The rise of the Reluctant MC

baddog99

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Oct 14, 2020
75
98
Hi All,

As the years go by and porn trends change I've noticed an increased amount of games that have an Male MC with conflicting/flipflopping personality traits, I'm talking about The reluctantly dominant ,earnestly adulterous teenager.
I'm not saying games with these characters are bad (my favourite games have these characters) I'm trying to understand why there has been a trend in creating these characters?
Is it because popular games have these characters?
Is it easier to include a plethora of fetishes with these sort of characters?
Are JRPGs to blame?
is it the routing paths in games?
Or is the incest genre the culprit....again?

That being said, below is a short list of Male Dominate games that have characters that are consistent or contain a character arc that becomes "dark" that is both enjoyable to play and with enough porn to keep you interested (Quick Fap Capable, this should be a TAG).
i.e.
High-Rise-Climb,
MidLifeCrisis,
Lust and Power,
iNSight-of-you,
SuperPowered
Vae-Victis "BRAND NEW"

I'm not saying the above games are the apogee of the genre (or even of THE genre) but the MC isn't just letting things happen to him or trying to take a moral stance outside his character.

Anyway, I'm interested to hear your thoughts and if there was a game you played that had a interesting MC outside the norm.


Cheers!
 

Doorknob22

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I'll bite. I believe that for some people it's easier to identify with an MC who indulges in (what society perceives as) immoral behavior such as cheating, performing incest, etc. if the other party (i.e. the girls) are into it.

The next logical step is to portray the women as not only into it but actually initiating the immoral behavior, thus the MC can enjoy the activities without making (what society perceives as) immoral choices because "Hey! She started it!"

Additionally, I think most people perceive themselves as underdogs and the "reluctant MC" is a classic underdog, hence easier to identify with.
 

lemonfreak

The Freakiest of Lemons
Oct 24, 2018
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We're living in a post #MeToo world with a greater awareness that some previously acceptable behaviour isn't cool. For example, while I'm sure nobody on the boards would spike a girl's drink but a lot of us, myself included, would have thought nothing of topping up her wine glass a few times in order to get her relaxed in the past and we might think twice about such behaviour now. Similarly, when we try to move from first to second and are told no, we would likely stop now whereas, in the past, it was often believed that women said no even though they didn't mean it; they supposedly wanted men to push a little so that they didn't off as sluts.

On the flip side, women don't seem to be expected to pretend they don't want sex these days and I, for one, love it when a woman knows what she wants and isn't afraid to tell me :love:

It is easy for me to believe that all of this would reflected in the world of adult gaming, just as it everywhere else.
 

fitgirlbestgirl

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Jul 27, 2017
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We're living in a post #MeToo world with a greater awareness that some previously acceptable behaviour isn't cool.
Now that's a depressing thought. Also, filling a woman's wine glass is a #metoo violation now?

I have only played one of the games mentioned and you didn't really describe it well, but I'll give it a shot. Most devs suck at making characters with believable personalities and motivations in the first place, writing a driven MC with clear goals and a strong character is a lot harder than writing a weak player-insert (who will be closer personality-wise to the likely player anyway) who just gets acted upon by female love interests and then gets to enact his "dominance" to feel like a tough guy.
 

woody554

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Jan 20, 2018
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people like corruption fantasies, and that's what corruption means. transforming from good to bad.
 
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DuniX

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Plausible Deniability if the Mob comes after you for promoting Rape Culture.
If you Sin In-Game, you are Hanged IRL.
 

lemonfreak

The Freakiest of Lemons
Oct 24, 2018
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Now that's a depressing thought. Also, filling a woman's wine glass is a #metoo violation now?

