Ren'Py The Library Story [v0.97.5.5] [Latissa & Xaljio]

[Lynn]

I'm honestly willing to give these guys the benefit of doubt. 750€/m/pp is not that much money to live off, even in Russia. They don't seem to be good at estimating how long things take, and honestly I don't blame them. I know people who are paid 10x as much as them to estimate how long some project or task will take and those people are still only acceptably correct like 60% of the time. Game development is a fractal of things that you discover you still need to do, and more often than not the last 10% of a deliverable takes longer than the first 90%. There's devs who indeed are good at pumping out content on a regular schedule, but cast a look at the various abandoned projects here to see what kind of toll that takes. Regardless of their skill, they've at least persevered to continue developing a game while making less money than many of the talented serial abandoners on here.

My working assumption is that they need the 750/mo to survive, and as much as they would like to pause the patreon until the update is done, they can't actually afford to. I imagine they're experiencing a lot of stress about the situation and honestly, there's truly very few things as demoralising as working on a task that's considerably past its deadline and you keep discovering more things that need fixing/finishing/polishing.

750 is not the kind of money where I demand accountability from indie devs, especially given their likely living conditions.

I think it's funny that none of this adresses the little parade they put on every time they promise an update that's delivered, like, 4 months past the date they chose to announce themselves
I guess they need more money to come up with a more original song and dance

 

[MrBlack ✌]

That`s not right Latissa have 172 patrons and 650 euro per month, Xaljio have 273 patrons and 739 euro per month.
The data are given from their pages, you may check it: "

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" and "

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".

misunderstanding
I just meant, someone paying 20 € per month is paying 240 € per year. And the last update was a year ago. So he's payign 240 € per update.
The creators on the other side got about roughly 150.000 € over the years. (There are websites showing the the number of patreons and the paid money over time.)

 

[MrBlack ✌]

Instead of nagging over the small teams that make under 1000$ per month - Who delivers small updates once in a while.
Should we not focus on the more interesting big teams like:
- Innocent witches who make over 20.000$ per month and have not delivered a update in over 1 year?
[...]

Maybe switched the facts?! This game had no update for a year.
Innocent Witches had an update on February, 14th (public, for free).

 

[Zellemate]

Maybe switched the facts?! This game had no update for a year.
Innocent Witches had an update on February, 14th (public, for free).

Adding in a 5 min Halloween story patch with a few chibi CG arts hardly count as an update.
- Which is also why the thread on F95 have not been updated for over a year if you look at the date.

I can suggest to Latissa and Xaljio to do mini updates as well so it "looks better on paper"?
- I doubt anybody would like that honestly

 

[MrBlack ✌]

Adding in a 5 min Halloween story patch with a few chibi CG arts hardly count as an update.
- Which is also why the thread on F95 have not been updated for over a year if you look at the date.

I can suggest to Latissa and Xaljio to do mini updates as well so it "looks better on paper"?
- I doubt anybody would like that honestly

You can suggest to Latissa and Xaljio to do updates on their self set release dates, rather than ¼+ year later.
- I doubt anybody would hate that honestly

 

[Johngalt52]

I'm not going to lie; I'm pretty sure Zellemate is one of the creators, or he is just a super simp for getting ripped off.

 

[S1cK]

I'm not going to lie; I'm pretty sure Zellemate is one of the creators, or he is just a super simp for getting ripped off.

yes hes surely biased as hes also a mod in their discord and helped them with I think it was translations/ playtesting in the past (according to him). Instead of finally acknowledging how scummy latissa and xalijo are hes resorting to whataboutism. tells you all you need to know

 

[Zellemate]

You can suggest to Latissa and Xaljio to do updates on their self set release dates, rather than ¼+ year later.
- I doubt anybody would hate that honestly

Well I have done that, and I am doing that still.
- Trying to convince them to be more transparent and to come up with better ways of releasing patches.

I'm not going to lie; I'm pretty sure Zellemate is one of the creators, or he is just a super simp for getting ripped off.

