VN Ren'Py The Neverwhere Tales [v0.5.0.4p] [Ceolag]

[Pixillin']

We were talking about the Templars. If we must go back to Finn again...

When you find the Templar that did it, let me know, I am giving them a medal for protecting the Templars from a surprise enemy attack. The Templar defenders are heroes as far as I am concerned. The Elves carried out a surprise attack against human interests and were the aggressors not the Templars. You should be mad at the elves who ordered the attack, that is who got her killed. The Templars were just defending themselves. In a couple of my playthroughs I killed her myself and gladly did so. Crazy cow kept trying to kill me. No sympathy for her.

Can we get back on topic now.

Sure but (obviously I disagree with you on all of those points) and it's all part of the package to me.

1) Treated MC like shit, "girlfriend" is a male prostitute, parents tried to get him killed
2) Their organization itself is a bad thing, that should disband - not least because of the current weak leadership.
and
3) Killed Finn

I won't knowingly have anything to do with any Templar or anyone who turns out to be connected to the Templars (unless they are willing to sever those ties - permanently and completely).

 

[Dessolos]

We were talking about the Templars. If we must go back to Finn again...

can always go back to the Kaija wars for the 100th time

 

[Grumpy Old Aussie]

As a fan of Hunter, the Reckoning I see them as most factions on that set. Every one of them is corrupted and their operatives only work under a need to know basis. In the World of Darkness setting, only freelancer hunters may possibly be entirely good because the others are either brainwashed or corrupted.

I don't see them as a lost cause of corruption. They definitely need a change in leadership.

I think the example of Linnae is a good illustration. Linnae has devoted herself to the Templars to the point of giving up her family and then risks her position by circumventing the leadership. She has lost respect for the leadership. She didn't care she was kicked out of the council. Why would she. They are inept fools, just trying to stick old bandaids on new wounds. She doesn't want to be associated with the council yet she is still devoted to the Templars as she hasn't lost faith in the organization, just the leadership. Hence why she wanted to explain the Templars to the MC. She wanted him to understand the Templars aren't the leadership.

 

[Pixillin']

I don't see them as a lost cause of corruption. They definitely need a change in leadership.

I think the example of Linnae is a good illustration. Linnae has devoted herself to the Templars to the point of giving up her family and then risks her position by circumventing the leadership. She has lost respect for the leadership. She didn't care she was kicked out of the council. Why would she. They are inept fools, just trying to stick old bandaids on new wounds. She doesn't want to be associated with the council yet she is still devoted to the Templars as she hasn't lost faith in the organization, just the leadership. Hence why she wanted to explain the Templars to the MC. She wanted him to understand the Templars aren't the leadership.

That's kinda my problem with them, they should be operating in secret, they shouldn't be lying to or abandoning their families. They should be right out in the open, and if there's some shadow organization that won't let them operate in the open, then shut them down let everything go to hell and it will all be out in the open anyway. Like I said, I wouldn't want to lead them and if that somehow happened anyway, I wouldn't want to keep a single one of them on the team - not even Linnae. She's been the best of them, but she should retire and move on.

 

[Grumpy Old Aussie]

Sure but (obviously I disagree with you on all of those points) and it's all part of the package to me.

1) Treated MC like shit, "girlfriend" is a male prostitute, parents tried to get him killed
2) Their organization itself is a bad thing, that should disband - not least because of the current weak leadership.
and
3) Killed Finn

I won't knowingly have anything to do with any Templar or anyone who turns out to be connected to the Templars (unless they are willing to sever those ties - permanently and completely).

1) Finn tried to kill him twice, that is worse. Templars never tried to kill him.
2) The elves are just as bad, xenophobic culture content to slaughter anyone different.
3) So what? I killed Finn, you going to kill me too? The Templars did it in self defense. She was out of control. Probably got herself killed.

The Kaija love path suddenly looks more appealing.

 

[Grumpy Old Aussie]

That's kinda my problem with them, they should be operating in secret, they shouldn't be lying to or abandoning their families. They should be right out in the open, and if there's some shadow organization that won't let them operate in the open, then shut them down let everything go to hell and it will all be out in the open anyway. Like I said, I wouldn't want to lead them and if that somehow happened anyway, I wouldn't want to keep a single one of them on the team - not even Linnae. She's been the best of them, but she should retire and move on.

I agree with most of that, scary.

 

[Pixillin']

1) Finn tried to kill him twice, that is worse. Templars never tried to kill him.
2) The elves are just as bad, xenophobic culture content to slaughter anyone different.
3) So what? I killed Finn, you going to kill me too? The Templars did it in self defense. She was out of control. Probably got herself killed.

The Kaija love path suddenly looks more appealing.

She did, but if you don't kill her she changes - not just her actions, but her views, so does Medb - partially through MC and partially through the changed Finn. Unless there is some new update that I don't know about, I don't think she attacked. I suspect that she was on a peace mission. And as far as I'm concerned the Templars, his parents especially, did try to kill him at least indirectly by not telling him about the world he had been born into and that there was and always would be a target on his back. The elves are xenophobic because humans have been trying to kill them and driving them into ever smaller areas of land for hundreds / thousands of years. MC managed to break through that and convince them that something else was possible - and then they killed Finn. And no ... I'm not going to kill you ... I have no idea who you are, only that you're Australian(?) which means you are about as far from me as you could be and still be on this planet and I'd never even be mad at someone for playing the game the way they want to. I may disagree with them, but that's about it.

