The way of the NSFW Game Developer (?

[Asukaki]

Hi there.
From quite some time now, I have been learning (or at least trying to) all stuff related to develop NSFW games. I am relatively new to this, but for what I have been seeing (and playing) Ren'Py is like the standard, as well as the Visual Novel genre. The more "action" related games I've seen is RPGM games, or some Ren'Py with minigames and semi openworlds.

Lately I have been "investigating" how the economics work, and looks like Patreon is the way to go. But, I have a Question. What do actually NSFW devs actually do with all that money?
Some of them make more than 20k per month, and their updates sometimes are between MONTHS.
Not to throw poop on anyone here, is just that I am just curious to know, how that works.

I know they don't have to pay royalties, or licenses or fees for using their engines (besides the cost of the RPGM engine), and most of their assets are very cheap. They also don't have to pay a large studio in charge of things like VFX, cinematics, debbugin, pooling or poolish the game. So I must be missing something here.
I am sure I can do a basic VN with 0 budget, using Ren'Py and some freebies from Daz3d, But I'm not here to say that because I know what the responses would be.

Like I said, I am really curious to know, where does all that money go. I even have seen some pretty good games, with huge support (+2k per month on patreon) going abandoned. why?
Hope, someone can answer this for me, since I am relatively new to this "world", I am quite lost here.

Also, mind some advice?;
In your opinion, why do you think, genre games like FPS, TPS, Arcades, 3D RPG, platformers are basiclly not that popular in the NSFW gaming community?, Is because you need a hand to fap? or because those type of game mechanics aren't that neccesary for the stories? or just because they are actually hard to produce?.
So far I have only find ONE nsfw game that is TPS (third person shooter) called "Bunker 501" (Don't bother, is buggy and trash imho).
You see, I would like to do at least a platformer, or something basic for starters, But I do not know how welcome are those kinds of games in the adult game community. I would like to avoid wasting time on unnecessary things.

I would like to become a NSFW game developer, but, I am stuck with those two questions. I do not know which direction to take.
BTW, most games I have played, I have been found them on another "site" (Like steam but more open to indies yes even adult games developers, Idk if is allowed to put the name right away). If here are some games with those genres, tell me, I would like to try em (yes, I have used the advanced search option, with tags and all. and besides a couple of post from a year or two asking the same question, there is nothing)

 

[SonaGate]

I'm only going to say that assets aren't cheap

 

[Xanado]

If here are some games with those genres, tell me, I would like to try em (yes, I have used the advanced search option, with tags and all. and besides a couple of post from a year or two asking the same question, there is nothing)

It's probably easier to use Latest Updates and check each tag there.
ex.: https://f95zone.to/latest/#/cat=games/page=1/tags=1508/sort=likes <-- Platformer tag sorted after likes

 

[Asukaki]

I'm only going to say that assets aren't cheap

My bad, I should say they are relatively cheap, I mean, outside "premium" daz3d assets, everything is cheap. I have even seen games with anime like characters from Vroid studio (which is free) doing great on Patreon (+2k per month).
Is up to the developer (and his/her skills) to decide if going the lazy-pay-for-everything plug and play way or the blender is my best friend way.

 

[Asukaki]

It's probably easier to use Latest Updates and check each tag there.
ex.: https://f95zone.to/latest/#/cat=games/page=1/tags=1508/sort=likes <-- Platformer tag sorted after likes

Oh wow, thank you!. Looks like at least platformers are an okay thing.
and for the other genres? what you think?

 

[polywog]

several devs have mentioned destroying graphics cards, and killing laptops, but those are cheap

 

[RanliLabz]

Lots of different strokes for different folks, but a lot of players are edging throughout these games, so a one-handed approach I helpful (if not, you'll want cut scenes ) The main reason for less engines is that anything more complicated than renpy is a tough curve for the artists and writers who make the games to master.

