The art of making art

[uiop505]

So here's what I have and here's what I lack and what I need:
What I have: I can program pretty good, I'm fluent in C++ and a bunch of languages, I do great in Unreal Engine and I could do Unity if I wanted to so I'm sure I could handle basic structural code in VN or RPG makers like Renpy. Also, I feel I have great ideas to make games and I'm sure I could whip up a story without much difficulty. I write cambridge level english exams, brah.

What I lack: But but but, I can't make art. I'm shit and my modelling always turns out to look like a freaking ghost. And when I try to use those free resources all y'all have so kindly provided, all that I do is mess those models up even more. I can think of a story line and branches to that story line but I can't think of individual scenes and the minute details that must be in that scene to attract the reader.

What I need: I need a way of making art. Are there tutorials or a way to learn this very hard talent of making art or is my only choice finding a partner good at this? Just to be clear, I DON'T need tutorials about how to use engines like Blender or Daz3D because I KNOW how to use the engine, I just can't make good art from it. I need to know how to make structured and planned out art that draws the player's attention. Full stop.

Why is art making so hard? Help a brother out, will ya?

By the way, this is my first post so please forgive me if I didn't follow some format or rule about posting.

 

[9thCrux]

Adding art to your story can be a very challenging task, in my experience as a hobbyist-enthusiast "game developer" it has been. Maybe some of my experience can be useful to you.

Let me give you an example:
In my story one of the characters is driving through the city at night so that means that I would need some 3D models; city, car, character, clothing, hair, accessories, and also environment lights, point lights, HDRs and some clutter.

I would need to customize my character to give it some personality and individuality, then pose it, adjust the clothing so it doesn't clip with the character, position it in the scene along with all the other components. Is a long process that require attention to details, so the first thing I do is to write the story then customize the character and then see what is the first scene I need, and how it flows, like character driving = first scene, character arrives at destination = second scene, monologue = third scene, love interest interaction = fourth scene.

1st:


2nd:

3rd:

4th


Is a long process that takes a lot of work and attention to details, setting up the scene can take many hours, and then the rendering can also take a long time, if I have scenes saved and all I have to do is render them I can make about six renders in a day, yup six images if all is set in place. Then again this is my first time attempting to make a game and the team is:

Story writer: Me
Coder: Me
Art/3DCG rendering: Me

A nice one man team :coldsweat:

But the main thing is that you need to practice, trial and error, it has a learning curve.

 

[Egglock]

What exactly in art are you talking about. Texturing? applying color to the models? Posing? Environment design? Drawing?

You mention you know Blender? As in can you model house hold objects i.e. chairs, tables, sofa's, bottles, UV unwrap and then apply textures to them? Create clothing to fit the models? Rig characters so you can pose them? If what your saying about knowing how to use a 3D software such as Blender you shouldn't have any issue creating art from it. A little more information as to the extent of what you know about Blender would help me point you in the right direction.

As far as creating a scene, that's entirely up to how your story progresses. Ask yourself, what exactly is happening in this scene? What is needed to make the scene complete or convey what you're trying to tell the player/viewer. Run through the scene a few times and double check to make sure it has everything you want.

 

[uiop505]

A little more information as to the extent of what you know about Blender would help me point you in the right direction.

Well, see the main point here is I know how to get the resources and how to get the models. I just can't come up with a scene. Whenever I make one, it turns out like garbage.

But the main thing is that you need to practice, trial and error, it has a learning curve.

A few questions regarding what you said. See, now that art you posted is really nice. Could you tell me how you thought up of those scenes? For instance, when you take the first one, you have a certain car in a certain environment, with the camera shot taken at a certain angle. This is hard for me. I have no idea what colors or what models to put into the scene. It just never feels natural whenever I make one.
Lastly, do you make your own models or do you get models? If you get models, could you tell me some of the best sources to get them?

 

[9thCrux]

A few questions regarding what you said. See, now that art you posted is really nice. Could you tell me how you thought up of those scenes? For instance, when you take the first one, you have a certain car in a certain environment, with the camera shot taken at a certain angle. This is hard for me. I have no idea what colors or what models to put into the scene. It just never feels natural whenever I make one.
Lastly, do you make your own models or do you get models? If you get models, could you tell me some of the best sources to get them?

To make the driving scene I just tho about a few things:

At what time is the MC driving?
You have more traffic during the day and that means more cars on the road, people walking by, the lights should represent a sunny day or a cloudy one. If the MC drives at night that means less traffic and little to none people walking around, the light settings should be set to represent nighttime. Just look at images of night driving to get an idea of the colors and locations you need to setup, use real world references.

