The RPGM tag and how I learned to find good content

[SamtheManHamSam]

Fat clickbait right there, 'cause this is also about Ren'py content, but hell... It'll get a discussion.
Now I'm not gonna dis anyone's fetish or anything, I'm just genuinely gonna ask why people like it.
I've waded through the ocean of content on this forum and the majority is mass produced Ren'py semi-VNs that all play basically the same with pretty mediocre writing and even more RPG Maker games that are grindfests, slow, boring, badly designed and almost always the exact same with usually pretty bad Deviant Art style art going about them.

For whatever reason, there's always enthusiasm in the threads, cheering it on despite(to me at least) there not seeming to be anything of value compared to the billion other near identical RPGM and Ren'py games. Why are they so interesting to people? I'm genuinely curious.

Who knows, I might change my mind and join y'all in enjoying them, but I don't understand the appeal. And I'll be fair, I don't feel for the H-fighting games much either, they usually have some little bits of animation and a gallery if you're lucky, usually CGs that are stills, but at least it's mildly animated compared to Ren'py content that's... Usually only stills, no voice, music if you're lucky and you have to spend ages before actually getting anywhere moving through a brain pain of intuitive menus.

Why are these so popular? Folk who play this who will probably read this, gimme a discussion, I'd love to know. I kind of love this community, since the image anyone has of a "porn forum" is usually the kind of women hating, disgusting, basement dwelling pervert collection that you see on TV and such, but I've actually had some pretty wholesome and fun interactions on this forum which I probably fucked up by posting this in an attempt to get deeper into this community. But hey, it's worth a try. So please, don't take offense, this is my view on these games, but it's not a permanent opinion. I'm asking to clarify if I might misjudge these games and why I might end up enjoying them. By no means is this meant to offend or piss off anyone.

 

[J..D]

I am a person who plays these Adult Games primary for the Games part

RPGM games usually have old school RPG game play (Turn based fights, some grinding to advance, story, side quests and a original world)... And i love that.

Granted, there are some Ren'py games that have original game-play as well (Four elements trainer, something unlimited, The Twist for different examples).
But mostly they are just simple keep clicking your mouse to advance the game/story and in the end you did nothing but clicked your left mouse button on the dialogue 1000 times to progress.
Are they bad games because of that, well..yes and no.
I wouldn't call them bad...Not at all, but they aren't really games.... More like a interactive story.

A good story is a good story, doesn't matter what engine you use.
But because i love to play games i do want some gameplay and the feeling that i am actually doing something in my time and RPGM is mostly the right engine for that... I want/need the complete experience.

But i understand that most people on this site don't want to play a game and are only interested in the Adult part of it all and want to see "the good stuff" with minimal effort.

If you give 90% of the people a choice on this website between.
-A great story, great characters, great world but you have to grind levels and work for a couple hours to actually progress.
or
-A basic run of the mill incest story with copied characters where you can see all the H-scenes within a hour with minimal effort.

They will choose the second one, guaranteed.
And that's also because it's kinda a hype and popular to hate on RPGM right now , I would bet my life saving on that at least 25% of the people that hate on RPGM games didn't even tried it once.

 

[SamtheManHamSam]

I am a person who plays these Adult Games primary for the Games part

RPGM games usually have old school RPG game play (Turn based fights, some grinding to advance, story, side quests and a original world)... And i love that.

Granted, there are some Ren'py games that have original game-play as well (Four elements trainer, something unlimited, The Twist for different examples).
But mostly they are just simple keep clicking your mouse to advance the game/story and in the end you did nothing but clicked your left mouse button on the dialogue 1000 times to progress.
Are they bad games because of that, well..yes and no.
I wouldn't call them bad...Not at all, but they aren't really games.... More like a interactive story.

A good story is a good story, doesn't matter what engine you use.
But because i love to play games i do want some gameplay and the feeling that i am actually doing something in my time and RPGM is mostly the right engine for that... I want/need the complete experience.

But i understand that most people on this site don't want to play a game and are only interested in the Adult part of it all and want to see "the good stuff" with minimal effort.

If you give 90% of the people a choice on this website between.
-A great story, great characters, great world but you have to grind levels and work for a couple hours to actually progress.
or
-A basic run of the mill incest story with copied characters where you can see all the H-scenes within a hour with minimal effort.