Close enough, I'm on their bugtesting team and translations/grammar team(unpaid obviously).

yes hes surely biased as hes also a mod in their discord and helped them with I think it was translations/ playtesting in the past (according to him). Instead of finally acknowledging how scummy latissa and xalijo are hes resorting to whataboutism. tells you all you need to know

If you don't like the game nor the creators you don't have to follow them in this thread.

 

[Lynn]

If you don't like the game nor the creators you don't have to follow them in this thread.

It's 2024 and people still think "if you don't like just close your eyes" is some kind of argument, if you don't like criticism then... I don't know what options you have. Not a very convincing rebuttal when your only comeback is "don't say those things that you are saying".

 

[Perniciousducks]

If you don't like the game nor the creators you don't have to follow them in this thread.

F95 exists for edgy teenagers to pretend they know how the world works and shit talk people.

 

[Zellemate]

It's 2024 and people still think "if you don't like just close your eyes" is some kind of argument, if you don't like criticism then... I don't know what options you have. Not a very convincing rebuttal when your only comeback is "don't say those things that you are saying".

When people call others(ind this case Latissa and Xaljio) for scummy or scammers(or whatever) I don't really find that to be good critique but rather just badmouthing the devs. with their personal annoyances for them.
- I actually listen if there are fair critique, and as some have already mentioned -> Get the devs. to post updates faster and get more control over their release schedule, I will take that forward to the developers.
Since I actually find that to be fair critique and have the same opinion myself. So yes I will talk again with them... again! Regarding this subject.

 

[MrBlack ✌]

Well I have done that, and I am doing that still.
- Trying to convince them to be more transparent and to come up with better ways of releasing patches.
[...]

 

[Lynn]

When people call others(ind this case Latissa and Xaljio) for scummy or scammers(or whatever) I don't really find that to be good critique but rather just badmouthing the devs. with their personal annoyances for them.
- I actually listen if there are fair critique, and as some have already mentioned -> Get the devs. to post updates faster and get more control over their release schedule, I will take that forward to the developers.
Since I actually find that to be fair critique and have the same opinion myself. So yes I will talk again with them... again! Regarding this subject.

maybe "fair critique" would be warranted if they didn't the exact same thing (I'm not exaggerating, beat for beat) SEVEN YEARS AGO already, which you already know because you already said the exact same thing too
the "fair critique" you're asking for is the one displayed right now. there is available historical data here. let that sink in. that alone is enough to discredit whatever tantrum it is you're having about "edgy teenagers". are you seriously trying to convince anyone with that?

They're really handling this in all the wrong ways... Delayed the release two times, and now they're saying "remember there's 24 hours in a day LOL"... At this point they're just mocking people giving them money for making such a mistake.

 

[Perniciousducks]

maybe "fair critique" would be warranted if they didn't the exact same thing (I'm not exaggerating, beat for beat) SEVEN YEARS AGO already, which you already know because you already said the exact same thing too
the "fair critique" you're asking for is the one displayed right now. there is available historical data here. let that sink in. that alone is enough to discredit whatever tantrum it is you're having about "edgy teenagers". are you seriously trying to convince anyone with that?

I’m the one that said you’re just an edgy teenager. Your inability to read and immediately lash out at someone completely different does nothing to dissuade me from that notion.

Like I said, f95 is not a place for adults to talk about things, it’s a place for edgy, angst ridden diatribes about scammers from teenagers based on made up facts that may as well be Colbert truthiness skits.

 

[Aesimar]

"All this within April"

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[Boblet]

The progress of this game was a massive issue long, long before events in Ukraine. You can look back at the discussion to see that. The devs are horrendous procrastinators. Lots of promises. Lots of missed deadlines. Procrastinators always have a routine at work and on here...deadline approaches, don't produce anything, but reveal an outline of where you are going with promises of an even bigger release...Whatever their next dealine is they will miss it but give you another teaser of where they are at and a promise of something big. After repeated missed deadines, they will rush something half assed out the door.

I'll just leave this here for the SECOND time. I posted this months ago and sadly was proved right.

zelle I cannot believe you have not given up on them at this point. You are a much more patient and better person than me. But let's face it, they are hopeless. My assumption is they are working on a different game, but even if that is or is not the case, to paraphrase Fallout: "Procrastinators...Procrastinators never change."

Goodwill is hard earned and very easily lost.