Want to know your opinion

darkschneider

New Member
Nov 28, 2017
8
0
Hello Everybody!

I want your opinion, let me explain

First i want to let be clear that i'm not a developer and i don't know how to code, but i'm trying to develop a game.I'm inspired in games such: Whoremaster, Simbrothel, Pytfall, FreeCities, Lilith's throne, Fantasy Slave Trainer, Slave Maker, Strive for power, etc.

So i started and get something done, i put in you can check.

I wanted to include:
- Story line (maybe in a Ren'py way)
- Map Exploration (like in a RPG Maker way)
- Combat (like in a M.U.G.E.N way)
- And many more stuff

I try use some engines i don't have any success when i try to include some stuff not standard for the engine, so i go for HTML + CSS + Javascript.

I'll continue develop this game, but this is a terrible way? any criticism, opinion and suggestion?

Thanks.
 

Saki_Sliz

Well-Known Member
May 3, 2018
1,403
1,005
I mean I have tried HTML and Javascript, and looked into CSS, but unless you are using tools that make the game for you in html I would avoid this path, just because, at least with my experience, you are pretty much creating an engine itself which has a lot of technical aspects that must be dealt with on its own. If you are fine with beating your head against a brick wall as the way to learn code, trying to do it the hardest way possible, then continue as you are.

It depends on how much time you want to invest in making this or any other possible game idea in the future. The more time and energy you are willing to invest, the more you can control exactly what you want the game to be. If you don't have too much time and energy to learn, tools such as rpgmaker, twine with sugarcube plugin, or game maker (once a classic, now is pretty commercialized). These let you make games without having to code. Now the issue is the non standard stuff, because you can't fit that in these too well without having to get to coding. Renpy and Unity I would say would be your best bet if you want to learn to code. The issue is that you can't just jump in, everything is a blank canvas so there are no easy steps, so you need prior experience to be able to figure out how to create the things you want. IE i think originally renpy was more of a visual novel game, but by abusing the power of various systems and techniques, there were able to build a renpy game mechanism that wasn't originally designed to be part of renpy (such as maps). But there are tutorials. Unity, however, is a much more professionally oriented system. By professional, I mean, because it wasn't designed with anything in mind, it is more open ended, so its more like sitting in the middle of a lake with no shore in site, not really sure where to go or what to do or how to get anywhere. unity has one of the larger online communities which you can learn from, out of just about any software that would be used by most of the indie community, but not to say it is perfect for new users who are not yet mentally ready to handle technical oriented problem-solving.

A lot of the time coding is 4 parts: figuring out how to solve a particular problem with the coding knowledge you have (hence why prior knowledge helps), writing out the code itself, debugging the code to work, and in many cases modifying the code so that it works with all your other code (because it is hard to test things all together at first).

If you really want to get into the knowledge of coding and learning basic skills so that you can make some basic games, and work your way up to game engine logic eventually, but still be able to play with making a game fairly easily, I recommend looking up Processing dot org. It is a type of programming environment. it is similar to Java, but was designed for artist (not programmers) to create art with code. It basically removes all the technical parts of the code needed to make the graphics, but it is not as nearly as bloated with features like unity would be. I often used it to prototype game ideas to robot simulations years ago. The nice thing is that there are tons of tutorials to walk you through core ideas, from making buttons, drawing sprites, to the introduction of object-oriented programming, which is what just about every game system uses.

Java, C++, C#(unity), Python (renpy), and many more, are object-oriented programming language, and once you learn the idea of one language, you pretty much can code in the other languages as well. I would say C# is the most powerful one. With the processing thing I mentioned, it would not have game engine code itself, so you would have to experiment with code and understanding game logic an creating it yourself. Not too different from your HTML and Java stuff, but should be less technicall with the processing api in place. I use monogame engine, it is just a set of code that makes it easy to draw to the screen, and has a basic data managment system and game logic system, all in C#, but nothing else, using one's understanding of game logic and making systems, that is where one needs to start to eventually put a game together. not too different from renpy and unity which would be considered easier, but unity tends to be bloated and overwhelming for new users and renpy is half well documented and half still being explored and documented (such as the map idea, I don't know how well coding ideas have been shared online for that).

You could maybe search for a summary, but if you want I could give you a brief run through of key ideas and the concept of some code and game logic ideas, and tell you to run, but a lot of it will be coming down to, as you get experienced, you recognize particual problems or tasks that need to be done, know what kind of task it is and what kind of trick you need to use to solve it with code, and that kind of knowledge comes with experience. In the end it is all a matter of experience.

I do find that picking a project and beating your head against a wall, googling each step and issue along the way is the best way to learn, but don't expect this to get done in the next 3 to 8 years.

on a side note, I am working on a new way of programming. Rather than make code, you describe your idea, and it generate the code for you, but I am not even at a working prototype yet.
 

darkschneider

New Member
Nov 28, 2017
8
0
Thanks for the replay Saki_Sliz.

I tried learn how to code, but not very successful, every time bump in some API or library i get stucked, in javascript i could learn something that's why i choose to do this way. I don't trying to create an engine, just very basic stuff to get the game done, as far i know every engine i try, is very complex for me.

I download and i'll try the Processing sutff that you mentioned. I tried RenPy but work with the user interface i find very hard, for example get strings from file or array and put in a list on screen, i think this is very basic stuff but not for me. I tried RPG Maker, could only what the engine allowed visually (and events). I'll try twine and game maker thanks.