 

[Grumpy Old Aussie]

can always go back to the Kaija wars for the 100th time

SSSSHHHHHHHH! Don't wake the baby.

 

[Grumpy Old Aussie]

She did, but if you don't kill her she changes - not just her actions, but her views, so does Medb - partially through MC and partially through the changed Finn. Unless there is some new update that I don't know about, I don't think she attacked. I suspect that she was on a peace mission. And as far as I'm concerned the Templars, his parents especially, did try to kill him at least indirectly by not telling him about the world he had been born into and that there was and always would be a target on his back. The elves are xenophobic because humans have been trying to kill them and driving them into ever smaller areas of land for hundreds / thousands of years. MC managed to break through that and convince them that something else was possible - and then they killed Finn. And no ... I'm not going to kill you ... I have no idea who you are, only that you're Australian(?) which means you are about as far from me as you could be and still be on this planet and I'd never even be mad at someone for playing the game the way they want to. I may disagree with them, but that's about it.

You raise some very good points, Unfortunately, I have run out of time for now. I'll come back to it later if I get a chance.

 

[xapican]

SSSSHHHHHHHH! Don't wake the baby.

Thank you ! you seem suddently not so Old !

 

[Dr.TSoni]

The Kaija love path suddenly looks more appealing.

 

[SamualHand]

View attachment 4590239

The black dwarf with the helmet is coming .... maybe he brings puppies too?

 

[Grumpy Old Aussie]

She did, but if you don't kill her she changes - not just her actions, but her views, so does Medb - partially through MC and partially through the changed Finn.

She appears to change, you really don't know if she is being normal until you do something she is offended by again and she could very well try to kill you again. It's too short a time frame for me to believe someone who wanted to kill me so badly has truly changed, I don't believe it. Medb on the other hand is a long term character and despite her hatred of humans didn't try and kill me even though she had the opportunity. Do you see the difference.

Unless there is some new update that I don't know about, I don't think she attacked. I suspect that she was on a peace mission.

If it was a peace mission the elves would have said to make a favorable impression on the MC. They had him on side. A peace mission would have cemented his feelings. They did the opposite, they made sure he knew no details. They were trying to hide what they were doing. There was no reason to hide a pace mission, but every reason to hide a hostile mission against human interests.

And as far as I'm concerned the Templars, his parents especially, did try to kill him at least indirectly by not telling him about the world he had been born into and that there was and always would be a target on his back. The elves are xenophobic because humans have been trying to kill them and driving them into ever smaller areas of land for hundreds / thousands of years. MC managed to break through that and convince them that something else was possible - and then they killed Finn. And no ...

Poor judgment is not trying to kill someone, it would be manslaughter at best. Finn wanted to fill the MC with holes until he was dead. She had willful intent. The parents just fucked up. Big difference. I'm no fan of the parents, but they didn't try to deliberately kill the MC, Finn did twice.

I'm not going to kill you ... I have no idea who you are, only that you're Australian(?) which means you are about as far from me as you could be and still be on this planet and I'd never even be mad at someone for playing the game the way they want to. I may disagree with them, but that's about it.

All good, I didn't think you would, I was making a point through exaggeration. I can't remember what that is called at the moment.

We will have to agree to disagree I think. It's great to see you can have a good discussion, I was concerned there for a while. I was starting to think you might need some help.

 

[Grumpy Old Aussie]

Thank you ! you seem suddently not so Old !

I'm not sure about that, feeling extra old tonight.

 

[Knightcvel]

I don't resent the fact of Finn trying to kill MC. The elves culture is different, but they are more trustfull and honorable. I attribute her attitudes to cultural differences and old grudges. As soon as her trust was conquered they changed their ways and treated MC with more respect. Actually, the elf society is better than human in a lot of aspects.

 

[Dr.TSoni]

more trustfull and honorable

These words are not applicable to "the duel is until the death of one of the two" "you drew your sword to protect yourself from an attack, you accepted the duel" and last but not least "you won the duel, it doesn't necessarily have to end with the death of one of you, we can end it here in friendship"

 

[xapican]

These words are not applicable to "the duel is until the death of one of the two" "you drew your sword to protect yourself from an attack, you accepted the duel" and last but not least "you won the duel, it doesn't necessarily have to end with the death of one of you, we can end it here in friendship"

just a small detail, if the MC wouldn't be attacked, then the Magical enhancement of "Durendal" wouldn't be activated and he were killed by Finn, since he is clearly not trained in swordfight, and hand to hand combat.

 

[Knightcvel]

just a small detail, if the MC wouldn't be attacked, then the Magical enhancement of "Durendal" wouldn't be activated and he were killed by Finn, since he is clearly not trained in swordfight, and hand to hand combat.

Linnae had already introduced him to the basics at the time.

 

[xapican]

Linnae had already introduced him to the basics at the time.

Yes, and if you are on the Kaija friend or LI path and you sparred with her, you have a bit more combat skill, and are able to get the achievement with Nightingale, never the less, Finn has perfected combat, since a early age and she is 200 yrs old, so no no chance against her without magical buff, just remeber how shocked Nightingale was, on the first attack of Finn, she said after that she barley saw her moving.

 

[e6mill]

Finn has perfected combat, since a early age and she is 200 yrs old, so no no chance against her without magical buff, just remeber how shocked Nightingale was, on the first attack of Finn, she said after that she barley saw her moving.