Assets, however, are incredibly expensive - to make a game you need to build up a large asset library, and I've easily dropped 10k, not to mention another 4k for hardware upgrades. Sometimes devs are working as a team, and other contributors will need to be paid their share too. You could pirate assets for free, of course - but it would be a bit rich to expect people to pay you on patreon when you're not supporting the independent assets creators who market in Daz or Renderosity.

When it comes down to it, making these games isn't exactly a money spinner. Even before these costs, I'm barely making minimum wage considering the hours I put in, and I'm doing pretty well on Patreon. You do it because you like making the game. (and don't underestimate the time involved - it's a huge undertaking!)

I'll agree that some games like Milfy City and Summertime Saga seem to produce astoundingly little for their enormous income (why I don't support them any more). Other big-earners like Wildlife really do - and you can see just how much a game like that would cost to make.

Best of luck with your planned game

 

[DarkTl]

several devs have mentioned destroying graphics cards, and killing laptops, but those are cheap

Tbh I don't buy it. While it's not completely impossible, modern hardware has multiple failsafes and won't easily burn from a little bit of rendering. Imo, it's just a way to explain delays.

 

[polywog]

Tbh I don't buy it. While it's not completely impossible, modern hardware has multiple failsafes and won't easily burn from a little bit of rendering. Imo, it's just a way to explain delays.

It's not just an excuse, it happens. It only causes delays if you only have one. If you have a rack full of computers doing your renders, one dead GPU won't phase you. I can see devs trying to use consumer grade (geforce) cards overheating them.

 

[Corvo Bianco]

why do you think, genre games like FPS, TPS, Arcades, 3D RPG, platformers are basiclly not that popular in the NSFW gaming community?

A character model for my game costs roughly $2k to make and additional $4k to rig and animate if you convert my own time to money. Go figure.

 

[Asukaki]

Lots of different strokes for different folks, but a lot of players are edging throughout these games, so a one-handed approach I helpful (if not, you'll want cut scenes ) The main reason for less engines is that anything more complicated than renpy is a tough curve for the artists and writers who make the games to master.

Assets, however, are incredibly expensive - to make a game you need to build up a large asset library, and I've easily dropped 10k, not to mention another 4k for hardware upgrades. Sometimes devs are working as a team, and other contributors will need to be paid their share too. You could pirate assets for free, of course - but it would be a bit rich to expect people to pay you on patreon when you're not supporting the independent assets creators who market in Daz or Renderosity.

When it comes down to it, making these games isn't exactly a money spinner. Even before these costs, I'm barely making minimum wage considering the hours I put in, and I'm doing pretty well on Patreon. You do it because you like making the game. (and don't underestimate the time involved - it's a huge undertaking!)

I'll agree that some games like Milfy City and Summertime Saga seem to produce astoundingly little for their enormous income (why I don't support them any more). Other big-earners like Wildlife really do - and you can see just how much a game like that would cost to make.

Best of luck with your planned game

I see, I just wanted to know if there was something I was missing (like external fees, taxes, investment in marketing or something like that). But good to know isn't the case.


n.p.
not to hurt anybody feelings here. But that seems to be the problem; there is a world of cool tools to render things outside Daz3d.

I do not mind Daz models, they look great and sexy (when the dev actually knows a little bit of daz and not just the default presets that comes when buying models).
but the problem with it, is that alot of so called game devs, are jumping into it, wasting and wasting valuable resources (money, time, and equipment) in things that can be reproduced in some degree and in less time with others tools.
There is no point arguing how expensive are those assets (and by assets I mean all 3d meshes that composes scenes in most of games here), when most of them are bought in Daz studio market or something alike.

When it comes to 2d own art, in those cases, I don't even dare to throw a gram of poop to the devs because, they are doing something I do not have clue to do (Drawing art) but still some of these games are inconsist with their art, not the case with Summer time saga (well, a little bit of inconsistency but damn i like that game).

