What do you think is the best point, in the development of a game, to release it to the public?

Sed

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Nov 26, 2016
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I am working on a game and while it is not yet ready for a wider release, I am starting to consider at what point it will be.
The games on this site are all over the place, with many that, in my opinion, are being released far too early. Also the terms used are a bit inconsistent. Most of what is labeled as "beta" fits a more traditional definitions of "alpha".

All that aside though, at what point in a games development cycle do you think it is worth making it public as a "beta" on this site?
Traditionally, for non-adult games, that would be once the game is feature complete, and it is just minor changes and bug-hunting. However I can see both a potential interest, and a use, for releasing earlier so that early player experiences and feedback can help shape the development.

What are your preferences and thoughts on it?
 

Rafster

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Mar 23, 2019
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One thing that may help, is creating a dev log thread on this very section of the forum. I did it 2 months ago, and I'm getting tons of feedback and I'm improving my game a lot, while I get near the official release here.

As for the time? I guess when you have 1-2 hours of play I think, or if you have a complete path on X character, I guess it's time to release. My planned first release is when I finish the first main path (yeah, my game is a sandbox, or at least I try). But take that with a grain of salt, I'm just a random here :ROFLMAO:
 
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Sed

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Nov 26, 2016
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One thing that may help, is creating a dev log thread on this very section of the forum. I did it 2 months ago, and I'm getting tons of feedback and I'm improving my game a lot, while I get near the official release here.

As for the time? I guess when you have 1-2 hours of play I think, or if you have a complete path on X character, I guess it's time to release. My planned first release is when I finish the first main path (yeah, my game is a sandbox, or at least I try). But take that with a grain of salt, I'm just a random here :ROFLMAO:
Solid advice to post here. I took it a couple months ago :)
I have been keeping a thread here for the devoted-fans and other devs to see.

The 1-2 hrs of playtime seems like a reasonable threshold for VN-like games, or any game that has clear progression. My game is a little different though, and playtime is harder to judge. It is kind of a sandbox, but not the type of sandbox that is often found here. However progression is less clear.

In some ways I could already lose a few hours into the game (and I have), but in other ways, you might run out quick. It depends on what the player focuses on.
At thins point I think I will wait until the game has a full beginning, middle, and end. So the game can be theoretically played all the way through, though it will not yet be feature complete, and there will still be events and story to add.

But hearing other peoples thoughts is very helpful in making that call.
For me, the sooner I get feedback, the better. But at this point bug-reports are useless because the script changes too quick, and I don't want to turn the player off the game by frustrating them with a lack of content.
 
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Rafster

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Mar 23, 2019
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It is kind of a sandbox, but not the type of sandbox that is often found here. However progression is less clear.
Does your sandbox have a main storyline, or many long storylines with different Love interests? mine is kinda like the second type, and I'll release as soon as I finish the full storyline for the first LI.

If you have reasonable content on the main storyline, and some optional, I say go for it then. The main complain with the sandboxes here, is the "empty sandbox" syndrome, v0.0000001 released, with only the MC creation screen and a couple screens and that's it...or with only 2 or 3 places without content on it.

Mine still suffers of this syndrome, it only have one place besides the main job hub, so I'm working on adding more content and places, to make it feel more like a sandbox.

I'm gonna take a look on your thread later, to see how your game is doing, probably is at the point of release (pun intended :ROFLMAO:)
 

Rafster

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Mar 23, 2019
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But hearing other peoples thoughts is very helpful in making that call.
For me, the sooner I get feedback, the better. But at this point bug-reports are useless because the script changes too quick, and I don't want to turn the player off the game by frustrating them with a lack of content
I've played a bit through your 0.7 version...and it is a different type of sandbox, more like a management game. It's difficult to judge....and I thought mine was hard. I would play further...but it's not my type of game.

