(Survey for Devs) The Value of Proofreaders

[Laziness]

I'm trying to get a grasp of how valued proofreaders are to devs, especially since many devs here don't consider English their first language, so I've put together a survey to that end.
This is my first go at doing something like this, so if you think there's any way I could make the survey better, please let me know.

Thanks in advance.

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<Moderator note: please be aware that the link above may log your IP address and provide it with the responses to the member who posted the survey. This is common practice with online surveys so please use at your own risk!>

 

[Avaron1974]

It's not always as simple as "find a proofreader".

Nearly all those Patreon or crowd funded devs are amateurs that get into this as a hobby so wouldn't know anyone to do the proofreading for them.

Then there is a matter of trust. It's sending someone else something you've worked on and hoping they don't steal it and use it for themselves if it's any good.

Then there is the big issue, money. Some proofreaders expect paying for their time which is something an amateur dev just getting into this isn't going to have the fund for.

 

[polywog]

Find an online pen pal. I translated a story once, with the help of someone in another country, while we were playing Diablo.

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[Laziness]

It's not always as simple as "find a proofreader".

Nearly all those Patreon or crowd funded devs are amateurs that get into this as a hobby so wouldn't know anyone to do the proofreading for them.

Then there is a matter of trust. It's sending someone else something you've worked on and hoping they don't steal it and use it for themselves if it's any good.

Then there is the big issue, money. Some proofreaders expect paying for their time which is something an amateur dev just getting into this isn't going to have the fund for.

I certainly understand starting out with next to no support. That's why some of these recruitment posts offer a percentage instead of a flat rate.

 

[ProofreadingRUS]

I'm trying to get a grasp of how valued proofreaders are to devs, especially since many devs here don't consider English their first language, so I've put together a survey to that end.
This is my first go at doing something like this, so if you think there's any way I could make the survey better, please let me know.

Thanks in advance.

You must be registered to see the links

<Moderator note: please be aware that the link above may log your IP address and provide it with the responses to the member who posted the survey. This is common practice with online surveys so please use at your own risk!>

I'm doing proofreading for 2 Devs unless you don't mind the Spanglish migraine, then I should stop and let you deal with it.

 

[Zippity]

I'm trying to get a grasp of how valued proofreaders are to devs, especially since many devs here don't consider English their first language, so I've put together a survey to that end.
This is my first go at doing something like this, so if you think there's any way I could make the survey better, please let me know.

Thanks in advance.

You must be registered to see the links

<Moderator note: please be aware that the link above may log your IP address and provide it with the responses to the member who posted the survey. This is common practice with online surveys so please use at your own risk!>

There is a different from Proofreading the text to ensure things like Spelling and Grammar and Punctuation are correct... Over Translation from one language to English and then Interpreting that Translation into proper English that reads right and makes sense, those are much different things... Usually if it is being transferred from one language to another the Translation is done first, then Interpreting, followed by Proofreading...

If you are not adept at the 2nd language you are translating/interpreting to, then it will just end up sounding bad as it is read by the target audience... This is probably the number one problem with most foreign language text when ported over into English... Even before any proofreading has occurred...

The biggest trouble with broken English text, is that most likely it was just a straight Translation based on the skill of the Translator's English... 9 times out of 10 it is never Interpreted correctly, in order to make sense to the English speaking audience... Properly interpreting a translated text requires the interpreter have a general understanding of how to take the intention of the story, and cultural concepts used in the writing of the original foreign text, to ensure it would make sense to a different culture in their language, while still attempting to get the original story intentions across to that culture in a way that they understand it correctly... It is a tough thing to do properly, if your not skilled at it... Because if it sounds bizarre or odd to the target audience, it's just going to create frustration trying to read it, perhaps more time to read it as you have to read stuff multiple times in some cases to understand it properly, and/or the reader is just going to give up and stop reading the text all together if not stop reading/playing the VN/Game all together...

Proofreading is definitely a necessity, but so is properly Translating AND Interpreting when necessary... I usually recommend to developers to take a few days break from writing the script prior to reading it out loud to themselves during the Proofreading process... This works better because you go into the Proofreading process with a fresher mindset, and saying it aloud will help you catch issues as well... Another recommendation is to find a few folks willing to help proofread it for you... This will lessen the amount of proofreading mistakes, prior to publishing a product or update to the public space... Even though most developers in this industry are amateur and/or hobbyist developers, you still should try and be as professional about your development as possible... Especially if you want to attract money in the form of donations or purchases... You should not use the general public as your only means of proofreading, as it just makes your product look bad/poor...

Zip

 

[ProofreadingRUS]

There is a different from????
What????
You lost me there at the beginning.

 

[WIRProductions]

Proofreading is highly valued across all genres. Visual Novel? The entire genre is a literal book with smutty pics. RPG/Strategy? The player wants to know their actions do what is said. Stroke game? Dirty talking is a key kink, so typos are going to kill the mood. The list goes on.

I think the amount of leeway fans will give will be determined on multiple factors such as version of release, are the same mistakes still there after fans point them out, are they super obvious or pro editor level obtuse, is the game rare/sought after and people will accept a MTL rather than nothing, and so on.

When in doubt though, proofreading is important and should always be. I know when I did some paid dialogue work on a game, I replayed some of the game to get into the character's mindsets, and would find typos I'd send along to the creator to fix.

 

[Laziness]

I suppose the most important part of working with "broken" English is being able to tell when something doesn't make sense and knowing when to double check with the original writer. Don't want the translated product going against their vision.