My point is, assets are relatively cheap (Free if you know how to model things), ever hear of turbosquid? CGtrader? (Just to mention a few) those sites even have FREE CC0 (Public domain license) assets that can be used for games right away (some others need just a little bit of "correction" in maya or blender). I consider that thinking outside the box, would bring more variety of scenarios for the games helping them to write better stories (and not the limited ones just because you don't have X or Y asset to make X or Y scenario), ending that repetitive and annoying factor of literally having the same model in different games (We all know that park scenario seen in many different games).

as for the renders, lets be honest, Daz studio sometimes is too much to most of the devs. some of them don't even know how to set up lights, which is a little bit underwhelming. sometimes I would like to tell to those devs "hey, you aren't rendering a pixar movie, chill".
Great results can be done in hours or days instead of weeks, in Unreal Engine, Unity HDRP or Even better, Blender's new Eevee real time renderer (Edit: all those are real time renderers, meaning great results in seconds).

but like I said, that seems to be the problem, alot of so called devs, are jumping into daz3d, without having a clue of how to model a chair or how to set up an indoor scene. Resulting in a huge (and unnecesary) waste of resources.

(I actually just saw a post about this, It was very informative reading it, now I better understand the waste of resources in many of those cases. I thought it was other things such as fees or external taxes for developing such activities. but I am glad to know it's not the case. Well, actually I am not that glad, is a little bit underwhelming seeing how alot of great games with potential, end up abandoned due to the devs lack of information about this; there is a world outside Daz3d, would be cool if more developers realized this **sad fap noises**)

Edit: I just think, even if the devs are after realism, they can rent a render farm. but like I said, lack of knowledge ): I mean, is okay if the dev is new to this world and doesn't know, but cmooon, when the guy/girl does more than 20k per month? really?... ): ): ):

 

[Asukaki]

A character model for my game costs roughly $2k to make and additional $4k to rig and animate if you convert my own time to money. Go figure.

What? why? that is alot.
Can I see the model?

 

[Deleted member 78983]

Well yeah you can make NSFW games for free. But the thing is they cost time for the developer they wont get back. I think it's only fair that they get some compensation for their work which we are enjoying for FREE on this site.

 

[Asukaki]

Well yeah you can make NSFW games for free. But the thing is they cost time for the developer they wont get back. I think it's only fair that they get some compensation for their work which we are enjoying for FREE on this site.

You are missing my point, I guess.
Not that I want games for free, but just asking where does all that money, some of them make, go. you know, just for being curious and wanting to know if there is any other factor to be aware of before even starting to make a game.
It catched my attention seeing some of them making more than 20k per month while dropping updates between MONTHS.
If you ask me, that is alot of time for the conent in each update, so I thought I was missing some external factor but no, is just a poorly workflow or lack of knowledge (in most cases).

 

[khumak]

A character model for my game costs roughly $2k to make and additional $4k to rig and animate if you convert my own time to money. Go figure.

Yeah time is money. I've put hundreds of hours of time into my mod and I don't get a penny for it. Making a full game would take even more time.

As far as asset costs, if I'm just messing around with stuff or modding I don't feel guilty using pirated assets but for anything I was going to put in a game that I was actually being paid for I would go buy legit copies of all of the assets even if I already had pirated versions of them. Same mindset I had for pirating games when I was poor. If I really liked it I went and bought it even though I already had a free copy.

Also initially every dev's Patreon income is $0. It may or may not ramp up quickly depending on how good their game is or marketing or whatever but if they're actually buying all of the assets they're using then they're either going out of pocket for thousands of dollars of assets before they make a penny on the game or they might cheat and buy legit copies of their pirated assets gradually out of whatever Patreon money comes in. At the very least that's going to eat up all of their Patreon income for months so they're working for less than minimum wage and initially they're probably effectively making a negative wage.

For every top tier Patreon dev making $10k+ per month there are dozens or maybe hundreds of devs making less than $1k per month. You just don't hear much about them when they try for awhile and decide it's not worth it and give up. It would be nice if there was a more visible place for devs to put their adult games because I think there's a pretty big potential market for them that is still mostly untapped. Look how big the porn industry is, IMO the adult games "industry" could be similar in size if it had a place to grow.