Thanks for the tip, theses steps give me some ideas in how aproach.

After try the Processing dor org i'll try this monogame IDE, as far i understood will help draw, so maybe i can work with that.

Thanks for the offer, i'll try and send some specific question.

I'm trying learn how to code for years now, i don't expect to do very quickly ;). When i used linux tclsh was easy for me i could do some cool stuff.

There is any website that i could follow the news on your project?
 

caLTD

Member
Game Developer
Feb 4, 2018
184
165
Using HTML,CSS and JAvascript most basic and easy way to entering programming. Also there where javascript libs for 2.5d games. You can easyl create rpgm like games. Or renpy like games.

And if your native language is english and you can't code lets say after 2 (serious dedication with 4 hours per day to try build something) months, stay away. This thing does not sound to you.


HTML and CSS very robust to build interfaces.

HOWEVER

Game programming is hard and you have to try hard. Most programming practices are waiting user input do something other practices was service programming like daemons etc. Thing goes by himselfs no user interference.

Game programming was mix bag of those two. Also game loop have to have act by himself other than user input. this was the hard part. Not the programming, grasping the concept.

When you deal with this. You can deal everything.
 

darkschneider

New Member
Nov 28, 2017
8
0
Thanks for the reply caLTD.

English isn't my native language but i can work at this level.

With HTML+CSS+JS i find it's the only way that i could do something. I check some frameworks and engines developed for HTML+CSS+JS but theses slow me more than try the hard way, i'm not a programmer so i think it's normal take me longer to do it. I already try learn many times how to code, i can do with Assembly in microcontrollers like PIC and Arduino, some times C for theses platforms, but in PC i always get stucked in the graphic interface.

Thanks for the tip, theses ideas of game loop and daemons i see in the Processing dot org that Saki_Sliz mentioned, i was trying but now i'm getting an hardware error, i'm trying to fix it. Does not seem like much but these tips are helping me a lot.

While i don't learn properly, i'll still trying in this HTML+CSS+JS, it's working so far but i wan't to integrate theses ideas into it.
 

caLTD

Member
Game Developer
Feb 4, 2018
184
165
if you can edit address space one by one with assembler, you can do it everything javascript in not time. Because you did not need managing address or describe variables etc. Everything done by garbage collector. Arduino and Javascript come from c syntax and javascript bit complicated language but you dont need that complicated side.
check this out


and


Html is noting more than taggin. Its simple however creating intefaces look like old school telephone wiring. Same thing bu too many of them.

Css is cust painting them with rules.

And you dont need anything other than web browser and a text editor to use them.
 

darkschneider

New Member
Nov 28, 2017
8
0
In the logic side yeah, i can do it, but my biggest problem is with user interface, graphics and API.

I'll check some of theses engines, but still when use library get pretty complicated in my head. Probably because i need more practice.

Yeah theses tips make me think in this with other perspective, work with html, css and js independently and later integrate them.

I think after i understand some basic principles that i can move to some engine.
 

caLTD

Member
Game Developer
Feb 4, 2018
184
165
User interface is already there. You put for example bootstrap 4 your project you got everything. I mean everything.

I spend maybe months to get understand unity ui. IF unity supports html like Qt5 I done same thing probably in a day.

Just html, jquery, bootstrap 4, some custom coding for saving states. Probably using client storage for saving games. Volia you got RENPY.
 

darkschneider

New Member
Nov 28, 2017
8
0
Thanks for the tip caLTD, for sure i'll check it out, i rewrote all my work with the previous tip and could put all 3 in 1 html file, 3 in 1 css file, java i put in more than one because i think get more organized.

I'll take slow, rewrite with jquery is the next step and after that i'll add bootstrap (rewriting all). After all, i'm still learning.
 

caLTD

Member
Game Developer
Feb 4, 2018
184
165


go get this.

This was include everything. You may go after bootstrap4 based free templates. There where tons of them. When you run the demo your.

What they not include. ?

Javascript dialogue system.
You upload your renders to some directory. then you create a javascript program which displays text and corresponding image. Probably thee where already ton of it, I did not research and why not.

A state system. probably a town map.
 

darkschneider

New Member
Nov 28, 2017
8
0
Thanks caLTD, but i think this is very complex for my knowledge, nodejs doesn't run on server side? i don't understand exactly how theses things works yet. npm isn't for instalation in linux?

The town map i'm doing like Renpy, an image map, there is a tool online to get the coordinates. I can change the image map with javascript with document.getElementbyID. Now i get theses maps and put into a variable, i can get the img source and change with javascript too.

The dialog system that i was trying with a modal and with mouseevent click change it, but i'm still working on that. And of course get the dialog from a variable in a javascript file, pretty much like Renpy.

I'm still missing the choices like a button in the center of the screen.

I think theses basic functions of a visual novel i'll get soon.

The problem that i'm having is get all images from the directory like a dir command, what i search that is not possible because javascript doesn't allow this, more specific chrome doesn't allow HD access, but if i use a mini server like some games from here, i can avoid this, but still can't make a dir.
To resolve this i'm thinking using a batch file in cgi-bin/ with an tiny server with CGI support, but probably this is a bad idea.
 

caLTD

Member
Game Developer
Feb 4, 2018
184
165
If you aim single player game you don't need nodejs. You even not need any server side anything. You will save state in client storage.

for creating gameui, check admin lte demo



when you download the source and extract to local dir you got same structure.

what you need to learn is. Creating state to show what ?
load state from client
change images with state
show text with state.
save state to client