Yeah. The main criticism against Lily is "TypICaL TsUNdErE giRL" but this is the most basic and easiest introspection of her character that doesn't really consider anything else about her. In addition to what you've mentioned, Lily is easily the most unique and relatable character in the game so far. She has motives and desires that contrast the other wardens while being similar enough to those of Ethan's, with his goal being to rescue his abducted dojo members, and escape. All the other wardens are more or less too similar. At that point, it's just down to whoever appeals to the fetishist the most.
Unlike the other, older wardens who have likely had plenty of boy toys prior to Ethan's arrival, where their treatment of Ethan and males in general is indicative of being in a position of power for years, Lily actually seems to want Ethan and doesn't just view him as another toy to conquer and break. Such as her direct competition with Cobra for claiming Ethan. Lily probably gets to experience the thrills of her dominance for what I am assuming is the very first time outside of any fantasies she may have had. Ethan would probably have been her first major triumph and his defeat the proof to her becoming more powerful. The other wardens are boringly well established already. If I remember correctly, she apparently comes from a dojo which dismissed her capabilities due to her being female. She's experienced sexism and was basically made to feel she was not equivalent to that of her male peers. Yes, Lily defeating Ethan, as well as her brother, rightfully makes her cockier and gives her an ego where maybe she starts to feel that particular sect of society has held her back because she, as a female, is just inherently better. It's a femdom game so women generally do outmatch the men.
Nobody realistically wants to be held back because of who they are, because of something they cannot help. So I think her desperation to prove herself is understandable, and relatable. We get to observe an actual change in Lily over time, whereas all the other wardens are introduced as brutal sadists who only really view Ethan as an unbroken slave, where it's their duty to ensure he is compliant. Like it's just another day on the job for them. Lily's circumstance is entirely different and this alone would cause her to view Ethan in a different way, as she isn't just another warden. I think Lily and Ethan could actually have a relationship that isn't just mistress and slave.
For myself, it feels like many of the wardens have already reached their potential with the exception of Yvonne who is able to learn new abilities, if my memory serves correct. This creates the idea that since the other wardens aren't really gaining any power, they are either letting Ethan win or Ethan is actually stronger than they are and has yet to meet his equal. Lily has the potential to be that person with how young she still is, and her motivations to become even better. That and Ves since Ves apparently surpassed Swan, so Lily can also surpass those other wardens who may currently be a challenge to her.
As for Ves eclipsing Lily, Ves is great because she's not another BBW or "auntie" but I feel it was rushed. She was charmed too easily by the influence of the tower, but if she came from a similar situation as Lily did where the males also looked down on her then maybe it's more understandable she'd be so tempted by the power exchange. But, Lily still has her convictions as of F7 and I can respect that. I can see Ves eventually claiming all of her dojo members as slaves using Swan's techniques, though, but in my headcanon, Ethan belongs to Lily.
Ngl, you summed up now why i like Lily.
Also have being playing the game for a while and while im still not into the femdom, the game combat is at least not mindless which i enjoy.
And regarding your comment of Lily, first (at least what i understood from the dialouge, i can be wrong. It was 2 am and that part was hazy.) she assumed she was being relegated cuz she was a woman cuz his brother gave Ethan the water book spell thing. While she thinks its absurd, you know, giving the guy outside the cage a means to defend himself to free you is a smart idea. Idk if there was sexism on the plot tho, really hazy for me (please correct me if im wrong tho).
As for Lily as a character, i agree a lot, she is really just a troubled young adult who never had any form of recognition or way to proof herself. While she is fucking crazy and her views are obviously warped by the power of the tower and her wicked sense that cuz she was able to beat her already level drained colleagues, i agree that they didnt let her be her best self. That helped her pretty much "indirectly" join the cause of the Tower. But i like how she actually talks and engages with Ethan and doesnt treat him as a "thing", but more like a rival.
Lily IS Ethan´s real rival.
I see what you're saying but to play devils advocate, I do think they genuinely lose in the moment when Ethan defeats them in combat. Them getting EX modes is them just leveling up and becoming stronger, no different than what Ethan does when you gain EXP (ignoring the choice to completely submit after losing). No matter how many times Ethan gets his ass kicked, eventually (even if slowly) he racks up enough EXP to where he's strong enough to overwhelm the wardens if he actually truly wanted to.