They will choose the second one, guaranteed.
And that's also because it's kinda a hype and popular to hate on RPGM right now , I would bet my life saving on that at least 25% of the people that hate on RPGM games didn't even tried it once.

Now this point of view I can kinda get behind. It's a shame that Unity is kinda getting infested by the lot that are of the "break your left mouse button" VN "game". It's a brilliant little engine capable of easily making very good content with RPG-like structures(Illusion as of late has been using it. Koikatsu was... Alright. It's no AA2, but it shows what you can do with it for H-purposes). The thing that irks me about RPGM games is that... Well... God, it's everywhere. I played loads of games made on it back in the day and it's more often than not used by utter hacks just shitting out a quick edgy creepypasta-like game with a female protag, bad dad, bla bla dead mom bla bla prolly was dadio bla bla, you get the point. So that kinda taints my view of RPGM. It can be used for a lot of good, but it just carries a stigma and also just carries so many cash grab quick baby's first RPGM game titles made to shill. And they usually use a template they got, so there's little unique stuff to be found bar the occasional gem.

I'll be very honest, I don't fancy VNs much, but if the story is good, if it's at least done somewhat competently or fun, even in the beginning stages of production, I'll love it. @Mipmip made Bellmaster and I played the .10 from beginning to start and absolutely loved it because it's genuinely kind of fun and has so much promise. It's unrefined at the moment, it features VN-type stuff, but the way it's portrayed, the story and the characters, make it stand out from the usual RPG you'd find in Flash about 5 years ago. It's presentation that matters, so I agree with you that story is very important. You got any recoms for me to see any good RPGMs, m8?

 

[Zippity]

Fat clickbait right there, 'cause this is also about Ren'py content, but hell... It'll get a discussion.
Now I'm not gonna dis anyone's fetish or anything, I'm just genuinely gonna ask why people like it.
I've waded through the ocean of content on this forum and the majority is mass produced Ren'py semi-VNs that all play basically the same with pretty mediocre writing and even more RPG Maker games that are grindfests, slow, boring, badly designed and almost always the exact same with usually pretty bad Deviant Art style art going about them.

For whatever reason, there's always enthusiasm in the threads, cheering it on despite(to me at least) there not seeming to be anything of value compared to the billion other near identical RPGM and Ren'py games. Why are they so interesting to people? I'm genuinely curious.

Who knows, I might change my mind and join y'all in enjoying them, but I don't understand the appeal. And I'll be fair, I don't feel for the H-fighting games much either, they usually have some little bits of animation and a gallery if you're lucky, usually CGs that are stills, but at least it's mildly animated compared to Ren'py content that's... Usually only stills, no voice, music if you're lucky and you have to spend ages before actually getting anywhere moving through a brain pain of intuitive menus.

Why are these so popular? Folk who play this who will probably read this, gimme a discussion, I'd love to know. I kind of love this community, since the image anyone has of a "porn forum" is usually the kind of women hating, disgusting, basement dwelling pervert collection that you see on TV and such, but I've actually had some pretty wholesome and fun interactions on this forum which I probably fucked up by posting this in an attempt to get deeper into this community. But hey, it's worth a try. So please, don't take offense, this is my view on these games, but it's not a permanent opinion. I'm asking to clarify if I might misjudge these games and why I might end up enjoying them. By no means is this meant to offend or piss off anyone.

Everyone is different, and everyone has varying reasons they play and/or read the various style VN/Games constantly being generated and made available...

That being said, for me, I personally have a tendency to completely and utterly avoid RPG Maker designed VN/Games... When I first began giving this particular market a go, I tried all sorts of various VN/Games regardless of engine used... It was around the time when Patreon was beginning to take hold with developers in this particular market, as well as when HTML, Flash, and Text Only based VN/Games were being taken over primarily by Ren'py, RPG Maker, and very few Unity and/or Unreal Engine based VN/Games... The first few I tried were Ren'py based, and focused more on the Visual Novel aspects with a mix of good story telling, interesting plot devices, as well as visuals that I liked...