What kind of car is he driving?
A sub, a coupe, a sedan, a motorcycle it all depends on the story and the MC's personality or age.
It could also mean that the MC needs to ride a taxi and then you need a taxi model, driver, and your character.

Just imagine real world setups or try to recreate them from your experiences while driving.

You can find 3D models in the assets release section

You must be registered to see the links

And also you can use a search engine to look for free Daz 3D models.

I make custom morphs for my characters, that means that I edit their face shape, body shape, also the textures.

Once you get into it it gets easier, just keep on watching tutorials and practicing. Also remember to use references.

 

[NoesisAndNoema]

Conceptualizing a scene is an art, as much as drawing, painting and GUI design.

Art, unlike programming, is something that...
1: Requires natural talent. (An "eye for things".)
or
2: Requires as much "learning", as it takes to learn all programming languages.
or
3: A little of both, of the above, instead of dependence on just one or the other.

The outcome will be dramatic, 1, 2, or 3...
1: You get a Rembrandt.

2: You get some shit that Apple spits-out.

3: You get something with a style of M.C. Escher.

I would suggest trying to mimic specific scenes, from things that you find on the internet, with the tools you have.

Have a car model... Put it up in the program, try to mimic the angle, lighting, colors, etc... of a photograph you found online.

Upgrade to the next level... a whore posed over the car...

Then try adding a 3D scene into the mix...

Google "color theory", and "lighting composition", etc... along with "Concept art". All should lead you to some insightful knowledge to adapt to your 3D scenes.

I can't help you with the micro-elements of your stories. Those are kind-of the guts to a story. Without them, there is no story, just a concept of one.

That is the difference between having an idea for a flying car, and actually having the schematics and plans for one. Everyone has had the "idea of flying cars", only a few have actually had the knowledge to make them.

Most writers only write about what they know.
Good writers, write about what they know, intimately.

If you don't know anything intimately, it will show in your writing, as being unbelievable. But, not the good kind of unbelievable. Time to get intimate!

 

[uiop505]

At what time is the MC driving?
You have more traffic during the day and that means more cars on the road, people walking by, the lights should represent a sunny day or a cloudy one. If the MC drives at night that means less traffic and little to none people walking around, the light settings should be set to represent nighttime. Just look at images of night driving to get an idea of the colors and locations you need to setup, use real world references.

What kind of car is he driving?
A sub, a coupe, a sedan, a motorcycle it all depends on the story and the MC's personality or age.
It could also mean that the MC needs to ride a taxi and then you need a taxi model, driver, and your character.

Just imagine real world setups or try to recreate them from your experiences while driving.

Ahhh I see this makes sense. At first I was analyzing the scene this much but then when I analyzed every single bit of detail, the scene took ages to set up and it looked messy and it just didn't feel natural. It didn't feel like real life, so I thought I had to dial it a bit down and analyze the right amount and I guess that's what you've provided here. Thanks a bunch for your input! I really do appreciate it. Those ideas are boss.

Art, unlike programming, is something that...
1: Requires natural talent. (An "eye for things".)
or
2: Requires as much "learning", as it takes to learn all programming languages.
or
3: A little of both, of the above, instead of dependence on just one or the other.

Very very very very well said, my friend. This is the whole reason my problem exists. I just can't learn art in the conventional manner. It's something that automatically is in you and builds on as you make more art.

I would suggest trying to mimic specific scenes, from things that you find on the internet, with the tools you have.

Have a car model... Put it up in the program, try to mimic the angle, lighting, colors, etc... of a photograph you found online.

Upgrade to the next level... a whore posed over the car...

Then try adding a 3D scene into the mix...

Google "color theory", and "lighting composition", etc... along with "Concept art". All should lead you to some insightful knowledge to adapt to your 3D scenes.

I can't help you with the micro-elements of your stories. Those are kind-of the guts to a story. Without them, there is no story, just a concept of one.

That is the difference between having an idea for a flying car, and actually having the schematics and plans for one. Everyone has had the "idea of flying cars", only a few have actually had the knowledge to make them.

Most writers only write about what they know.
Good writers, write about what they know, intimately.

If you don't know anything intimately, it will show in your writing, as being unbelievable. But, not the good kind of unbelievable. Time to get intimate!

Exactly dude, I totally agree with you, and these are some top notch suggestions. I'm going to take your advice and hopefully one day, achieve this bothersome task. I really appreciate your input, you could probably turn this into a thread of your own titled: "Tips for newbie art makers" or something, I felt it really covers the essentials and stuff I personally need to do.

 

[NoesisAndNoema]

Don't despair, you are on the right track.

Throw out some words, and see what people say in response.

If needed, you can find assistance and graphic support to help you out. There are a LOT of great artists here, who are not great writers. Same with programming...