If volume was higher people could charge less for the games and still make good money. Personally, I think the best chance we have for that would be if Steam allows the adult game niche to grow on their platform and doesn't bow to social pressure to stomp it out. They're not going to promote it but that's a platform with a LOT of gamer eyeballs, some of which probably appreciate a naughty diversion once in awhile.

 

[Asukaki]

Yeah time is money. I've put hundreds of hours of time into my mod and I don't get a penny for it. Making a full game would take even more time.

As far as asset costs, if I'm just messing around with stuff or modding I don't feel guilty using pirated assets but for anything I was going to put in a game that I was actually being paid for I would go buy legit copies of all of the assets even if I already had pirated versions of them. Same mindset I had for pirating games when I was poor. If I really liked it I went and bought it even though I already had a free copy.

Also initially every dev's Patreon income is $0. It may or may not ramp up quickly depending on how good their game is or marketing or whatever but if they're actually buying all of the assets they're using then they're either going out of pocket for thousands of dollars of assets before they make a penny on the game or they might cheat and buy legit copies of their pirated assets gradually out of whatever Patreon money comes in. At the very least that's going to eat up all of their Patreon income for months so they're working for less than minimum wage and initially they're probably effectively making a negative wage.

For every top tier Patreon dev making $10k+ per month there are dozens or maybe hundreds of devs making less than $1k per month. You just don't hear much about them when they try for awhile and decide it's not worth it and give up. It would be nice if there was a more visible place for devs to put their adult games because I think there's a pretty big potential market for them that is still mostly untapped. Look how big the porn industry is, IMO the adult games "industry" could be similar in size if it had a place to grow.

If volume was higher people could charge less for the games and still make good money. Personally, I think the best chance we have for that would be if Steam allows the adult game niche to grow on their platform and doesn't bow to social pressure to stomp it out. They're not going to promote it but that's a platform with a LOT of gamer eyeballs, some of which probably appreciate a naughty diversion once in awhile.

To be honest, I never though on how most of the devs started. It makes alot of sense if they are just paying for all those assets they pirated to kick off their game.
But again, first off why doing something ilegal and wrong that is outside of your league, when there is literally a free version of what you are aiming at?
I mean, there is no need to pirate daz3d assets when you have mixamo, makehuman, Manuelbastioni lab, vroid studio, and much more to start making a game. Sure it would be tricky to reach the goal you have in mind (even more if the dev doesn't know how to sclupt, model or retopologize) but at the end that will pay off more than pirating things.
But the lack of knowledge is huge :| I mean is okay if the newbie devs don't know NOTHING when it comes to 3d. But when the dev is making more than 5k per month and is going for his/her 3rd abandoned game... meh... idk.

I agree that the adult video game industry has great potential, but I consider that a lot of developer practices must be changed. It would be appropriate if more tools were available to the public for their knowledge (such as the tools just mentioned).
And btw, GameJolt ( I said it, hope I don't get ban) has a big community of NSFW game devs. That is how I endd up here, most of the games here, are posted there as well. Although I think this is more of a pirate site. hmm I didn't notice.

 

[Synx]

What? why? that is alot.
Can I see the model?

Its the time he spend on his model multiplied by an hourly salary. That's not how much a model would cost. A professional 3D-moddeler would most likely charge a couple hundred for a human model, completely textured rigged, and animated ready.

Anyway for a lot of the higher earning devs creating their game is their job. They need to live from it. If you would convert their income to an hourly wage, how much they earn an hour isn't that impressive. Like 5000 dollar a month, with lets say 50 hours spend on their game weekly (which is on the low side If some of the posts on here are true), gives an hourly wage of somewhere around 25 dollars. That's nothing spectacular. And thats even without subtracting any costs for models, software licenses, hardware, Patreon's cut, Paypals cut, etc. from their income.

Yeah you can cut down costs by using free software and models, but that really won't cut it nowadays. As a new dev you got to stand out from the masses. Using the same models as 90% of the adult games isn't enough. Some of the higher earning devs can get away with it as they already got a large fanbase build up from the time they didn't really had any competition, but from a starting dev? You aren't going to succeed.