I have only played one of the games mentioned and you didn't really describe it well, but I'll give it a shot. Most devs suck at making characters with believable personalities and motivations in the first place, writing a driven MC with clear goals and a strong character is a lot harder than writing a weak player-insert (who will be closer personality-wise to the likely player anyway) who just gets acted upon by female love interests and then gets to enact his "dominance" to feel like a tough guy.
Well, if I were to keep doing it so that she doesn't realise how much she's drunk then it could be argued that the consent I get isn't valid. You would agree putting a roofie in her drink is wrong, you would probably agree that putting a shot of vodka in her beer is wrong (my wife drinks guinness so that would work, not so much with a heineken), I believe leaving her confused as to whether she's had 2 or 4 glasses worth is also wrong.
 

Sassadin

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Apr 15, 2020
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It's because many people can't totally separate between fantasy and reality. Hence they feel bad when they do something wrong even in game.

No one choose their own sexual kinks. No one wake up in the morning one day and say to themselves: I will be a necrophile (or pedophile, or sadist, or into beastiality etc.). But they are still burdened by the fact that these kinks are taboo in their society.

Says someone has a kink for maledom/sexual harassment/rape stuff. They are naturally drew to these kinds of games. But at the same time, if they can't totally separate between fantasy and reality, they will feel bad because they are "doing" something wrong. They are conflicted. In one hand, they know that sexual harassment/rape is wrong. In another hand, it's just a game and it's their sexual kink. And that's where the conflicting/flipflopping MC comes from. It's a reflection of this kind of phenomenon.
 

godkingxerxes

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Sep 27, 2020
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Going to check out some of the games you linked here.

I do tire of trying to build a character my way but the auto dialogue takes him a different way. And I can't believe 9 fucking years later I'm still bitching about auto-dialogue.
 
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fitgirlbestgirl

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Jul 27, 2017
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Well, if I were to keep doing it so that she doesn't realise how much she's drunk then it could be argued that the consent I get isn't valid. You would agree putting a roofie in her drink is wrong, you would probably agree that putting a shot of vodka in her beer is wrong (my wife drinks guinness so that would work, not so much with a heineken), I believe leaving her confused as to whether she's had 2 or 4 glasses worth is also wrong.
Oh, you literally meant doing it without her noticing? Yeah, that's weird, but it would also be weird for her not to notice. Also it depends on the circumstances and why you're doing it. Are you literally putting a little bit of wine in her glass every time she's not looking going "HE HE HE, my devious plan to take advantage of her is progressing." or did you notice that her glass was empty and refilled it without going "ATTENTION ATTENTION I HAVE REFILLED YOUR GLASS, I HAVE NO ILL INTENT."
 

Rando Civ

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People like conventional things. That is a covention. Not very creative, but it is what it is. Its a type of MC that seems innoffensive and non-threatening, granted thats a very superficial view of it.

From my humble opinion, creativity and original ideas are better and you should never let peer presure or bullies dictate what you want to do.
 
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baddog99

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Oct 14, 2020
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I'll bite. I believe that for some people it's easier to identify with an MC who indulges in (what society perceives as) immoral behavior such as cheating, performing incest, etc. if the other party (i.e. the girls) are into it.

The next logical step is to portray the women as not only into it but actually initiating the immoral behavior, thus the MC can enjoy the activities without making (what society perceives as) immoral choices because "Hey! She started it!"

Additionally, I think most people perceive themselves as underdogs and the "reluctant MC" is a classic underdog, hence easier to identify with.
Escapism is probably the main reason we play these games...any game for that matter and relinquishing the player of the moral responsibility could be a justifiable excuse for these characters but I must argue that is a little presumptuous assuming that the player can not differentiate the game "fantasy" from reality.
love your game by the way!

We're living in a post #MeToo world with a greater awareness that some previously acceptable behaviour isn't cool. For example, while I'm sure nobody on the boards would spike a girl's drink but a lot of us, myself included, would have thought nothing of topping up her wine glass a few times in order to get her relaxed in the past and we might think twice about such behaviour now. Similarly, when we try to move from first to second and are told no, we would likely stop now whereas, in the past, it was often believed that women said no even though they didn't mean it; they supposedly wanted men to push a little so that they didn't off as sluts.

