What are your thoughts on saving a game at any time and from any location?

Aug 2, 2022
12
2
I'm torn between allowing players to save their games any location and at any time, or simply a specific area or time, etc. right before sleeping.

One thing i dont like about being able to save anytime is because my user will try to cheat by using multiple saves, and it might ruin the game experience.
On the other hand i like using the save feature to cheat myself :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:, cause i like to explore multiple endings and unlock all secrets.

Or do you think player will be ok with only one save slot, and be able to save anytime anywhere?
 

F4C430

Active Member
Dec 4, 2018
649
727
It's not about "cheating" it's about poor game design, lack of trust in the developer, or just to save time when people want to check out the other paths without restarting the whole game.
 

Meaning Less

Engaged Member
Sep 13, 2016
3,540
7,112
Not everyone will cheat you know. And those that would cheat will do so regardless if you enable it or not.

The only valid reason I see to disable manual save is if your game is designed in a way that people don't need to save at all.
 

Darkenedlight

Member
Apr 25, 2018
111
85
There are really two problems you need to solve here: does the story have enough differences to make a second, completely separate playthrough worth it, and is the gameplay loop solid enough to enjoy the playthrough a second time (or more depending on the number of differences).

If it's just a scene difference, it's a lot easier to save scum it than start over completely to see it. Now, if those choices effect later scene visibility, based on a scoring system most likely, you force the replay to see everything. This could annoy players, as the game needs enough changes to be worth it besides just missing scenes. If it's something like Ren'py, they'll just skip to choices and make different ones (if they care enough at all), or if there's a scene replay they'll just ask for a completed save with all options open so they can watch it there. Making the story have enough significant changes between one playthrough and another is akin to making multiple games using the same/similar assets, so it could take a lot more time and effort along with the impatience of players wanting their specific routes finished before you worry about the other ones. There are some games making it work, but they're few and far between.

If you find a way to make the story worth going through multiple times, the gameplay loop has to not deter people from playing it again as well. VNs are probably the easiest for this since all you need is for the story to be different enough and just as compelling as the first run through their choices, so long as you avoid any kind of grind if it's a sandbox. For things like rpgm, you do have the benefit of players hopefully enjoying the battle mechanics (again, as long as you aren't forced to grind too much), but if it's just a walking simulator it'll probably lose people immediately on a second playthrough.

Tl;dr it's a lot more difficult to create a game that's worth playing through multiple times, and save scumming is honestly easier considering how most options don't affect later content.
 

Daede

New Member
Apr 25, 2017
10
29
The really simple answer to any question like this is just to ask yourself whether you want people to enjoy your game or not. If you want people to enjoy your game then start by respecting their time and finish by respecting what they find fun; as long as you can do that you have everything in between to tell whatever story it is you want to tell or experience it is you want to deliver.

Developer vs Player methods such as Save limitations, RNG mechanics and predatory Monetisation appear to work for large developers only because of the Whale phenomenon combined with the current triumvirate of oversized market, plummeting expectations and the sunk cost fallacy. Large studios do not make money because of Developer vs Player tactics but rather in spite of them due to the scope of the developers reach and size of their potential audience.

Engaging in those kind of limitations will immediately alienate the majority of your potential market and this particular market is tiny to begin with. Ultimately any development decision lies with you and you alone; However it is worth noting that there is not a single game, of any genre, successful or otherwise with those kinds of restrictions that would not have reached a far larger audience without them.
 

zuulan

Member
Oct 12, 2020
182
163
VN-s are hardly games, they are just interactive novels and i think it is totally sensible to allow saves. Even real games it is hardly favorable to have the ability to save anywhere. "Games" that dont have sensible save or rollback mechanic i usually remove limits to use control and just roll over and ignore text.
 

fitgirlbestgirl

Well-Known Member
Jul 27, 2017
1,141
4,295
One of the biggest (non-story/kink-related) reasons for me to abandon a game is if it doesn't have standard Ren'py saving and rollback. Life is too short to have to fight your game to get to the outcome I prefer. If you have to replay entire sections over and over to see what other dialogue choices do, I'm out.
 

Count Morado

Conversation Conqueror
Respected User
Jan 21, 2022
7,213
13,516
All of the above reasons to just have saves available always, plus two more:
  • One save slot is not enough. The game you are making is in development. There will be bugs. There may be game breaking bugs. Encourage people to save early, save often, and use different save slots during development in case they run into one of those bugs. I also like it when the game/vn/whatever opens the save dialogue automatically at key points and/or every new day (in engines that don't have auto saves). People don't have to use them, but at least you provided them.
  • If you don't provide save slots always available, someone will eventually make a patch/mod to do so. Just turn saves on and be done with it. Like a book, the author is only half of the creator of the world ... the player/reader is the other half. It should be a partnership, not a duel.
 

Doorknob22

Super Moderator
Moderator
Game Developer
Nov 3, 2017
2,226
5,370
1. If you're writing in Ren'py you can assume that whatever you're denying the players, it will take them 10 minutes to come up with their own mods. And then you'll have to deal with players complaining about crashes where you can't know if it was caused by mods or not.
2. Don't educate your players. Don't decide for them how to play. If they want to cheat, let them. You're not smarter than them, you don't know better than them. Let every one play how they want.

If you get into a "don't let them cheat" state of mind, your life will be an endless miserable game of "cat and mouse" with modders and you'll waste time fighting the cheaters instead of giving your players what they want: boobies.

My game has a 1:1 combat system but I included a "chicken" button for players who don't want to fight. It has an empire management module, but I included a "VN Mode" where empire management is all but automatic. Some players use the "gameier" elements and some don't, it's not up to me to educate them.
 
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Loganfin

Well-Known Member
Dec 2, 2020
1,256
1,498
I certainly WANT to be able to save at any given point. For convenience, if nothing else. Then I can just pick up later on where I left off.

Another reason would be games that have branching paths, where your choice locks the player into one direction or another. If I want to be able to experience all that the game offers without starting totally over, then a save at that moment that I can go back to is essential. Not allowing the player to do that is being petty, IMO.
 

coffeeaddicted

Well-Known Member
Apr 13, 2021
1,765
1,432
I'm torn between allowing players to save their games any location and at any time, or simply a specific area or time, etc. right before sleeping.

One thing i dont like about being able to save anytime is because my user will try to cheat by using multiple saves, and it might ruin the game experience.
On the other hand i like using the save feature to cheat myself :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:, cause i like to explore multiple endings and unlock all secrets.

Or do you think player will be ok with only one save slot, and be able to save anytime anywhere?
I think this shouldn't be a question.
There are instances like a bug. So if there is only one save slot, hope this isn't corrupted.
RenPy has lot's of save slot which is great. It won't change the story and the one slot only isn't really used anymore (i think).
Autosave is also an option though as a player, everyone likes to save the one special scene but have other saves for others.
Personally i only cheat when the games forces me to do things, that are not logical or annoying.
 
Jul 21, 2021
141
123
Just wanna say that if you take away a save option for anytime then it better be a game with no bugs. Going through a game and finding out your last save spot was hours ago because you didn't visit a save spot can be frustrating. Hell it could it be a breaking point for some myself included depending on how much time was spend. I like the idea of it especially if its a situation like the resident evil games or just survival games.