I think your statement at the beginning of your thread is correct, you are near completition already. I say...release it at 0.8 or 0.9
 

Sed

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Nov 26, 2016
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Does your sandbox have a main storyline, or many long storylines with different Love interests? mine is kinda like the second type, and I'll release as soon as I finish the full storyline for the first LI.
The central story line is a very simple "Don't go broke". It is often ignored or irrelevant when other storylines are at play, or things are going well. It only become a significant factor in the "story" when they fall behind and must make hard choices, or extreme events, out of desperation. In this game it is not the story that drives the game or sets the direction. The direction is chosen by the player, who is driven by goals more often than story.

I intend for many secondary storylines though. Many which will play into different kinks or sexualities. The player will not always be pushed, or drawn into them, but opportunities will be waiting.

If you have reasonable content on the main storyline, and some optional, I say go for it then. The main complain with the sandboxes here, is the "empty sandbox" syndrome, v0.0000001 released, with only the MC creation screen and a couple screens and that's it...or with only 2 or 3 places without content on it.
One of the differences I am trying for is to avoid having any grind at all. I am trying to make every step of the game, a part of the game, and not just 'button clicking' to get to the next screen. So days where nothing interesting happens can be passed with literally one click. No, "Get Up" "Go Downstairs" "Go School" ... etc. You can even jump forward a month, or year at a time. I have also eliminated the move maps that many other games use, in favour of a simpler and more straightforward interface that shouldn't have many "pointless clicks" or aimless hunting.

This way, almost every button click is to actively do something, that will matter, and somehow further the game. The "grind" becomes the game, and the "story" becomes an icing on top. An additional element that adds to the game, instead of being the entire game. Or at least, that is the goal.

I've played a bit through your 0.7 version...and it is a different type of sandbox, more like a management game. It's difficult to judge....and I thought mine was hard. I would play further...but it's not my type of game.
Yes, very much a management game, but blended with live-world/breeding/and story-events.
Out of curiosity what does it have, or lack that makes it not your type? With these kind of games I think we largely have to pick an audience and lean into it; you can't please everyone. But I am making an effort to be as inclusive as I can.
I recently added a "Trans" character because I realised that programmatically it would be easy to do. It is not a personal interest of mine though, so it is unlikely to get much more than basic unique content. But there should be enough shared content available to make it worth playing for someone who is into it. That's what I'm guessing, anyway.

I think your statement at the beginning of your thread is correct, you are near competition already. I say...release it at 0.8 or 0.9
It's at 7 of 100, not 7 of 10. I think I might be a lot more ambitious than you realise. I am a long way from the finish line, and there are still large portions of the game I haven't even started. Job-skills, Prostitution, Hiring process, Training, and School for the children, are some of the big ones.
It's gonna be a while :)
 

Rafster

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Mar 23, 2019
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The central story line is a very simple "Don't go broke". It is often ignored or irrelevant when other storylines are at play, or things are going well. It only become a significant factor in the "story" when they fall behind and must make hard choices, or extreme events, out of desperation. In this game it is not the story that drives the game or sets the direction. The direction is chosen by the player, who is driven by goals more often than story.

I intend for many secondary storylines though. Many which will play into different kinks or sexualities. The player will not always be pushed, or drawn into them, but opportunities will be waiting.
Wow, that's quite an ambitious goal, and yeah, it can be noticed on the demo. I like your idea of the secondary storylines though.

One of the differences I am trying for is to avoid having any grind at all. I am trying to make every step of the game, a part of the game, and not just 'button clicking' to get to the next screen. So days where nothing interesting happens can be passed with literally one click. No, "Get Up" "Go Downstairs" "Go School" ... etc. You can even jump forward a month, or year at a time. I have also eliminated the move maps that many other games use, in favour of a simpler and more straightforward interface that shouldn't have many "pointless clicks" or aimless hunting.
Interesting idea, I am so focused on the classic "Groundhog day" sandbox design, that when I play something else I get lost. It's nice to have the ability to skip days if needed.