On the flip side, women don't seem to be expected to pretend they don't want sex these days and I, for one, love it when a woman knows what she wants and isn't afraid to tell me :love:

It is easy for me to believe that all of this would reflected in the world of adult gaming, just as it everywhere else.
Our "Moral Line" is just below what we are willing to do, and the closer we get to that line the further down we push it! Not to get political, I do wonder when the "new wave" of censorship will begin targeting media outside the main stream....its deeply concerning.

Now that's a depressing thought. Also, filling a woman's wine glass is a #metoo violation now?

I have only played one of the games mentioned and you didn't really describe it well, but I'll give it a shot. Most devs suck at making characters with believable personalities and motivations in the first place, writing a driven MC with clear goals and a strong character is a lot harder than writing a weak player-insert (who will be closer personality-wise to the likely player anyway) who just gets acted upon by female love interests and then gets to enact his "dominance" to feel like a tough guy.
Shakespeare isn't what I expect as we are mostly here for more "baser" desires but surely a clear expression of it isn't a lot to ask for??

people like corruption fantasies, and that's what corruption means. transforming from good to bad.
Most the Male Dom games MC wields some sort of power and the truest fact of all is "Power corrupts all, and Absolute power corrupts absolutely" And watching this unfold will always be interesting. GoT, House of Cards, Breaking Bad, etc....
 
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baddog99

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Oct 14, 2020
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It's because many people can't totally separate between fantasy and reality. Hence they feel bad when they do something wrong even in game.

No one choose their own sexual kinks. No one wake up in the morning one day and say to themselves: I will be a necrophile (or pedophile, or sadist, or into beastiality etc.). But they are still burdened by the fact that these kinks are taboo in their society.

Says someone has a kink for maledom/sexual harassment/rape stuff. They are naturally drew to these kinds of games. But at the same time, if they can't totally separate between fantasy and reality, they will feel bad because they are "doing" something wrong. They are conflicted. In one hand, they know that sexual harassment/rape is wrong. In another hand, it's just a game and it's their sexual kink. And that's where the conflicting/flipflopping MC comes from. It's a reflection of this kind of phenomenon.
I understand where you coming from, the idea that his actions are just the players inner conflict represented and acted out and a game is safe place to express that....so I guess you saying the fault lies in the decision trees these games have...I believe I'm not the only one who requires a walkthrough before playing some games just to avoid certain scenarios (NTR) but If I was a game designer I wouldn't want to limit the options available...so maybe if the decisions we make state the outcomes by default instead of waiting for Maim Lain or some other Modder to make one? or making the walkthrough optional?
 

anne O'nymous

I'm not grumpy, I'm just coded that way.
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We're living in a post #MeToo world with a greater awareness that some previously acceptable behaviour isn't cool.
I think that all is in your use of the word "awareness".
It's not a question of morality, globally we aren't less morale than others just because we are perverts. It's not either a question of knowledge, we know what rape is, what it imply, and that "it's bad". But there's a difference between knowing and being hit in the face by the reality.

