What about games with RNG?

[Adabelitoo]

Before anything, RNG means Random Number Generator

I was bug hunting in a game I am doing and one of the events is having a date with your teacher, I know, probably one of the biggest cliches on this forum,. The thing is that in every teacher-student date, the fear of getting caught always take a huge part, but in 90% of any games with this scene you won't get caught, because the dev didn't programmed it, and in that 10% when you can get caught it depend on the choices you picked.

I had this idea, what if: instead of just the classic RenPy menu choice to determinate if you get caught or not, you have a system where the choices increase or descend you % to get caught?

For example:
Going on a date (let's say, watch a movie together) with the teacher vs not going is a 0% vs 15% of being cuaght
End the date after that or go to a restaurant is a 15%-35%
End the date after that or going for a walk after the restaurant is a 35%-60%
Or choose between going for a walk after the restaurant or walk her home is a 60%-50%

Of course, the idea of this is that you increase your risk and reward as you go further. If you go all the way and succed, the player should get more scenes, story, whatever than if you just did one thing and then end the date. If you go all the way and fail, the consequence should be worst than if you fail at the beggining, like she being fired and leaving the city or anything bad.

I don't intend to do this in my own game, this is just an idea I had few minutes ago where two players could choose the same options and get a different story/ending. I don't know if this idea would be great or horrible.

Now, a fun fact with Ren'Py is that you can't just press back and change your luck until you get the best result, Ren'Py has the functions to avoid doing that, so it won't be as easy as that.

 

[redknight00]

If you deactivate the functions to allow full rollback, people will just mod it back in. That's not difficult, just annoying.

Supposing that doesn't happen, your events still may be repeatable, it's just a matter of keep going until the desired outcome happens. That's not difficult, just annoying.

Supposing the game is not modded and events are not repeatable, people will still save scum until they get the desired effect. That's not difficult, just annoying.

Supposing the game is not modded, events not repeatable and the players are honest to not save scum, you still put huge chunks of story content in the hands of RNG, just imagine you play hours and then gets repeatedly dumped by the teacher because RNGod decides you are unworthy. This one breaks the game.

So yeah, I think it's a terrible idea to put story content in RNG. Stat-based gameplay for sure, but never story.

 

[Adabelitoo]

Events can't easily not be repeteable if the dev doesn't do them to be repeteable and even if they are repeteable, the developer should be fully aware of that. If people want to cheat with a mod or don't play honest at all, then there is nothing to do against that, after all is the player the one who decided what do, a lots of devs doesn't want their game to be offered for free and here we are.

About the chunks of story, you could miss them, or you could win more, that would the "thing" of this type of games. I know that 40% of the users in this site only knows two words and those are "save please" and this type of game totally wouldn't work for them, but at the same time you have people who is happy after grinding for 3 hours in an RPGM for maybe a kiss scene, I guess it is just a thing of finding the right public, or for the public to find the right game.

 

[polywog]

Are you familiar with the placebo effect? It's very profitable for hospitals to charge patients for expensive treatments that they didn't receive, and it's amazing to see how quickly the patient gets better upon receiving the bill. "Are you crazy... $8000 for a headache... I am never using that ambulance service again! I'll just take an aspirin next time. Cured.

Even more effective than positive thinking, and a thousand times more effective than prayer alone. "no worries, it's just a broken femur, god will have me back on my feet in no time"

When it comes to success, there is no substitution for brains. I swear by them. No, I don't mean rub a little brain on that broken leg... just apply logic. It's broken, go to the doctor. Wishing for it to get better isn't going to fix it.

As for dating, there are some variables, a small amount of predictable unpredictability, but it is never completely random.
You can assure success 100% by simply applying the right logic. For example: A girl will never turn you down, if you don't ask her out. It really is that simple. We as a society could eliminate car accidents 100%, simply by banning cars, and giving police weaponized helicopters to take cars from lawbreakers who don't give up their cars.

 

[Avaron1974]

I'm a big fan of RPG's so RNG is an old friend. We don't always get along but we know each other well.

While I wouldn't have main story content be RNG based i've got no problems with side content being luck of the draw.

 

[Deleted member 229118]

I dont like rng.
It doesnt add anything other then a random reload(i just save at every choice if i cant roll back) because it didnt get the result i was looking for.
I can understand it uses and appeal but to me it is just an anoyance.

That said i do favor risk vs reward.
Having a system in place that allows you to manipulate the chance of getting caught would be nice.
For example:
Risk of getting caught:
Lock door disable risk of people walking in: 40%
Put in ball gag to reduce sound: 30%
Tie up the victem so it cant run 20:
Close window's: 10%
Put on condom and clean up any evidence of the crime before leaving: 0%

Basicly i dont mind adding rng to the risk of getting caught if i am given the tools to manipulate that risk.

For example in the milf neighbor rape game you had to be very carefull not to make too much noice and lissen carefully when she was on the toilet to not get caught while you quickly checked her bed for keys.
That game has a fun risk management game.
Likewise urge to molest is all about keeping the suspision low enough to get away with it.
Risk management is fine.
Reducing the chance of getting caught makes for fun gameplay.
Rng doesnt make for fun gameplay because it is random and outside of the players control.

