair share of them. The thing is that this game wasn't really heavy on that kind of stuff to begin with. Erik's story for example even if you decide to go for the girl that he is interested in, the game doesn't really punish you, you bang the girl and he keeps being your friend. When I used the term "silly game" I didn't mean it in a bad way, and I don't think anyone is using it in a bad way either. I personally meant it as in, you can see that the dev is just having fun with the characters and isn't taking things too seriously. All the characters are very stereotypical, look at tony for example, he is italian looks like super Mario and has a brother named Luigi. And all the stories are very ridiculous. That is what made me and so many others like the game.