And it's what #MeToo did. It hit us right in the face with a reality that for once wasn't reported by some third party, but by the victims. A reality sometimes expressed in a so raw way that it became for us the crude reality it is for them. And all this said with their words, therefore with their suffering, their trauma and their cries.
Take what Evan Rachel Wood said, way more than once, by example. I'm fully aware that conjugal rapes exist, and I know well that it's not because she stop resisting that it's not a rape ; it's self preservation, since there's clearly no way to escape this terrible fate, let it end as fast as possible and with the less possible physical damages. But reading all she had to say on the subject, suddenly I questioned myself about what rape can be ; I don't talk here about the act itself, but its premises, its context. And, more important, its context as seen from the rapist side. What I mean here, is that the victim can be totally under your control. Intentionally, or not, brainwashed, letting you do whatever you want, not because she want it, but because she think that she have to, that she need to.
Take all those female fans that "throw themselves in the bed of their favorite singer" by example (the quotation marks being here to describe it as it was perceived for decades). They have the chance of their life, their idol agree to met them in person. Think about it, imagine that you're in your teenage or young adult years, and the person you admire more than anyone else agree to met you face to face in private ? Would you say no ? Obviously not, and neither they did. Then come the moment where this idol start to go too far. How many of those fans were, at the moment it happened, lucid enough to see it as what it was, an aggression, and not as something you've to pass through, some kind of mandatory price to pay for this opportunity they had ?
Therefore, how many of them have been "raped with their consent" (please women, excuse-me for this really disturbing, to write and surely even more to read, expression) ? Because it's what happened, they didn't wanted to have sex with this person, still they weren't in a mental state where they could have denied it. They didn't said "no", they didn't tried to resist, at no time they said or did something that can be seen as a deny of consent ; yet they don't wanted it, they would have preferred for it to not happen.

And when you realize this, when your awareness arise, you start looking at games with other eyes. You start, consciously or not, to feel uneasy when the game you play don't express some kind of consent. And I don't talk about a verbal consent, but when the girl let the MC have sex with her, and seem to fear the MC in any other situation, it start to be really unwholesome.
I have nothing against corruption, rough sex and all. I corrupted by wife, or perhaps is it her who corrupted me, but whatever the way I treated her during sex, at the end we were both happy, lovely, and full tenderness with each other. It was clearly and truly what she wanted, and I think that it's what #MeToo is changing in the scene. We don't care how dark can be the sex in the game, as long as the story show us that it's truly what the girl want. But if there's too much doubts, or if it's clearly not what she want, then we are disturbed, and decide to play something else.
Not just because we understand that something is wrong, but because we've read victims talk about it. It's something to know that "it shouldn't happen like that in real life", but it's another thing to know it and to have, in a part of our unconscious memory, those words we've read about it. #MeToo increased our empathy. We don't anymore have a blurry idea of what rape is and what are the consequences, we have precise description of both...

In the end, the scene is just adjusting itself. There will still be corruption games. There will still be hypno games. There will still be hard BDSM, sex slavery and all. But the way they'll be presented will change, and is even starting to change. Outside of these corruption, hypno, whatever, scenes, the girls will be seen as happy, as really loving the MC. Yes, we are corrupting them. Yes, we are playing with their mind, but we are doing it in a healthy way, we are improving their life, and not turning it into an unsaid hell.
OP named Midlife Crisis as a game having a Male Dominant MC, seeming to oppose it as the reluctant MC he talk about in the start of his comment. I have to fully disagree here. The MC is a pervert, and he don't hesitate to assert is dominance if it's what the girl want, like he don't hesitate to corrupt his wife, because he know that she want it.
But in the same time, he clearly fall on the "reluctant" side. There isn't a release where he don't insist to remember to the girls that at anytime they can say "no", and that, then, he will immediately stop. He always ask before doing something new, or at least let to the girl the time to decide if she want it or not.
In a way, he is the archetype of the future MCs in corruption games. They'll not hesitate a single second to corrupt the girls, but they'll do it only if the girls effectively want to be corrupted.
 

baddog99

Newbie
Oct 14, 2020
75
98
I think that all is in your use of the word "awareness".
It's not a question of morality, globally we aren't less morale than others just because we are perverts. It's not either a question of knowledge, we know what rape is, what it imply, and that "it's bad". But there's a difference between knowing and being hit in the face by the reality.