I then tried several RPG Maker based VN/Games, and found that the high use of old Nintendo style sprites and game play mechanics was more prevalent then any of the story and visual elements I had enjoyed with the Ren'py based VN/Games... Initially I tried to give RPGM a chance, but in pretty much every case, the prolonged and dumbed down game play mechanics just became tiresome, boring, tedious, and almost felt pointless many of the times... And many of them had low quality story telling, and either over the top plot devices or hollow characters... It was like mixing a child's adventure game play style (to include graphics) with a meaningless and hollow porn fest... That in many cases was unnecessarily grindy and unrewarding...

Now, I am fully aware, that there are people out there that may reminisce about games long past, and find RPGM game mechanics remind them of the gold old days... And some who were never around back then, may just like the role-playing game adventure mechanics... And the list goes on... And I don't have any qualm for those folks who enjoy extreme grind... But for me, I just don't find most RPGM based visual novels and games to be all that fun and entertaining, especially in this amateur developer market...

You see some similar issues in Ren'py based VN/Games as well... With many developers using un-original ideas, themes, and plot devices... You also see many copy cats and developers riding the coat tails of specific higher quality VN/Games... But that is inherent of the current market, with how easy it is for any Joe/Jane off the street being able to start their own VN/Game... Regardless of experience, skill, talent, etc... The draw of making a quick buck is also overwhelming and drives a lack of higher quality VN/Games across the spectrum, and not just with Ren'py and RPGM... But that is a different topic all together...

Over the last few years, I've had a tendency to gravitate more towards Ren'py based VN/Games, primarily because I want to be entertained with a good, unique, and well told story that also includes some erotic/adult visuals and events... For me it is always best when they compliment each other, rather then try to out do one another... It is that diamond in the ruff, that I typically find exists more with Ren'py based VN/Games, then any other engine I've tried...

And Ren'py is completely designed for that... Many of these other engines are not really designed around Visual Novels and Story Based Gameplay... Sure, they are being used for it, but that was usually not their original intent...

RPG Maker was designed for creating Role Playing Game style adventure games, not around Visual Novel and Story Focused mechanics... It can be used in some ways to do those things, but it isn't what it was intended to excel at...

Unity was designed for a very broad spectrum of 3D visual design, of which game design was only one of many... As it is more difficult to work with, you don't see as many Visual Novels or Story Based Games being designed with it... You are seeing a rise, but you also see a tendency for them to be a bit more focused on adventure style game play... It's less about being a Visual Novel and more about being an progression adventure and/or grinder... Where very little focus is placed on an over all story, and more on a progression play style with varying character story arcs, typically focused more on porn progression, then anything deep and/or meaningful... Same kind of goes for Unreal Engine based VN/Games, with perhaps more focus on 3D free roaming environments then what we tend to see with Unity, in this market... The Unreal Engine was really intended for 3D action and adventure style game design... So, as I tend to lean more towards story focused VN/Games, I don't really play VN/Games with Unity and Unreal engines all too often...

I don't mind the occasional low to mild grinder porn fest (regardless of engines beyond RPGM), but it depends on a lot of factors for them to keep my interest... Otherwise I tend to gravitate more towards good, fun, and unique story telling... Nothing turns me off more in a Visual Novel then poor overall story telling, unbelievable character personalities, and outrageous/over the top plot usage... I get even more annoyed when they are copy cats, and/or are just riding some other VN/Games coat tails, lacking any real originality... Same goes for overly done amounts of repetitive grind... Humans only have so much time to live, so I don't like when VN/Games unnecessarily waste too much of my time with pointless repetition... If I was immortal, then maybe it might be a different story...

Zip

 

[anne O'nymous]

I have a problem with your survey, it follow the (stupid) actual trend that everything depend of the engine. Like if someone who isn't able to write a good, or at least entertaining, story with one engine, would suddenly become the next Nobel price of literacy just because he would switch to another engine. There's good games made with RPG Maker and Ren'py, like there's shitty games made with one and the other. It don't depend of the engine, but of the author and only of him.

If people dislike RPG Maker, it's because of the too many games that are just walk simulators. But if the author were effectively good, it wouldn't be a problem. He would have added more content in his game. He would have gave us a reason to move across the map ; other that "see the next image/animation. In short, he would have made a game that worth being played despite the perhaps long walking sometimes.
And if people critic Ren'py, it's because of the too many look alike games made with it. But once again, when you put a good author behind, you've games that perhaps looks like all the others, but feel so different that you really want to play them.