And making your own models is for the majority of the people not an option. Just learning 3D modeling, texturing, rigging, and animating can already take months, if not years. And even then it still takes ages to create a whole world, and a whole bunch of characters from scratch.

That said there are for sure some high earning devs that are milking their patreon supporters. Especially Summer time saga is lately known for that. 4+ months for an update that has barely 15 mins of game play, created by a whole team is just laughable.

But the lack of knowledge is huge :| I mean is okay if the devs don't know NOTHING when it comes to 3d. But when the dev is making more than 5k per month and is going for his/her 3rd abandoned game... meh... idk.

Most devs that abonden their game when they earn a decent amount from it, is because of the community. They criticism him for everything they do, nag that he isnt working fast enough, or that his last update was crap, etc. People just get fed up with it and quit. Some start over with a new game later on, but the majority don't. (and the worst part is that its not their Patreons but people that play it for free that nag the most).

 

[HopesGaming]

Where the money is going? That is an odd thing to ask.
It doesn't matter if the assets are expensive or if they are pirated.
Patreon is NOT kickstarter. Patreon is a way for people saying 'thanks' or 'keep doing what you are doing' kind of things. There are of course tiers and a few other reasons but that is basically it.
So, the money is like a thank you har for a dev in which the dev hopes it gets big enough to become a salary. And you are basically asking what they are doing with their salary.

Secondly, it is a VERY demanding 'hobby'. You're asking why someone who makes 2k can abandon his game? Because in most modern countries 2k is way below the minimum wage yet with 2k (which is only a few that get so high) it means you got a big following. Which in turn means a lot of demands, pressure, rage, negativity and so on.
So someone who went into this with high dreams suddenly realizing you are basically getting minimum wage, have to work MORE than a real-life work plus having your own real-life work to focus on and other obligations- will buckle under the pressure and abandon the meager 2k and go back to focus on his real-life work.
It has been seen many times now.

About your view on assets. You are simply being a bit naive and perhaps a tad arrogant.
First of all, no one can simply learn to sculpt, model and all those things. It takes a lot of time. And not everyone going to study several months (or even years) before they start on a journey that has less than 1% chance to become something big.
And what about when you get lucky and make the big bucks? Why not learn then? Because with big bucks comes a huge playerbase and a huge following. You won't have time to do stuff like that. EVEN if you already know how to make all those things from scratch it is not something you will do as it is time-consuming and it is better to get a ready-made object.
Sure spend a few days to make a tv. I will just buy the asset.

I feel like most of the things being told will simply be ignored.
A lot of new devs (hell, probably 99% of new devs) get into this business because they see it from the outside and think to themselves- "Damn, I can do that 100% better", "Why is he doing it like that?", "If he just did that or this.", "I would never do that or this.", and so on.
Reality will hit once you start your journey.
I wish you luck.

 

[Asukaki]

Its the time he spend on his model multiplied by an hourly salary. That's not how much a model would cost. A professional 3D-moddeler would most likely charge a couple hundred for a human model, completely textured rigged, and animated ready.

Anyway for a lot of the higher earning devs creating their game is their job. They need to live from it. If you would convert their income to an hourly wage, how much they earn an hour isn't that impressive. Like 5000 dollar a month, with lets say 50 hours spend on their game weekly (which is on the low side If some of the posts on here are true), gives an hourly wage of somewhere around 25 dollars. That's nothing spectacular. And thats even without subtracting any costs for models, software licenses, hardware, Patreon's cut, Paypals cut, etc. from their income.

Yeah you can cut down costs by using free software and models, but that really won't cut it nowadays. As a new dev you got to stand out from the masses. Using the same models as 90% of the adult games isn't enough. Some of the higher earning devs can get away with it as they already got a large fanbase build up from the time they didn't really had any competition, but from a starting dev? You aren't going to succeed.

And making your own models is for the majority of the people not an option. Just learning 3D modeling, texturing, rigging, and animating can already take months, if not years. And even then it still takes ages to create a whole world, and a whole bunch of characters from scratch.