And it's what #MeToo did. It hit us right in the face with a reality that for once wasn't reported by some third party, but by the victims. A reality sometimes expressed in a so raw way that it became for us the crude reality it is for them. And all this said with their words, therefore with their suffering, their trauma and their cries.
Take what Evan Rachel Wood said, way more than once, by example. I'm fully aware that conjugal rapes exist, and I know well that it's not because she stop resisting that it's not a rape ; it's self preservation, since there's clearly no way to escape this terrible fate, let it end as fast as possible and with the less possible physical damages. But reading all she had to say on the subject, suddenly I questioned myself about what rape can be ; I don't talk here about the act itself, but its premises, its context. And, more important, its context as seen from the rapist side. What I mean here, is that the victim can be totally under your control. Intentionally, or not, brainwashed, letting you do whatever you want, not because she want it, but because she think that she have to, that she need to.
Take all those female fans that "throw themselves in the bed of their favorite singer" by example (the quotation marks being here to describe it as it was perceived for decades). They have the chance of their life, their idol agree to met them in person. Think about it, imagine that you're in your teenage or young adult years, and the person you admire more than anyone else agree to met you face to face in private ? Would you say no ? Obviously not, and neither they did. Then come the moment where this idol start to go too far. How many of those fans were, at the moment it happened, lucid enough to see it as what it was, an aggression, and not as something you've to pass through, some kind of mandatory price to pay for this opportunity they had ?
Therefore, how many of them have been "raped with their consent" (please women, excuse-me for this really disturbing, to write and surely even more to read, expression) ? Because it's what happened, they didn't wanted to have sex with this person, still they weren't in a mental state where they could have denied it. They didn't said "no", they didn't tried to resist, at no time they said or did something that can be seen as a deny of consent ; yet they don't wanted it, they would have preferred for it to not happen.

And when you realize this, when your awareness arise, you start looking at games with other eyes. You start, consciously or not, to feel uneasy when the game you play don't express some kind of consent. And I don't talk about a verbal consent, but when the girl let the MC have sex with her, and seem to fear the MC in any other situation, it start to be really unwholesome.
I have nothing against corruption, rough sex and all. I corrupted by wife, or perhaps is it her who corrupted me, but whatever the way I treated her during sex, at the end we were both happy, lovely, and full tenderness with each other. It was clearly and truly what she wanted, and I think that it's what #MeToo is changing in the scene. We don't care how dark can be the sex in the game, as long as the story show us that it's truly what the girl want. But if there's too much doubts, or if it's clearly not what she want, then we are disturbed, and decide to play something else.
Not just because we understand that something is wrong, but because we've read victims talk about it. It's something to know that "it shouldn't happen like that in real life", but it's another thing to know it and to have, in a part of our unconscious memory, those words we've read about it. #MeToo increased our empathy. We don't anymore have a blurry idea of what rape is and what are the consequences, we have precise description of both...

In the end, the scene is just adjusting itself. There will still be corruption games. There will still be hypno games. There will still be hard BDSM, sex slavery and all. But the way they'll be presented will change, and is even starting to change. Outside of these corruption, hypno, whatever, scenes, the girls will be seen as happy, as really loving the MC. Yes, we are corrupting them. Yes, we are playing with their mind, but we are doing it in a healthy way, we are improving their life, and not turning it into an unsaid hell.
OP named Midlife Crisis as a game having a Male Dominant MC, seeming to oppose it as the reluctant MC he talk about in the start of his comment. I have to fully disagree here. The MC is a pervert, and he don't hesitate to assert is dominance if it's what the girl want, like he don't hesitate to corrupt his wife, because he know that she want it.
But in the same time, he clearly fall on the "reluctant" side. There isn't a release where he don't insist to remember to the girls that at anytime they can say "no", and that, then, he will immediately stop. He always ask before doing something new, or at least let to the girl the time to decide if she want it or not.
In a way, he is the archetype of the future MCs in corruption games. They'll not hesitate a single second to corrupt the girls, but they'll do it only if the girls effectively want to be corrupted.
I 100% agree with you, I try to stay away from political issues and "movements" because of the holistic nature of these things but I believe the point I failed to get across is fiction is always taken serious when there is a sexual nature to it. I enjoyed Game of Thrones (not season 8) but the reality of it sounds like Hell, not to mention Warhammer 40K, I don't take any of this outside the medium and maybe that what lemonfreak was trying to get across. 90% of the content of this site has no place in reality. I do get slightly concerned when opinions on how fictitious fiction should be, and when we should start censoring ugly human behaviours because of its sexual nature.
With "Midlife Crisis" I guess the fact that he was an adult deciding to corrupt in an dominant way, its been awhile since I played it so the moral ambiguity of his actions are not clear.