Give to a good author any engine you want (and someone who know how to code for it), and you'll have a good game. And the same work for the opposite, whatever the engine you'll give him, a cheap author will never produce more than an average game.

 

[SamtheManHamSam]

I have a problem with your survey, it follow the (stupid) actual trend that everything depend of the engine. Like if someone who isn't able to write a good, or at least entertaining, story with one engine, would suddenly become the next Nobel price of literacy just because he would switch to another engine. There's good games made with RPG Maker and Ren'py, like there's shitty games made with one and the other. It don't depend of the engine, but of the author and only of him.

If people dislike RPG Maker, it's because of the too many games that are just walk simulators. But if the author were effectively good, it wouldn't be a problem. He would have added more content in his game. He would have gave us a reason to move across the map ; other that "see the next image/animation. In short, he would have made a game that worth being played despite the perhaps long walking sometimes.
And if people critic Ren'py, it's because of the too many look alike games made with it. But once again, when you put a good author behind, you've games that perhaps looks like all the others, but feel so different that you really want to play them.

Give to a good author any engine you want (and someone who know how to code for it), and you'll have a good game. And the same work for the opposite, whatever the engine you'll give him, a cheap author will never produce more than an average game.

Y'got any idea how bad RPGM is for a starter? It's like a toolbox with a bunch of shit basically pre-made for you. You can start right out of the box and everything's already there. It's like a Playmobil kit compared to actual game programming being a giant million piece Lego kit. It's not bad at all, I mean it gives a guy with poor programming skills a way to convey his story, but that doesn't change the fact that a billion money wolves are about, swamping what little you could actually do with it and turning it into even less of a valid tool. When I go about this forum, and this is why that there title is called there, I see that RPGM tag and I scroll by. 99% of the time it's a big fat chance it's just another fucking "hero in the wastes getting bitches" or "hero in medieval times getting wenches" or "hero in modern times fighting vampires" story that's basically just a rehash of everything that's come before, y'know? There's a lack of creativity and inginuity.

You can say "Ah, it's not RPGM's fault", but it's just... It's wasting away, man. It's being used for something it was never intended to be. Same as Ren'py. It's a crutch program. Ren'py is for people who can pose models and write somewhat coherent stories that can't be bothered to learn how to draw or animate. Like I mentioned before, I don't like VNs, I think they're not for me, but I get the appeal. I don't get the appeal of producing the same thing over and over with a new lick of paint.

I make music myself, not the best there is, but I don't go about making copies of other people's work. Well, for a better comparison, I don't make one mediocre song and then rerelease it with one or two chords changed, you know? Wait, hang on... That's exactly what the Chainsmokers did... Okay, never mind, I know how I'm gonna break into the industry, lads. I'll be back in about a week as a world famous musician!

No, but in all seriousness... Yes, in the right hands... I suppose RPGM can be used for something interesting. The problem is... That it's not getting in the right hands, I suppose. Or not often enough. And I can say the same for unity. Again, the Bellmaster comparison, presentation is everything. But when I download a game and I see that stock knockoff Final Fantasy 6 menu... Again and again... You just give up. Which is unfair to those who actually make good content.

I'm seeing a similar trend with Unity brewing and I hope to god it won't get this bad, because Unity is a genuine tool destined for greatness, not as much for mass produced VNs, but again... Easy access, easy to learn, easy to work with, lots of content packs out there so you don't have to be artistic to actually get your models and tools in there, it welcomes the same crowds as Ren'py and RPGM that ruined the both of those, so I genuinely fear for its life.

Anyway, that was my Ted talk, thank you for listening.