Yes, very much a management game, but blended with live-world/breeding/and story-events.
Out of curiosity what does it have, or lack that makes it not your type? With these kind of games I think we largely have to pick an audience and lean into it; you can't please everyone. But I am making an effort to be as inclusive as I can.
I recently added a "Trans" character because I realised that programmatically it would be easy to do. It is not a personal interest of mine though, so it is unlikely to get much more than basic unique content. But there should be enough shared content available to make it worth playing for someone who is into it. That's what I'm guessing, anyway.
First off, I suck at management games, really. I find them interesting but they overwhelm me and I'm casual as fuck. The other thing is I'm gay...so that rules me out almost completely out of your potential audience. But that's fine, my game is gay focused entirely, and 98% of the people here won't even touch it anyways.

BTW, you don't need to be inclusive if you don't feel like it, it's better to focus your writing/creative/programming skills on your kinks/sexuality. When you expand too much, you open a whole can of worms that you may not be able to close. For example, if you include one gay character and the MC may flirt, or even have sex with. But then you'll have to deal with the uproar of straight gamers running to the hills at the sight of the gay tag, or gay players expecting a full storyline with more than one gay characters...it's impossible to please everyone and can become quickly a shitstorm.

Be careful when you write your future trans character ... if you don't have a heavy personal interest on him/her, or have a kink with them, better skip it. Your project is too big and ambitious already , and you're adding problems on top of it.

It's at 7 of 100, not 7 of 10. I think I might be a lot more ambitious than you realise. I am a long way from the finish line, and there are still large portions of the game I haven't even started. Job-skills, Prostitution, Hiring process, Training, and School for the children, are some of the big ones.
Wow, I swear I read that as a 7/10, since your version is 0.7 , and 1.0 indicates a full fledged game (mine is barely at 0.16a :ROFLMAO: ). When I see a number above 0.6 I usually expect a game with a lot of features, and yours seem to have a lot. You're not making me easier to give you an answer.
 

Sed

Newbie
Nov 26, 2016
38
114
Re: getting lost
I am trying to keep things intuitive enough that a "tutorial" is not necessary. I never like those, and most people just skip through them anyway. Besides, if the UI is well designed it shouldn't require much explanation.
A "Quick start/help" screen that can be toggled on and off with a key will be added at some point, but probably nothing more.

As for being inclusive, I hear your advice. It is something I've seen others struggle with, and am well aware of the peril. The only reason I added the trans character was because it fell into an odd exception where all of the tools I needed for it had already been created for other purposes, so with very little effort I was able to get a decent payoff.
I do intend to include some "controversial" kinks, and am prepared for any blow-back over it. The game will primarily be aimed toward hetro sex, and prostitution, but there will be optional side-stories and events that include potential spouse-sharing, incest, and even some gay content. Not enough to make the game appealing to you, but enough for those that are Bi, or Heteroflexible to scratch their itch.
I intend to push the boundaries of content quantity, by starting with only a few, finishing them, and then add a few more, finish those, etc. That way I should avoid having things spiral out of control. That is why I have only introduced a small number of events so far. I want to mostly finish the mechanics and gameplay before investing much time into them.
 
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random Crow

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Apr 4, 2019
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I'd say you can release as an alpha, if:

There is a game loop
(chop wood -> get ep -> invest in a better axe-> repeat) as a simple example.
Something that the player can do to better understand the concept of your game. Which brings me to the next point:

Have the core done
Which should be 1-3 main features in your game. If you know that your game will contain for example 'dating', have at least one hoe that you can date. Now if also farming plays a huge role, than you better implement another hoe that you can work with on a field.

I remember, there was a game on steam, that had dinosaurs as the main topic. There was only one problem: There were no dinosaurs. I couldn't stop laughing. It's like getting a cheesburger. Without cheese. Without ham. And without burger. Better to avoid something like this.

Test the game yourself
If you feel a slight emotion of 'fun' while playing that's a good sign. If you test yourself you can figure out what this build is missing. Even if it might take another 2 weeks.
LoZ:Breath of the Wild would have been done years earlier, but they decided to implement physics (rolling bolders etc.), which made the game so much more fun.

Trust your guts
There is only one human who knows the best when to release a game: It's you!
When you feel ready, prepare for release and do it. Don't underestimate quality control though. Count some time in for that.

Mmm, yeah, that was it from the top of my head.
I hope I could help a bit :)