Never push to have your first creation be "superior", it never will be... It can't be... It is the gateway to superiority. Treat it as such, and learn what you need, along the way. Your second will be better than your first, and third will be better than that... Unless you are the director of "Rocky" or "Jaws" or "Gremlins" or "Nightmare on Elm Street"...

You are asking all the right questions and well aware of your limits. That is more than most can do.

 

[uiop505]

I do appreciate the confidence you've provided. I guess all I can do now is do the best I can and only hope that my art sense just grows eventually.

 

[anne O'nymous]

Well, see the main point here is I know how to get the resources and how to get the models. I just can't come up with a scene. Whenever I make one, it turns out like garbage.

Randomly browse sites like tumblr or photobucket. There's a bunch of narcissistic people in there, which lead to a bunch of real life whatever situation you can imagine. Find a pure vanity account and you can end with thousand of face only selfies form the same girl, which will teach you a lot about facial expressions and what they convey to the viewer.
Pass some times doing only this, both to build your pictures collection of "idea for a scene" and your visual memory, then take one basic scene and try to redo it in 3D. Pose, angle and facial expression as close as possible from the original. Don't render it in full quality, but look at the result, compare to the original photo and try to understand why the feeling isn't the same (if it isn't the same). When you achieve something more or less convincing, try to change the angle, pose, facial expression, to add/remove something, and compare both, note what's the difference in your feeling looking at them.
It will take time, but in the end you'll have knowledge like, by example, "for this kind of pose, if the camera is frontal, it will be more casual, but it if it's from the side it will become more sensual". You'll understand that if a character look at the ground with its head leaning to the side, it convey curiosity if the camera is at the level of the head, but superiority if the camera is lower than it. All this while it tend to convey submission if the camera is higher than the head. Take this last pose, make the character look up, and it will become a look of dare.

It's not just to achieve an anatomically accurate result that painters have models, it's also to find the pose, facial expression and angle which will convey what they want to paint. And the exact same should apply to 3D. Unless you've the knowledge already in your memory, you need a model, whatever real or from a "stolen photo", to help you find the right everything to make the rendered result look as expected.

 

[uiop505]

Randomly browse sites like tumblr or photobucket. There's a bunch of narcissistic people in there, which lead to a bunch of real life whatever situation you can imagine. Find a pure vanity account and you can end with thousand of face only selfies form the same girl, which will teach you a lot about facial expressions and what they convey to the viewer.
Pass some times doing only this, both to build your pictures collection of "idea for a scene" and your visual memory, then take one basic scene and try to redo it in 3D. Pose, angle and facial expression as close as possible from the original. Don't render it in full quality, but look at the result, compare to the original photo and try to understand why the feeling isn't the same (if it isn't the same). When you achieve something more or less convincing, try to change the angle, pose, facial expression, to add/remove something, and compare both, note what's the difference in your feeling looking at them.
It will take time, but in the end you'll have knowledge like, by example, "for this kind of pose, if the camera is frontal, it will be more casual, but it if it's from the side it will become more sensual". You'll understand that if a character look at the ground with its head leaning to the side, it convey curiosity if the camera is at the level of the head, but superiority if the camera is lower than it. All this while it tend to convey submission if the camera is higher than the head. Take this last pose, make the character look up, and it will become a look of dare.

It's not just to achieve an anatomically accurate result that painters have models, it's also to find the pose, facial expression and angle which will convey what they want to paint. And the exact same should apply to 3D. Unless you've the knowledge already in your memory, you need a model, whatever real or from a "stolen photo", to help you find the right everything to make the rendered result look as expected.

Man that's awesome. Tumblr and photobucket are great suggestions, I'll look into that. Yessss the time is an issue, I'm lazy, who isn't? That stuff about the model's position and character is good advice, I'll certainly analyze that too. I'm not sure if all this knowledge comes by practice or if you're just born with it. Whatever the case, I guess all I can do is practice and make whatever I can the best I can and roll with it. Really great advice, thanks man.

 

[anne O'nymous]

I'm not sure if all this knowledge comes by practice or if you're just born with it.

Probably both. To stay with my comparison with painters, great ones became like this with a lot of practice, but the masters had it since their birth ; still without a lot of practice they would have done average creations.
But well, as pleasing as it can be to look at a master piece of art, it's still really enjoyable to look at one made by a great artist. So don't despair, I'm sure that you can do more than what you see as "garbage" ; hey, you still do more than the majority of people, who aren't even able to make a single scene.

Really great advice, thanks man.

You're welcome.

 

[hopeless]

stop crying... im shit in art as well, and in programming, and in english and in everything...