That said there are for sure some high earning devs that are milking their patreon supporters. Especially Summer time saga is lately known for that. 4+ months for an update that has barely 15 mins of game play, created by a whole team is just laughable.



Most devs that abonden their game when they earn a decent amount from it, is because of the community. They criticism him for everything they do, nag that he isnt working fast enough, or that his last update was crap, etc. People just get fed up with it and quit. Some start over with a new game later on, but the majority don't. (and the worst part is that its not their Patreons but people that play it for free that nag the most).

Oooh, you right, I though he did buy the character at that cost.
I would have just sculpted one and used rigify (blender) to make a quick Unity compatible rig (there are tons and tons of mocap animations for free out there, so animations meh, don't bother). Retopologize if need. I have been using this workflow for quite some time now, For prototyping only of course.

As for the

... That's nothing spectacular. And thats even without subtracting any costs for models, software licenses, hardware, Patreon's cut, Paypals cut, etc. from their income...

hmm, Idk, for patreon and Paypal cuts, yea for sure. but licenses in the software commonly used, assets are one time pay. They only need to purcharse the model (more like the proxy and morph targets) just once. not to mention Daz3d is free, and you can create models from the get go, so...

Yeah you can cut down costs by using free software and models, but that really won't cut it nowadays. As a new dev you got to stand out from the masses. Using the same models as 90% of the adult games isn't enough. Some of the higher earning devs can get away with it as they already got a large fanbase build up from the time they didn't really had any competition, but from a starting dev? You aren't going to succeed.

Is not the software, but the potential it gives you to create things.
Is just dumb to want a software make things as you have in your mind, from the get go. Using freebies is not meant to use them "as it is" in a "ready to sell" production. but as a solid start. which is why most new devs fail, daz3d has potential, yes it does, but is alot missused as a "plug and play" thing, which lead to the repetitive factor. wait, i just realized; maybe that is why people (new devs) don't use freebies. I mean, Makehuman, MB Lab, VRoid Studio models, came without genitalia, so, no easy naughty scenes for the new ones. hmm. I think it makes no sense to argue about it. Both sides have dead ends. FeelsBadman

 

[DoomedForever]

I'm dropping in my personal experience as a newbie, not yet dev: I'm a decent writer with a lot of ideas in mind. I've written a couple short stories in the past but the time I tried to write a full on book, long story short, I gave up after a bit because I wasn't really feeling the "novel" medium (I'm more of comic book guy: a picture is worth a thousand words).

After playing a lot of the games around here and looking into how they were made, I finally decided to bite the bullet and I feel like I've found an interesting way to "give life" to my stories (I suck at drawing). I have 0 experience with modelling and image editing and am a broke ass college student, so yeah, I'm working with Daz 3d, pirated assets, GIMP and Ren'py since they have the friendliest learning curve for someone like me. Having to focus on college, I don't think I can afford the time to learn how to make everything from scratch. However, what I think I can do, and what I've been doing for a month since I've started is learn the ins and outs of Daz Studio and how to tweak and combine different assets and morphs to create unique characters and poses so as to not become another copycat with "Max from Big Brother" as protag and the daughter from DMD but with different makeup and height.

I already have a pretty solid storyline and characters planned out, their archetypes and traits, etc., so all I need is some time to slowly implement them into renders and a game. Time that would probably double or triple if I had to learn how to sculpt and model from scratch all while taking Engineering.

I'll see where this takes me and I don't plan on monetizing it if I ever release it, because I don't think it would be fair on the asset creators I pirated from. Yes I'm still diverting my time to it and time is money, but I'm loving working on this so I don't think I'll regret taking on this endeavour as long as I don't overwork myself on it. I'm treating it as a passion project. Most new devs may have something different in mind, though. Either looking to make a quick buck or in it for the long haul, the reality is a lot of people don't have the time and/or the money to do everything themselves out of nothing. Some go full on "rip-off, no effort" mode, others strike a good balance between using something made by someone else and giving it their own flavour.