The buildup in incest games

[Za_Warudo]

Why in games with incest is there usually no path, development, and/or more or less realistic and sensible justifications that lead to sexual scenes with one's relatives? Or why at least there are but only up to a certain point, in the sense that we initially find an effective construction of the romantic/sexual relationship, but then suddenly everything speeds up by totally eliminating the sense of the path and therefore making you realize that you have practically wasted time enjoying the construction that has been there up to that moment, destroying (in my case) the accumulated excitement that in reality should explode at that moment.
I understand maybe if users who support the game ask for an acceleration and the creators execute or simply that you can't waste too much time, but isn't it much more interesting and exciting to see an incestuous scene in which there was a whole story before, a path, and/or a justification that led to it? Also because there must be a minimum of realism in my opinion, it can't always be "Shit I'm excited, but you're my brother, whatever let's fuck.", and indeed sometimes even the relationship is not even mentioned during.
However I don't want to say that you always have to find extremely serious and realistic pretexts, on the contrary I'm fine with even silly incipits if made funny or interesting like "poison to suck from the cock", in fact I find this kind of scene in "Wizards Adventures" wonderful.

 

[Hagatagar]

In my opinion there are several reasons for this.

The most evident one is that real and believable incest relationships are quite difficult to write.
Incest is my main kink for well over 20 years in which I have consumed many media (games, movies, mangas, books and especially erotic stories), but only a kinda pathetically small portion of them manage to portray these relationships with each other and with the surroundings realistic or good enough.
One of the main reasons for this is, of course, that almost none game authors are professionals and this shows in what they are capable of.


Another big reason is that many use these incest narratives only as a trope, as a gimmick to add a bit of taboo, the token incest love interest so to speak, often without having any interest in the kink themselves or what it actually means to people who actually like it.
Imagine those typical "horror" movies that features nothing but jumpscares without any dread or ominous/unsettling elements.
These kind of stories are for the mainstream, casual consumer, not for those who actually like that stuff.
But this is also true for many other kinks.

Of course, I must add that everyone may have a different appreciation of their favorite kink. So incest can simply be the taboo of doing something socially inappropriate, or the corruption of getting someone to do something socially inappropriate, or just the much more intimate relationship it represents. So that may well be reflected in the writing.


And then there is the typical "not allowed" issue that is demanded by such services as Patreon.
For developers it's so much easier to just replace some terms (Landlady -> Mother; Roommate -> Sister) in an *cough* unofficial *cough* incest-patch and keep the relationship dynamic to just that level of not really related interaction, rather than having two sets of dialogue (I know that's more work, but if they really cared, they'd do it).


So to put it as a very harshly tl;dr:
Lack of talent (can't write it better), lack of interest (don't care for the subject matter) and/or lack of willingness (to do more than the bare minimum).

 

[Doorknob22]

Remember that players want the typical AVN developer to be a good storyteller, a good artist, a good coder and a committed content provider. Obviously many AVN developers simply can't excel in all aspects.

If you deeply care about incest storytelling, I suggest you focus on pure (porn) literature where the authors focus on one thing only: the story.

Oh: the the AVN incest situation is miles above the live porn incest scene, so you might take some comfort in that.

 

[Loro]

There could be different reasons.

First of all, that genre is mostly a product of fantasy, since it is not an every-day happening. This state is understandable and probably fine as it is. Especially because many enjoy the fantasy about it, and not the real personal experience.

Another would be the fact, that the characters in such a story already lived a decade and many more years together. So, they know each other well enough, even if it is not shown to us. That period of time is skipped. So, if something happens, then it is possible, that it will explode, because years of living-together experience and an already build-up awareness of each other are already existing.

Of course, you could add moments and situations of the past, to show how such awareness came to exist. But then again, you probably don't want to see how the characters in very young ages became aware of each other. Most stories of this genre are already very on the limit regarding character age, if you ask me. That's probably why most game devs try to create situations in the characters' present, especially when they reached a legal age by then, by taking the past living-together experience and the already build-up awareness-potential of each other as given, to escalate the situation in the here-and-now. This probably gives the feeling of a rushed developement.

This said, of course current situations can be elaborated more. Creating understandable reasons why the escalation happens. But these will probably repeat in many games then. Examples: Father died. Or Divorced. Father is never home, only working. Or girlfriend of the son left, so sister and brother talk more to each other. To avoid telling the decade long developement, trigger-moments like these ones are usually used. Combining these created situations, combined with the already living-together-for-years experience and the build-up awareness-potential, players will then only see the event-triggered results. That means, some essential factors will stay hidden in the story telling, for various reasons.

I would say, because of these reasons and maybe many more, most game devs go with the result, than with the background story. Because the relationship foundation is already existing and happened already during the whole time of living together. That said, of course one can take the easy path, and make the event-triggers low quality, too.

It is a bit similar to "fell in love with childhoodfriend". Just in this case, the relationship is not taboo. Thus, the game dev can use more trigger-events like confessing in public. Friends who support the confession. Others who are jealous. Rivals. With a non-taboo relationship, there are alot more possibilities. And at the same time, the living-together and awareness-potential also still exist with childhood friends. With the difference, that past developement can be mentioned this time, but not needed to be elaborated either. Like "he sees her childhoodfriend just as a sister". And only this sentence is already fully understandable wihout even needing to elaborate past events. Especially because alot more present events can be used with many more factors, because it is non-taboo, to make up for the lack of the not mentioned past story between them.

 

[anne O'nymous]

The most evident one is that real and believable incest relationships are quite difficult to write.

They are also quite different depending on the context, as different as none incestuous relationship.
There's of course the "blood related" part, that change the relation itself and tweak it's premise, but it's just that, a tweak. There's romantic incestuous relationship as well as pure lust incestuous one, exactly like for none incestuous relationship.