 

[Zippity]

Y'got any idea how bad RPGM is for a starter? It's like a toolbox with a bunch of shit basically pre-made for you. You can start right out of the box and everything's already there. It's like a Playmobil kit compared to actual game programming being a giant million piece Lego kit. It's not bad at all, I mean it gives a guy with poor programming skills a way to convey his story, but that doesn't change the fact that a billion money wolves are about, swamping what little you could actually do with it and turning it into even less of a valid tool. When I go about this forum, and this is why that there title is called there, I see that RPGM tag and I scroll by. 99% of the time it's a big fat chance it's just another fucking "hero in the wastes getting bitches" or "hero in medieval times getting wenches" or "hero in modern times fighting vampires" story that's basically just a rehash of everything that's come before, y'know? There's a lack of creativity and inginuity.

You can say "Ah, it's not RPGM's fault", but it's just... It's wasting away, man. It's being used for something it was never intended to be. Same as Ren'py. It's a crutch program. Ren'py is for people who can pose models and write somewhat coherent stories that can't be bothered to learn how to draw or animate. Like I mentioned before, I don't like VNs, I think they're not for me, but I get the appeal. I don't get the appeal of producing the same thing over and over with a new lick of paint.

I make music myself, not the best there is, but I don't go about making copies of other people's work. Well, for a better comparison, I don't make one mediocre song and then rerelease it with one or two chords changed, you know? Wait, hang on... That's exactly what the Chainsmokers did... Okay, never mind, I know how I'm gonna break into the industry, lads. I'll be back in about a week as a world famous musician!

No, but in all seriousness... Yes, in the right hands... I suppose RPGM can be used for something interesting. The problem is... That it's not getting in the right hands, I suppose. Or not often enough. And I can say the same for unity. Again, the Bellmaster comparison, presentation is everything. But when I download a game and I see that stock knockoff Final Fantasy 6 menu... Again and again... You just give up. Which is unfair to those who actually make good content.

I'm seeing a similar trend with Unity brewing and I hope to god it won't get this bad, because Unity is a genuine tool destined for greatness, not as much for mass produced VNs, but again... Easy access, easy to learn, easy to work with, lots of content packs out there so you don't have to be artistic to actually get your models and tools in there, it welcomes the same crowds as Ren'py and RPGM that ruined the both of those, so I genuinely fear for its life.

Anyway, that was my Ted talk, thank you for listening.

The fact that there are many copied themes, scenes, events, and so on, in this market, is nothing new... This whole niche market, started with Text Only games, and the same sorts of problems existed, just smaller in total scale... Same thing happened as the market began becoming more HTML and Flash oriented... Now in all 3 of those cases, the western market was a lot smaller then it is today... The Japanese market is where the Visual Novel boom really got it's jump start, and at it's onset was mostly only obtainable in the western market, through international purchases on CD and DVD... And many of the times it was 3rd parties that did any translating/interpreting, if that was even done at all... The internet eventually expanded those markets, over time... And it was the advent of sites like Patreon at the same time as the release of utilities like Ren'py and RPGM into the mainstream, where this market had it's biggest initial boom... A boom that has only expanded with the onset of other popular engines like Unity and Unreal Engine and so on... The boom we currently are in, really started due to sites like Patreon... Money being the key driver for the influx of newer developers... The utilities themselves just allowed for that boom to increase in scope exponentially, over time...

Really not much has altered since then, other then more strict control over allowed content on sites like Patreon... And that is because Patreon was never designed or made to deal with the sorts of content found in this niche of the porn industry... Call it piss poor planning on their part, or call it unforeseen consequences of their business model, but regardless the case, now they are playing catch up... And you really can't blame them, as they make a majority of their money from developers and creators outside this overall market... They have a reputation and standing to maintain, in order to cater to the majority of their platform users... Like any business...

Zip

 

[anne O'nymous]

There's a lack of creativity and inginuity.

The same apply for games made with Ren'py, Game Maker and Tyrano Script. It apply less often for games made Unity and Unreal, but still we have Big Brother obviously, The king of the beach, Man of the House, The Doppelganger, The Girl Next Door, and so many other VN clones games made by using Unity more or less like an interactive image book.

You can say "Ah, it's not RPGM's fault", but it's just... It's wasting away, man.

There's on the Western scene, games that are far to correspond to your description of RPG Maker games. Like by example Aylia's story, Caliross - the shapeshifter's legacy, The coceter chronicles, Futanari Quest, khendovir's chronicles - rinet's quest, and many others that prove you wrong. I don't say that they are all great games, but they are far from the boring walk simulators that some other devs gave us.
As for the Asian scene it's simple, not a single one of their game made with RPG Maker correspond to this description.

