The Problem with the "Open World/Sandbox" Game Format

[Holy Bacchus]

There seems to be a growing trend of devs making games that are less linear and have more of an open-world/sandox feel to them whereby the players are more in control of the MC; going from room to room, location to location, and repeating events in order to build up points for both the MC and other characters. I don't have a problem with this type of game, in fact I enjoy many of them, the problem that I feel exists with this type of game is that many of them seem to lack a narrative that drives the actions of the MC and instead opt for a simple "complete x to unlock y and advance progress with z" and it makes the game feel kind of shallow and hollow. Also, due to the complexity of developing these games, what with their point-scoring systems and multiple choices branching into multiple routes, the updates to these games often have just a small amount of new content even after months of development and this combined with the lack of a narrative makes the updates feel empty.

Many of these games have great visuals, hot characters, and good animations, but they can tend to feel disappointing when compared to linear, narrative-driven games whose updates often last longer and have more content. I get that these devs aren't typically experienced writers and also game developers, but I'm concerned that many of the more impressive and enjoyable open-world/sandbox games have the potential to fail because of both their undefined narratives as well as their complex development process leading to small amounts of new content ever few months and would sometimes rather see these games play out as linear stories.

 

[89898hh]

Most of these types of games feel empty,grindy,boring and pointless to me.

 

[polywog]

Electroconvulsive therapy has been used, and is sometimes successful in treating people who feel that they just can't find their way in life, and games. Needing a walkthough, or someone to hold your hand and guide you through life, and games is nothing to be ashamed of, it happens to a lot of people, but there is hope.

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[darkshaw]

I think the problem is the sense of achivment a lot of sandbox games don't have a good balance between linear content and grind content and same goes the opposite way if there isn't enough effort and you get easy scenes you'll also basically feel uneasy Underachivment
Good sandbox:
Man of the house ( or something like that)
Bad sandbox
Superpowered

 

[Holy Bacchus]

I think the problem is the sense of achivment a lot of sandbox games don't have a good balance between linear content and grind content and same goes the opposite way if there isn't enough effort and you get easy scenes you'll also basically feel uneasy Underachivment
Good sandbox:
Man of the house ( or something like that)
Bad sandbox
Superpowered

Summertime Saga is also a good example of a sandbox, probably the best out there.

 

[darkshaw]

Summertime Saga is also a good example of a sandbox, probably the best out there.

I see you are a man of culture
Summertime Saga actually is one of my favorite ones and it actually has a good balance
and i forgot to mention also Willy D

 

[VNorth]

Summertime Saga is also a good example of a sandbox, probably the best out there.

Have you played the early versions of the SS? Did you work in the garden for money?

 

[darkshaw]

Have you played the early versions of the SS? Did you work in the garden for money?

Yes i love farming however but also maybe more working in the barn! if you know what i mean

 

[VNorth]

Yes i love farming however but also maybe more working in the barn! if you know what i mean

Is non-working old saves possible to be attributed to a special kind of grind? It is necessary to introduce some novelty into the narrow confines of the usual discussion.

 

[darkshaw]

Is non-working old saves possible to be attributed to a special kind of grind? It is necessary to introduce some novelty into the narrow confines of the usual discussion.

I don't think so maybe there's a bug .....

 

[darkshaw]

Is non-working old saves possible to be attributed to a special kind of grind? It is necessary to introduce some novelty into the narrow confines of the usual discussion.

What would you love to see next in SS?

 

[VNorth]

What would you love to see next in SS?

I love his animation, I do not care what characters he will do next. But it seems to me that the grind in this game has always been.

 

[Holy Bacchus]

Have you played the early versions of the SS? Did you work in the garden for money?

I did, yes, but here's the thing, grinding for that money feels different than the grind in other games. In SS, doing daily chores for a reward of money feels like a more worthwhile and realistic grind because your earning something you can actually use in-game to advance the plot as opposed to how games where you're having the same conversation with someone over and over can feel agonisingly repetitive and dull.

These games are fine if they want to have a grinding element to them, that's not what I think the problem is. Rather it's the lack of a narrative leading to a lack of direction for the game causing it to stagnate with lackluster updates that cause people to give up on the game which can ruin promising games with great characters. I say this because I'm seeing it with many games on this forum where people are giving up because of exactly this and if the trend is the same on Patreon, I worry that some of these otherwise good games could fail.

 

[VNorth]

I did, yes, but here's the thing, grinding for that money feels different than the grind in other games. In SS, doing daily chores for a reward of money feels like a more worthwhile and realistic grind because your earning something you can actually use in-game to advance the plot as opposed to how games where you're having the same conversation with someone over and over can feel agonisingly repetitive and dull.