This is probably why they just let you proceed when you defeat them. They probably just don't get paid well enough to truly give a fuck about dealing with a combative outlier that subconsciously gets stronger and stronger and would rather just let the next stronger warden attempt to deal with him.
It's important not to forget that Ethan is actually strong, and proves he can actually grow to be enough of a competitive threat in combat when you make the appropriate decisions. The blue fire Ethan busts out against Karen in a true and genuine effort not to lose and be able to finally put up a fight is a perfect example. Another example is Ethan has the ability to counter or evade against any grapple when the player actually allows him to make the effort to.
Ngl, i agree with you here. Ethan really is strong on the game. And even if not at least physically strong (which becomes a none issue if he "trains" with the wardens), he is very much mentally strong. If he strong enough to endure the torture he is in, get over his horniness for the sake of his ppl and dojo and after all that, beat the wardens after being dragged to the mud like a blanket, he really does have a lot of inner strength.
I do agree that Ethan is strong. Despite having a weakness for foot submission and being a puppy, he is a good protagonist. Tower of Trample is a game that really displays how the traits that make a good hero can be the same ones that make for a good submissive. This is why I don't want to see Ethan get his voice removed.
As for the wardens going easy on him, I think of it as more like they are bored. They already completed their mission and are waiting for their transport back to wherever they are taking their captives to. In some ways Ethan is like Goku in that he is strong, has a positive disposition, is willing to face imposssible odds, and comes back stronger every time he gets his butt kicked. In a sense Ethan's submission is his true power in that it helps fuel his devotion to his Dojo, gives his greater pain tolerance, increases is adrenaline and helps purge his fear of losing a fight. All of that said however, this only works because the girls underestimate him and allow him to keep on trying until he can win.
I also agree, whether he became or was a foot submissive fetishist or into pet play before, at the very least (unless you decide as a player to give up) he does keep his own ideals and goal in mind on all times. Heck, i read on a post here before that the user in question pretty much forgot about the reason why Ethan was even braving the tower. That should tell a lot of Ethan to still being focused on his goal.
You worded it perfectly. Ethan losing his voice worries me because it in turn will make the lore weaker, thus removing the overall impact of submission. Submitting to a warden meant abandoning the dojo, your mates, Rose, etc which Ethan constantly reinforced. And it made it hotter. Now if Ethan is just going to be player insert, it won't feel the same. I personally only gave a fuck about Ethan's original mission whenever Ethan reminded me of it through either internal or external dialogue, just before I was about to give into an impulsive decision. And it always made me think "damn, I feel bad." or "damn, this game is actually good in terms of continuity and character development." Now I don't have nearly as much incentive to actually try not to lose or submit.
As corny as it may sound, I'd argue that Ethan is what makes this game so good (aside from the wardens individually) because he made both submission and victory feel tailor fitted (like it actually mattered). It's why it seems so unanimous that nobody except Koda wants to get rid of it. TOT is so popular compared to Bo's other side games because the MC isn't just a cheap self insert to cheat your way out of working as hard to make something of quality. They may disagree now, but look at how that plan is backfiring.
But as per usual with many games, the devs mindset and echo chambers are fuck listening, and fuck what the players want.
First, Ethan had a voice?
Second, i agree with basically Ethan submitting to a Warden meant he was abandoning his goal. It really puts into perspective how he fell if he (or more akin, you as a player) submits himself to a Warden. It had an impact cuz you could undertstand his goal and why it meant a lot to him.
Third, i personally didnt find submitting to the wardens with all that context into mind hot. But its a femdom game so i shouldnt be complaining (sorry if i sound like im complaining tho)
Fourth, i also agree, Ethan story as a whole is the sole (pun intended) reason im keeping playing the game (minus the feet of the wardens ofc, not into the femdom tbh), he has charm, was wits and overall is a good character cuz he actually feels like a person.
Also as a tangent, playing this game in a semi purity run (as in, not giving in to any of the wardens sucks. Specially since the game is not finished).