I don't get the appeal of producing the same thing over and over with a new lick of paint.

Like all those look alike horizontal scrolling games where you either make it 'til the end of the level or end hard fucked ? Or like all those look alike Lesson Of Passion games ? Perhaps that you are talking about all those, once again look alike, Flash (brothel) managing games ?
At some points, all the games are the same, it's the story that make the difference, and it happen that Visual Novels and RPG(-like) games are the two genres that let the most place to the story.

No, but in all seriousness... Yes, in the right hands... I suppose RPGM can be used for something interesting. The problem is... That it's not getting in the right hands, I suppose.

No, the problem is that you've played few games, and use them to judge all of them. There's actually 733 games made with RPG Maker, 1096 made with Ren'py. I know that at least (I haven't played them all, so I can have missed some pearl) 25% of them don't correspond to your description of RPG Maker and Ren'py games. Of course, 25% still let around 800 Ren'py games and around 550 RPG Maker games, that are what you said, but still 1 out of 4 games is enough to be more than an exception.
Which lead to what I said previously. The problem isn't and never where the engine, it's the author.

 

[SamtheManHamSam]

The same apply for games made with Ren'py, Game Maker and Tyrano Script. It apply less often for games made Unity and Unreal, but still we have Big Brother obviously, The king of the beach, Man of the House, The Doppelganger, The Girl Next Door, and so many other VN clones games made by using Unity more or less like an interactive image book.




There's on the Western scene, games that are far to correspond to your description of RPG Maker games. Like by example Aylia's story, Caliross - the shapeshifter's legacy, The coceter chronicles, Futanari Quest, khendovir's chronicles - rinet's quest, and many others that prove you wrong. I don't say that they are all great games, but they are far from the boring walk simulators that some other devs gave us.
As for the Asian scene it's simple, not a single one of their game made with RPG Maker correspond to this description.




Like all those look alike horizontal scrolling games where you either make it 'til the end of the level or end hard fucked ? Or like all those look alike Lesson Of Passion games ? Perhaps that you are talking about all those, once again look alike, Flash (brothel) managing games ?
At some points, all the games are the same, it's the story that make the difference, and it happen that Visual Novels and RPG(-like) games are the two genres that let the most place to the story.




No, the problem is that you've played few games, and use them to judge all of them. There's actually 733 games made with RPG Maker, 1096 made with Ren'py. I know that at least (I have played them all, so I can have missed some pearl) 25% of them don't correspond to your description of RPG Maker and Ren'py games. Of course, 25% still let around 800 Ren'py games and around 550 RPG Maker games, that are what you said, but still 1 out of 4 games is enough to be more than an exception.
Which lead to what I said previously. The problem isn't and never where the engine, it's the author.

Don't need to lecture me here, we grew up in the same era. I played plenty of RPGM games, I personally feel that you take this as some kind of personal attack and go into a fully defensive biased view rather than taking an actual look at the situation. Take a scroll over the forums, you see per page a billion projects tagged [abandoned] or [completed] in a terrible state and they're almost always Ren'py or RPGM. One glance over them and you'll see the repetitive, uninspired pattern you see in 99% of them. Meanwhile, you're out here cherry picking that 1% of genuinely good ones(which I did mention, mind you, several times in previous replies too, so I don't get your ranting point) to claim that the engine as a platform doesn't produce good games whilst the argument I put forth is that it does, but that it welcomes and reinforces laziness through its ease of use. It's the difference between a properly cooked meal and a cup of heat-up ramen, if you see where I'm coming from.

Now I know for a fact that I can't say shit about Ren'py to you, seeing your tags, because I don't expect you to talk shit about a platform you support yourself, but honestly... Ren'py, I've tried, a lot, but it just doesn't work for me. Again, I'm in it for an experience beyond reading a comic and wearing out my left mouse button. There's very little interaction in a lot of these Patreon circlejerked Ren'py games and I just don't get it. To quote Smash Mouth: they don't stop coming and they don't stop coming and they don't stop coming and they- Which is problematic, because it drowns out other content. Ease of access should not mean condoning laziness.