These games are fine if they want to have a grinding element to them, that's not what I think the problem is. Rather it's the lack of a narrative leading to a lack of direction for the game causing it to stagnate with lackluster updates that cause people to give up on the game which can ruin promising games with great characters. I say this because I'm seeing it with many games on this forum where people are giving up because of exactly this and if the trend is the same on Patreon, I worry that some of these otherwise good games could fail.

Is it permissible for the narration in the sex scenes to be dim?

 

[Holy Bacchus]

Is it permissible for the narration in the sex scenes to be dim?

Dim dialogue isn't the issue, it's the lack of an overall story or reason driving the actions of the MC that I find problematic because it can make the game feel rudderless and hollow.

 

[Nelythia]

Yea I hate most of the sandbox / free roam games due to the devs introducing horrible, boring, pointless and stupid grinds that don't give you any reward. And if they do give you a reward, WOW HOW COOL A 3 SECONDS BOOB GRABBING SCENE, THATS AMAZING. Not.

Also I agree that updates from free roam games are way shorter than from a visual novel.
Honestly, most of the times I just think that developers of annoying free roam games want quick cash with little to no effort. Hence the grinding and too little updates.

Take indecent desires as an example. It started as a VN, it was actually a very awesome game and story to follow.
Then they decided to change it from a VN to a sandbox, now it's a dead game with not any new content at all each update.
The free roam is tedious, it is horrible and there is no hint system WHATSOEVER on what you have to do.
Their walkthrough is completely bad written as well to the point where even if you use it, you have to still figure out what the hell to do.

If I see new games and they have sandbox from the beginning, I don't even bother downloading them anymore.
I really can spend my time better. After all I play those games to mostly have a naughty time with myself.
I don't need actual game elements or grinds in an adult game that I play to get off.
If they want to introduce such boring shit in their games, then they should do real games and not adult games like that with sexual content.

 

[VNorth]

Top game - has no plot (or has a very simple plot), dim narration in sex scenes, open world, grind.
This does not convince to abandon the open world. Devs will try to fill the game with content.

 

[Holy Bacchus]

Yea I hate most of the sandbox / free roam games due to the devs introducing horrible, boring, pointless and stupid grinds that don't give you any reward. And if they do give you a reward, WOW HOW COOL A 3 SECONDS BOOB GRABBING SCENE, THATS AMAZING. Not.

Also I agree that updates from free roam games are way shorter than from a visual novel.
Honestly, most of the times I just think that developers of annoying free roam games want quick cash with little to no effort. Hence the grinding and too little updates.

Take indecent desires as an example. It started as a VN, it was actually a very awesome game and story to follow.
Then they decided to change it from a VN to a sandbox, now it's a dead game with not any new content at all each update.
The free roam is tedious, it is horrible and there is no hint system WHATSOEVER on what you have to do.
Their walkthrough is completely bad written as well to the point where even if you use it, you have to still figure out what the hell to do.

If I see new games and they have sandbox from the beginning, I don't even bother downloading them anymore.
I really can spend my time better. After all I play those games to mostly have a naughty time with myself.
I don't need actual game elements or grinds in an adult game that I play to get off.
If they want to introduce such boring shit in their games, then they should do real games and not adult games like that with sexual content.

I feel like the reason why visual novels have that "more content" feel is that they have a focused story where events unfold in a relatively linear fashion, with some alternate events/scenes depending on a few choices along the way. The dev has a story and they're telling it which gives the game direction, whereas the open-world/sandbox games are so focused on all the different permutations of the points and stats you can gather and choices you can make that they forget to focus on an overarching narrative to drive the characters actions and just focus on the next stage of a relationship development.

I give these guys praise for trying to raise the level of these games, but sometimes I just think they're doing more than they can handle and perhaps it would be best to just simplify.

 

[CarbonBlue]

I see two main, almost insurmountable problems for sandbox games:
1. They require a TON of content in order to get past that empty, boring feeling. The nature of this business being episodic, where we're outputting maybe 150-350 renders per update, it takes several months to make a sandbox seem like anything more than an incomplete beta.
2. Even when you have a good amount of content for each time and place, the gameplay of a sandbox game boils down to hunting for the exact time/place in order to trigger the next event. That, to me, isn't much fun. I'd much rather have a deep, branching story.

 

[dirkbones]

"The DeLuca Family" has a unique solution to the narrative problems of sandbox games. It's a sandbox, meaning you can go choose to go from place to place at different times and such, but, it has a button that lets you advance the plot once certain conditions have been met. It's a clever way to have both the freedom of a sandbox with individual character advancement and gives you the ability to tell a cohesive story.