 

[scrumbles]

I think this works better if players are awarded with a nice scene even when the MC fails.
For instance, in Cure my addition, there are many repeatable events where the MC is properly punished if he's caught peeping. I don't care if I get bad RNG, because the MC can try again later and the punishment scenes are still fun to see (actually, part of the fun of the game is in getting caught).
Same for most corruption/TF games: I take a higher risk because it's OK see MC being transformed, raped or whatnot.
Even if I get an instant game over, I don't mind it if I unlock something unique (like an animation).

Otherwise I don't think I would appreciate if content were locked behind RNG. I agree with redknight00, I guess I would most likely save scum or mod the game.

 

[anne O'nymous]

If you deactivate the functions to allow full rollback, people will just mod it back in. That's not difficult, just annoying.

Or they'll wait for someone to mod the randomization part like I did for Corruption.

Supposing the game is not modded and events are not repeatable, people will still save scum until they get the desired effect. That's not difficult, just annoying.

Done like OP said, it's not this annoying. The result of the randomization depend of the decision made before, so there's somewhere a variable that either define the limit value or the randomization range. Someone will find it and using the console would be enough to ensure a high chance of success, when not to always succeed.

[...] you still put huge chunks of story content in the hands of RNG, just imagine you play hours and then gets repeatedly dumped by the teacher because RNGod decides you are unworthy. This one breaks the game.

Personally, it's "one try, two try, last try, fuck this game". Despite everything else, it's still an adult game. Whatever if we play it because of its good story or not, we play it for pure entertainment, not for the challenge to successfully pass through a scene.

So yeah, I think it's a terrible idea to put story content in RNG. Stat-based gameplay for sure, but never story.

Agree. Especially since devs tend to not understand how randomization works. They put a if random(0,50) >= 25 then success thinking there's one out of two chance of success. But there's 25 over 50, which is different. Even if the RNG was made so it pass all the numbers before returning one already seen, the reality is that you can still fail 25 times in a row.
Randomization should be used to give more life to the game (the character will be doing this, or that, will wear this or that), but the consequence shouldn't be that you have to do it again before you can effectively progress in the game. Or it should be a really low risk of failure ; still if you really want to include possibility of failure in your game, it's better to base them on the stats, it offer to the player the possibility to easily (relatively speaking) correct this and succeed next time.

 

[redknight00]

Or they'll wait for someone to mod the randomization part like I did for Corruption.




Done like OP said, it's not this annoying. The result of the randomization depend of the decision made before, so there's somewhere a variable that either define the limit value or the randomization range. Someone will find it and using the console would be enough to ensure a high chance of success, when not to always succeed.




Personally, it's "one try, two try, last try, fuck this game". Despite everything else, it's still an adult game. Whatever if we play it because of its good story or not, we play it for pure entertainment, not for the challenge to successfully pass through a scene.




Agree. Especially since devs tend to not understand how randomization works. They put a if random(0,50) >= 25 then success thinking there's one out of two chance of success. But there's 25 over 50, which is different. Even if the RNG was made so it pass all the numbers before returning one already seen, the reality is that you can still fail 25 times in a row.
Randomization should be used to give more life to the game (the character will be doing this, or that, will wear this or that), but the consequence shouldn't be that you have to do it again before you can effectively progress in the game. Or it should be a really low risk of failure ; still if you really want to include possibility of failure in your game, it's better to base them on the stats, it offer to the player the possibility to easily (relatively speaking) correct this and succeed next time.

That was an oversimplification of reality, the main point was that it would be a bigger annoyance to the player than an in-game challenge.

 

[Canto Forte]

The games on here are crowd funded and are very open minded - you like => you play.
The suggestion of RNG that actively stops players from progressing -> you hit a bad choice, you dragged along and now game over -> that is even beyond the level AAA games cheat and rig their games. Players' patience can only go so far. Even AAA games, if they trick you one time, they are out the door. Just imagine crowd funding with version 0.1 or 0.3 where RNG stops players from seeing 60-80% of the renders -> crowd be gone in a second

 

[hameleona]

RNG makes sense in certain situations and is just an annoying shit in others. So when should we use it? The simple answers are as follow IMO:

1. Variation in free-roam games - sometimes you want to have variations in what characters do - so you can use some form of RNG (preferably controlled RNG - increasing the wight of things that haven't happened till now and even forcing specific things to happen if needed).
2. Randomization in complex mechanics. There is a reason XCOM games use chance - the dice force you to improvise, to do risk assessment and weight risk-reward stuff. There is a reason, why "That's XCOM, baby!" is a meme - you will miss that 99% shot sooner or later. So if you have a complex system in your game and don't want it to feel like a puzzle and a pre-determined challenge (i.e. puzzle with numbers) - you use some form of RNG. It can be combat, seduction mechanics, sex mechanics, work mechanics. But again, the only reason for that is if you have a complex system.
3. Not locking stuff up behind stats. I know it goes in the face of a lot of traditional game-design, but I firmly believe that if you have a locked door, it should have a level of Lockpicking skill that automatically unlocks it. And all the chances before that are for the benefit of characters who haven't invested that many points in the skill.

But hiding main-line content behind RNG? No!
Single check end game situations (save or die)? No! No!
RNG for no damn reason? Hell no!