Your reply to my argument, though quoting it, completely misses my point. I think Zippity gets it, though. I think he explained it pretty well. And I agree that sidescroller H-games and VNs are equally overdone by now. So at least we've got some kind of an agreement.

 

[khumak]

The wording for the poll is a bit off for me. There's no way to know if the content of a game is any good based purely on the game engine. So the only thing we can judge without more info is the engine itself. Personally, I absolutely can't stand the RPGM engine and even the best game I would have trouble playing if it was released using that format. Ren'py works great for VNs and I like the fact that they're relatively easy to mod (and presumably also to develop for from scratch).

To expand the list a little, I think Unity works better for games with 3d characters and environments. You can do a 2D VN with it, but I think you'd be better off with Ren'py. Pretty much the same thing for the Unreal engine (3d yes, 2d no).

 

[Pilluah]

Really it varies from game to game. Engines are just premade stuff so developers don't have to start from scratch and code all the same things every time. Good engines definetly help, but mostly they just save time and don't actually mean if game is good or bad. Even when there are engine limitations developers can code something to improve the engine, it just will take a lot longer and most non-professionals and often even professionals don't have time or money to do it.

 

[anne O'nymous]

Don't need to lecture me here, we grew up in the same era.

And you want me to believe that during those forty years passed playing games, you never noticed this scheme before ? It haven't even waited for the first personal computers, each one of the early gaming consoles had their clone of pong, of an hunting game (with its fucking imprecise gun), and so on.
Once a game reached success, half of the studios were starting their own clone of it. And the same scheme continued to exist when adult games started to appear in the early 90's. It's less visible nowadays, because regular games cost a small fortune to make. Still the indie scene is saturated of clones. And so is the adult scene.
There's nothing new and it never was the fault of the engine.

Now I know for a fact that I can't say shit about Ren'py to you, seeing your tags, because I don't expect you to talk shit about a platform you support yourself,

I was one of the first here to qualify RPG Maker games as walk simulators and never hidden the fact that I dislike this engine. Still I defend it when it's accused without reason. And the opposite is also true, I pointed more than once the effective limits of Ren'py and recommend to use another engine each time what was asked was effectively beyond his capabilities.
It's not because I like or dislike an engine, that I can't be objective.

Your reply to my argument, though quoting it, completely misses my point.

Nope. I explained you that you used a too small portions of the games to effectively judge them all ; which stay right on your point.
Despite the numerous clones, you can't say that all Ren'py or RPG Maker games are all the sames. Just that like for every single things since the start of Humanity, there's in the adult game scene a lot of people that lack of imagination, while still wanting their share of the cake. And like I said in top of this comment, it have always been true for games, whatever regular or adult ones. But obviously, now that F95Zone is the biggest point for the adult scene, it's more visible. But this increase in visibility, which can eventually be part of the reason of the so many clones, doesn't mean that it's new even for this particular scene.

 

[SamtheManHamSam]

And you want me to believe that during those forty years passed playing games, you never noticed this scheme before ? It haven't even waited for the first personal computers, each one of the early gaming consoles had their clone of pong, of an hunting game (with its fucking imprecise gun), and so on.
Once a game reached success, half of the studios were starting their own clone of it. And the same scheme continued to exist when adult games started to appear in the early 90's. It's less visible nowadays, because regular games cost a small fortune to make. Still the indie scene is saturated of clones. And so is the adult scene.
There's nothing new and it never was the fault of the engine.




I was one of the first here to qualify RPG Maker games as walk simulators and never hidden the fact that I dislike this engine. Still I defend it when it's accused without reason. And the opposite is also true, I pointed more than once the effective limits of Ren'py and recommend to use another engine each time what was asked was effectively beyond his capabilities.
It's not because I like or dislike an engine, that I can't be objective.




Nope. I explained you that you used a too small portions of the games to effectively judge them all ; which stay right on your point.
Despite the numerous clones, you can't say that all Ren'py or RPG Maker games are all the sames. Just that like for every single things since the start of Humanity, there's in the adult game scene a lot of people that lack of imagination, while still wanting their share of the cake. And like I said in top of this comment, it have always been true for games, whatever regular or adult ones. But obviously, now that F95Zone is the biggest point for the adult scene, it's more visible. But this increase in visibility, which can eventually be part of the reason of the so many clones, doesn't mean that it's new even for this particular scene.