In my youth I used to know a couple that could be defined as "sibling with benefit". The way they presented it, it started out of boredom. I don't remember exactly, and was probably only told a summary, but globally they were alone at home on a week-end, in the skimpy clothes they used to wear in such case, and if I had to dialog the scene, it would probably goes like this:
"What can we do ?"
"Would we be a couple, I would say: let's have sex."
"Ok."
"I was joking."
"I know."
[...]
"In fact I wasn't joking."
"Neither was I."
At no time it crossed their mind that they shouldn't have sex together.

That they can't be an official couple and will never live together, they knew it perfectly well. And, as far as I remember, and as far as they've been honest with me, they never had the intention to be a couple. Hence my "sibling with benefit", because in a way it's the same process. Two persons of opposite sex that like each others and feel close to each others, who have casual sex when they aren't in a relationship with someone else.

Of course, not all incestuous relationship are like that, but it's an illustration of the difficulty to write incest right, because there's no right way to write it. Some of those relationship happens after years of tension/lust growing, and there's at least one, this one, that happen on a whim between two people who don't care a single second about the fact they are sibling.
From my point of view, the key to write a good incest story isn't on the story writing, but on the character writing. You write the story like if it was a totally natural one, and all the incestuous tension come from the characters themselves.

 

[Hagatagar]

That they can't be an official couple and will never live together, they knew it perfectly well. And, as far as I remember, and as far as they've been honest with me, they never had the intention to be a couple. Hence my "sibling with benefit", because in a way it's the same process. Two persons of opposite sex that like each others and feel close to each others, who have casual sex when they aren't in a relationship with someone else.

Well, that's actually way more common than you might think it to be.
Furthermore, when siblings "try sex out" it's usually not because they want to become a couple, but because they like each other enough to do something like that.

and there's at least one, this one, that happen on a whim between two people who don't care a single second about the fact they are sibling.

Still, their relationship was rooted in a foundation that would allow for such a thing to happen in the first place. And that's what needs to be portrayed to make that scene you described possible and apprehensible, without it sounding like a generic porn plot.

This of course is also true for the example Loro described, about the years of living-together and the slow build up of awareness and attraction.
Which could and probably should be made noticeable in the behavior of those characters even without the need for flashbacks, but still within a "normal" familial relationship. But like I wrote before, that's not an easy task to do.

From my point of view, the key to write a good incest story isn't on the story writing, but on the character writing.

Exactly, and with good character writing one can make even bad stories work. Slice of life stories are a good example for that.

 

[anne O'nymous]

Still, their relationship was rooted in a foundation that would allow for such a thing to happen in the first place.

Totally.
I remember going at their home one day, the guy from in the same "class" than me, and seeing the mother wandering in underwear (that I remind as being sexy, but it's perhaps just a fantasy made up by my memory) without even carrying about my presence. I don't think they used to often see each other naked, but the feeling I got (at least as I remember, because it was than 30 years ago) is that if one had to walk naked, from the bathroom to his room by example, no one would be bother by it.
This obviously help. If there were a strong "body taboo" in the family, their relation would never have started.

Exactly, and with good character writing one can make even bad stories work. Slice of life stories are a good example for that.

Totally again.

And it's the issue I have with most incest games. They tend to portray, at starts, the characters as totally scared by the perspective of an incestuous relationship, while there's no way that such characters would end in an incestuous relationship.
That they are opposed to the idea, of course it would works. But there's a difference between "we are sibling, it's something we shouldn't do", and the usual "are you totally crazy ? I'm your sister, why the fuck do you dare looking at me when I only wear my underwear".

 

[woody554]

beginning writers (and their fans) don't generally understand the basics of storytelling so they always release the tension instantly. that's it, really.

 

[Za_Warudo]

And it's the issue I have with most incest games. They tend to portray, at starts, the characters as totally scared by the perspective of an incestuous relationship, while there's no way that such characters would end in an incestuous relationship.
That they are opposed to the idea, of course it would works. But there's a difference between "we are sibling, it's something we shouldn't do", and the usual "are you totally crazy ? I'm your sister, why the fuck do you dare looking at me when I only wear my underwear".

I more or less agree with all of you and all of you have provided interesting insights, but this is perhaps the one that most portrays my idea: if a sister/brother (but of course this applies to all types of relatives) is totally disgusted/scared from the idea of incest, how the hell is it possible that from one moment to the next he completely changes his mind without even a particularly strong stimulus?
Either you create a story and a long journey of "maturation" and disinhibition about it, or you already start with a certain open-mindedness about incest or about yourself, others and/or life in general: I personally adore when in incestuous games (but also books, comics, etc...) the characters involved already have an open mind and a good relationship with each other, with even scenes in which they "tease" each other, but obviously without exaggerating and exceeding limits, and above all with basic humour.

 

[woody554]

if a sister/brother (but of course this applies to all types of relatives) is totally disgusted/scared from the idea of incest, how the hell is it possible that from one moment to the next he completely changes his mind without even a particularly strong stimulus?

denial. people often have all kinds of superficial thoughts and beliefs about who they are or SHOULD be, but it's generally thought that the truth will be revealed only under pressure. ultimately it's your actions in those critical moments that define you, rather than anything you might've said or even thought about it before. people want to think they're 'good' and that they'd always 'do the right thing', but it's not how life works.

also denial of shameful urges often manifests as disgust, anger and even hostility towards that very thing, so that would be more than expected from someone with denied shameful urges.

but of course however you motivate the flip, the writer must be able to sell it. and that's the real problem in these stories rather than the time frame. even if every character denies aggressively any chance of incestuous urges, the thought must be planted into reader's mind before things actually move forward or it'll feel out of character.