 

[ProofreadingRUS]

I suppose the most important part of working with "broken" English is being able to tell when something doesn't make sense and knowing when to double check with the original writer. Don't want the translated product going against their vision.

I always check it twice. I only make an exception and check it a third time if it's a really good game like WVM. I mean a game like WVM. He doesn't want anybody to check his mistakes.
So we have to put up with a bad script whether we want to or not.

 

[Zippity]

I suppose the most important part of working with "broken" English is being able to tell when something doesn't make sense and knowing when to double check with the original writer. Don't want the translated product going against their vision.

Agreed...

It is key when translating any text from one language to another, during the next step of Interpreting that translation properly into that second language, that the translator/interpreter works with the original author to ensure the correct tone and meanings come across in the same, if not just similar, way as intended... Sometimes some cultural references used in the original language, will not make any sense to the culture of the target language, after translating it... So some changes during the interpretation steps may be needed, and those changes need to be agreed upon by the original author so that they understand those needed changes and agree to those changes... This helps the author ensure that he/she still gets some of the intended meanings and plot points across to the new target language's audience properly...

If you don't pay attention to those occasional cultural reference differences and/or word usage changes, then you'll just end up confusing, confounding, and/or maybe even frustrating the target readers... As they don't get your inference/reference/meaning...

Hope that makes sense...

Also, I would recommend you use a survey system that does not possibly invade peoples privacy by logging any form of contact data... I saw the warning in the original post, so if you want to get a much bigger audience participation in any poll or survey, best to use something less intrusive like a forum thread poll or one of the many polling sites out there that keeps everything anonymous...

Zip

 

[Laziness]

Also, I would recommend you use a survey system that does not possibly invade peoples privacy by logging any form of contact data... I saw the warning in the original post, so if you want to get a much bigger audience participation in any poll or survey, best to use something less intrusive like a forum thread poll or one of the many polling sites out there that keeps everything anonymous...

Zip

Honestly, I've pretty much abandoned the survey and am now just working on building bridges through volunteer editing.

Though you're also right when it comes to keeping people's information out of it, especially when it comes to this kind of subject matter.

 

[recreation]

This is my first go at doing something like this, so if you think there's any way I could make the survey better, please let me know.

make a poll in the thread?

Regarding a proof reader, I can tell you that it makes a big difference to have someone to check the script, even if you're fluent in the language you're writing in (which I'm not).
Two eyes see more than one, and even the best writer make mistakes. One example: before the last release I happen to come across a typo that was there since the very first version of the game and neither me, my proof reader, nor any of the players noticed it before (and I'm at v0.5).
You simply can't see everything, nor can your proofreader, but having a second pair of eyes helps a lot.
It also helps you understanding the language better, and/or notice common mistakes, so you'll become a better writer almost automatically (not saying that I'm a good writer, but i'm getting better with every update).

Having a proofreader that understands what you want to say or express is also a big plus and I'm lucky to have one, but that doesn't come automatically, you have to understand each other, talk to each other, understand the story, etc.

 

[anne O'nymous]

You simply can't see everything, nor can your proofreader, but having a second pair of eyes helps a lot.

At least because the second reader don't know the text yet.
Whatever how attentively you proofread your own text, whatever how many time you do it, you already know what the text should be. Therefore, you'll be in fact half reading it, half reciting it, and obviously miss errors because of this.

It also helps you understanding the language better, and/or notice common mistakes, so you'll become a better writer almost automatically (not saying that I'm a good writer, but i'm getting better with every update).

"better writer in this language" is what you were looking for
And I totally agree with this, especially when grammar rules, words order, or things like that, aren't the same in your native language and English. Instinctively you'll follow the rules/order you use the most, the one of your native language, and by default for you the sentence make sense because of this.
And there's also the words that exist in both languages, but don't have the same meaning or, worse, the same spelling.


This said, for everything that is purely spelling and grammar, there's a trick to improve self proofreading. You just read the sentence starting by its end. It's enough to make your brain forget about the expected sentence and see the errors ; but obviously it will not help you correct grammatical errors due to a misunderstanding of the grammar.

 

[PapaPhat]

It's not always as simple as "find a proofreader".

Nearly all those Patreon or crowd funded devs are amateurs that get into this as a hobby so wouldn't know anyone to do the proofreading for them.

Then there is a matter of trust. It's sending someone else something you've worked on and hoping they don't steal it and use it for themselves if it's any good.

Then there is the big issue, money. Some proofreaders expect paying for their time which is something an amateur dev just getting into this isn't going to have the fund for.

I've offered my services free of charge to a few devs now. Something always gets in the way... well, usually... Currently helping Xavster with Stellar Crossroads, his follow up to Callisto. Xav has allowed me to do far more than proofreading. I created some sub-faction ideas and am currently assembling royalty free music for the soundtrack. Once I have a decent stockpile of tracks I'll be implementing them into the script then returning to the sub-faction. It's good to have an outlet for my creative thoughts as my disabilities prevent me from playing music these days.

Proofreading is easy for me. I find myself doing it anyway as I read. So, it's easy for me to read the .rpy files and make grammar/spelling edits as I read.

I agree, Avaron1974 my friend, it is not as easy as saying "find a proofreader." The dev has to be willing to work with me too. I have to like the story and game concept because I do it for free. I'm retired and have nothing better to do with my time than play games, chat with friends online and help friends make cool mods and games. So, that is what I do.

Adventure ever on my friend, Phat