You're literally saying I'm right... But upset that we're misunderstanding one another? After I misread that we basically said the same thing... And got upset with you over saying basically the same thing. I'm really confused now.

 

[Zippity]

And you want me to believe that during those forty years passed playing games, you never noticed this scheme before ? It haven't even waited for the first personal computers, each one of the early gaming consoles had their clone of pong, of an hunting game (with its fucking imprecise gun), and so on.

I remember having an old school gaming system back in the late 70's - early 80's... It had a knob to switch to the various pong style black and white games... And had two paddles with wires going to the main game switch knob... There was even a gun that could plug into the switch for a simple skeet game... Can't remember the name of it, and couldn't find it in Google... But it had to connect to the input screws on the back of the TV via an RCA plug adapter... It was the very first game console type device our family had... A couple years later we got a Commodore-64 computer and I was a PC nerd from that day forward...

Zip

 

[anne O'nymous]

I remember having an old school gaming system back in the late 70's - early 80's...

I should still have mine somewhere... which is useless since it's years now that I don't have a compatible TV.

 

[SamtheManHamSam]

I remember having an old school gaming system back in the late 70's - early 80's... It had a knob to switch to the various pong style black and white games... And had two paddles with wires going to the main game switch knob... There was even a gun that could plug into the switch for a simple skeet game... Can't remember the name of it, and couldn't find it in Google... But it had to connect to the input screws on the back of the TV via an RCA plug adapter... It was the very first game console type device our family had... A couple years later we got a Commodore-64 computer and I was a PC nerd from that day forward...

Zip

Dude, Commodore 64 was fucking awesome. Y'all had that one bootleg of Typhoon with the bad ass intro tune?

 

[Zippity]

Dude, Commodore 64 was fucking awesome. Y'all had that one bootleg of Typhoon with the bad ass intro tune?

What was hilarious, was using the external floppy drive to play simple midi music... Like the theme to Superman, or E.T., and so on... I'm fairly sure it was not good for the hardware to be doing that for too long, but it was still fun sometimes...

I also remember when I would tell my friends and folks at school to not bother paying extra for double-sided floppy disks... Because all you needed to do was cut a notch on the opposite side of the floppy disk casing to allow writing on the other side of a one-sided floppy disk...

ZIp

 

[SamtheManHamSam]

What was hilarious, was using the external floppy drive to play simple midi music... Like the theme to Superman, or E.T., and so on... I'm fairly sure it was not good for the hardware to be doing that for too long, but it was still fun sometimes...

I also remember when I would tell my friends and folks at school to not bother paying extra for double-sided floppy disks... Because all you needed to do was cut a notch on the opposite side of the floppy disk casing to allow writing on the other side of a one-sided floppy disk...

ZIp

I actually started out making music on the Amiga. It was a huge pain in the ass, but god damn, was it fun. My old man had like... Stacks on stacks on stacks of those huge floppies, all bootlegs and cracked versions. It was a glorious collection!

 

[Zippity]

I actually started out making music on the Amiga. It was a huge pain in the ass, but god damn, was it fun. My old man had like... Stacks on stacks on stacks of those huge floppies, all bootlegs and cracked versions. It was a glorious collection!

Back the,n games were super cheap, at least for the C-64... So I purchased a majority of the cartridge, cassette, and floppy based games... You could get them at any Target, computer store, and multitude of gaming stores that used to exist... Now there are hardly any, not even in the malls that still exist... The good ole days...

Zip

 

[Nelythia]

I hate RPGM as an engine, because I hate that barely any of them offer fullscreen windowed mode. Because they offer you to save only during free-roam. Because they are in general most of the times stupid bullshit grinds with retarded fight systems that you can't win unless you min max with potions or waste your time by finding a full save with a gallery (IF the game even offers a gallery), OR waste your time by trying to cheat your characters stats. Which sometimes also doesn't work.

I get there are good RPGM games. I'm not denying that, I have my own personal favorites in the RPGM genre, but RPGM is overused and mostly by devs that are new OR in it to get money without delivering any actual sexual content, just stupid grinds.