Sorry if this comes across as confrontational I really don't want this to become a debate on fetishes and what's right or wrong. We are all perverts to someone. ;)
 
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DuniX

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we know what rape is,
No. We have redefined what Rape, Relationships and Responsibility is for the purpose of Eradicating the Sexual Instinct. Relationships, Family and thus the Organism will be Abolished.
There will be no truth except the truth of Intersectionality.
Women now have the Sweet Intoxication of Power over Men. Always, at every moment, there will be the thrill of destroying men, the sensation of trampling on manhood that is getting cucked.
There are no coincidences, our Owners that control the Media, Academies and Intelligence Networks are well on their way to implementing the 1984 Feminist Edition blueprint.
 
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anne O'nymous

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For memory, despite what my pseudonym looks like, I'm a man, it have its importance...

No. We have redefined what Rape, Relationships and Responsibility is for the purpose of Eradicating the Sexual Instinct.
Yet, in the majority of the world, no laws have been changed or added. Therefore, there were no redefinition, just some men who discovered its real meaning, plus, obviously, the fact that women are human being and not objects.


Relationships, Family and thus the Organism will be Abolished.
No, it's the empowered vision of them that will be abolished. Those recent, in regard of history, pure abstractions that ones call relationship and family, where the male have to assert his authority over his household, are just the proof of their own fragility. A vision of relationship and family where, unable, or feeling like it, to be loved by themselves and for who they are, they feel the obligation to control their family for it to not fall apart and fly away from them.
Look how much of a man I am, I pay for your expenses. Look how much of a man I am, I keep you under my wing and control your life. Look how much of a man I am, I'll fuck you right now.
How ridiculous are this conception of manliness.
And obviously, at no time there's the, "look how much of a man I am, I respect you and let you live the life you want, hoping that you want me to be a part of it", that would prove that you're effectively a man.


There will be no truth except the truth of Intersectionality.
And so what ? Are you so uncertain of your manliness, that you fear to not be anymore recognized as a man ?


Women now have the Sweet Intoxication of Power over Men. Always, at every moment, there will be the thrill of destroying men, the sensation of trampling on manhood that is getting cucked.
Poor little insecure boy. Women take a little more control of their life, and boom, you feel endangered.

Because yes, it's a pure question of insecurity, else you would have said that our manhood is getting cut, what is the effective way to deprive a man from his male attributes, and therefore from his manliness. But no, you used "cucked", like all those insecure men who fear that their girl will find better if they start to talk to other men. You don't fear to lost your dick, you fear to be proved as "not man enough".


There are no coincidences, our Owners that control the Media, Academies and Intelligence Networks are well on their way to implementing the 1984 Feminist Edition blueprint.
By itself, this sentence say everything that need to be known regarding your view over women. They are so insignificant in your mind, that you can't even conceive that they can do this by themselves. No, it need to be an external force that do it for them.

But the funny part is how much absurdity there's behind this thought.
Women being so insignificant in your eyes, those mysterious "Owners" you obviously see them as men ; they are all mighty and control the world, they can only be men in your imagination. And it's those men, the more manly men of the world, according to your definition of manliness, that are eradicating manliness by giving the power to women...
Are you really so unable to see the inconsistency behind this thinking ?

What US president said that the only thing to fear is fear itself ? He was talking about something different, but those words were never as true as they are nowadays. You're so full of insecurities, that you fear your own shadow, and then stay in your crystal tower by fear of this fear.