What does Linear Plot Progression Need to be Good?

[whiskeyrose]

I've noticed many popular games have linear plot progression with each heroine. What I mean by linear progression is that you have an open world to explore, but heroines will just hang out waiting for you to complete tasks/get skills high enough until you push their stories forward. They will never stop waiting for you to move forward and gameplay can be summed up in a walkthrough documents with instructions such as "talk to her in the afternoon, pick this option, go to the garage and get this item, bring it back to her, ect." There is very little player choice, if any it's usually a final choice in a characters path.

Examples of this model are Summertime Saga, Son of a Bitch, Mythic Manor, Harem Hotel.

On paper I dislike this model. I feel it just adds a couple steps to the sensation of "press button get porn" sensation. But then I've also played the shit out of games that use this type of gameplay. The titles above I've clocked hours and hours into.

So what do these types of games need in them to make them good? Is it the writing? Is it the amount of content? Is it the visuals?

 

[u z i]

i'm no expert but i'll give my opinion anyways. i think the content is the most important part. like for example the tasks the mc does should be related to the progression of the story. also there should be a balance between the "random" stuff and lewd scenes. i don't want to keep on completing the mc's "goals" without getting any rewards for it. but then again if the story is interesting, i won't mind and probably won't even notice the grind. hope this makes some sense? ^_^'
also, good visuals and decent writing are always a plus.

 

[Deleted member 865655]

I think that there needs to be a strong backbone of writing for linear plots to be at their most enjoyable. To me it's like a book; sure, most of them are linear, but you enjoy the ride anyway because you get captured by the writing. It's easier said than done, of course.

Like in Mythic Manor, the fish-girl-character sunburns easily and it's actually a detriment to her as a person. So she casually mentions needing sunscreen because of this and you, as the MC, have to go get it for her to be able to continue her plot. The story doesn't beat you over the head with it and it's still a simple fetch quest that can be described as "Do this, go here, get this, do this again".
To me, however, it's a better example of the linear plot style because you have to pay attention to her dialogue and it ends up revealing an aspect of her that most probably wouldn't consider. While her being sunburned easily isn't some ground breaking plot reveal, I think it does immerse you further in to the world that it's trying to create for you.

 

[whiskeyrose]

I think that there needs to be a strong backbone of writing for linear plots to be at their most enjoyable. To me it's like a book; sure, most of them are linear, but you enjoy the ride anyway because you get captured by the writing. It's easier said than done, of course.

Like in Mythic Manor, the fish-girl-character sunburns easily and it's actually a detriment to her as a person. So she casually mentions needing sunscreen because of this and you, as the MC, have to go get it for her to be able to continue her plot. The story doesn't beat you over the head with it and it's still a simple fetch quest that can be described as "Do this, go here, get this, do this again".
To me, however, it's a better example of the linear plot style because you have to pay attention to her dialogue and it ends up revealing an aspect of her that most probably wouldn't consider. While her being sunburned easily isn't some ground breaking plot reveal, I think it does immerse you further in to the world that it's trying to create for you.

That was my first thought, that creative writing and having some semblance of a cohesive path.

But then I thought about a project like Son of a Bitch, Which even with a translation project it's writing is almost unintelligible, every plot line boils down to "sexually harass a friend/family member until they love you." But god damn if I haven't put 10-12 hours into the game.

Which then has me thinking that maybe it's not the writing at all, but rather that there's a lot of content. That maybe the amount of scenes is more important then the actual setting?

 

[redknight00]

It's not the plot linearity as a feature so much as it is a necessity of the non-linear world. When you're already tracking dozens of variables with multiple characters and states of the world, streamlining the core plot points allows extra freedom to add content where it's needed.

For example, Mythic Manor is basically tracking one variable per girl, that makes it much easier to design and add side events for them because you only have to worry about one thing. On the contrary, think if Velle had more variables, say a public slut and a femdom variable, that's just three, but now your events have to account for these and the main events have to add different renders, the side events have to be coded with three variants in mind, and that's just too much work on top of an already complex game.

On the other hand, making the world more non-linear adds a big exploration and discovery factor. Still using MM as an example, it has a lot about going to places, meeting people and just discovering new stuff, you never know when or where you'll see the next cute mythic, but they are densely spread all over the city.

And lastly, linear stories as a whole have a big burden of giving just enough elbow room to keep the player going, that if all else fails should be the option to skip entirely a girl's storyline. Like Nefari story will always have a big tease factor and being used as a lab rat, there's no going around that, but you can skip her entirely if you so desire. Punishing a player for not liking certain content is always bad.

 

[whiskeyrose]

It's not the plot linearity as a feature so much as it is a necessity of the non-linear world. When you're already tracking dozens of variables with multiple characters and states of the world, streamlining the core plot points allows extra freedom to add content where it's needed.

For example, Mythic Manor is basically tracking one variable per girl, that makes it much easier to design and add side events for them because you only have to worry about one thing. On the contrary, think if Velle had more variables, say a public slut and a femdom variable, that's just three, but now your events have to account for these and the main events have to add different renders, the side events have to be coded with three variants in mind, and that's just too much work on top of an already complex game.

On the other hand, making the world more non-linear adds a big exploration and discovery factor. Still using MM as an example, it has a lot about going to places, meeting people and just discovering new stuff, you never know when or where you'll see the next cute mythic, but they are densely spread all over the city.

And lastly, linear stories as a whole have a big burden of giving just enough elbow room to keep the player going, that if all else fails should be the option to skip entirely a girl's storyline. Like Nefari story will always have a big tease factor and being used as a lab rat, there's no going around that, but you can skip her entirely if you so desire. Punishing a player for not liking certain content is always bad.

Definitely agree for players to not be punished for not following other heroine's plot paths they don't like. But the world does feel more alive when they interact in some capacity.

And yes, the linear design is so much easier to code as a developer, which is what makes it tempting. But I question is if it's fun to play. I guess when you're the developer and see how the sausage is made it seems so simple. You can blitz your own game in seconds and it feels flat.

 

[Deleted member 865655]

Which then has me thinking that maybe it's not the writing at all, but rather that there's a lot of content. That maybe the amount of scenes is more important then the actual setting?

Well what're your favorite scenes from that game in particular? Maybe there's a common trend for you (And others) that make it to where you can look pass the writing and still get really in to the game regardless?

I have a similar guilty pleasure interest with Corruption by Mr. C, I don't particularly enjoy the writing at all but there's a lot of content to do and find in the game's city. Like with the two mothers and daughters in the playground, I was obsessed with returning as much as possible and seeing how far they'd go once you corrupted them even further.

Definitely agree for players to not be punished for not following other heroine's plot paths they don't like. But the world does feel more alive when they interact in some capacity.

Ah, this is one of my favorite aspects of some of the better games available. Especially Runey's Harem Hotel in the later content with how some girls appear in other girls' story lines. It makes the game's world feel much more alive and fun to just be in as a player. For me, at least.

 

[redknight00]

And yes, the linear design is so much easier to code as a developer, which is what makes it tempting. But I question is if it's fun to play. I guess when you're the developer and see how the sausage is made it seems so simple. You can blitz your own game in seconds and it feels flat.

These are just ideas, and more important than knowing what works and what does not is understanding why it works. If a completely linear story is not to your tastes, add more variety while keeping the complexity down, add qualifiers to actions (such as Paragon/Renegade system), emphasis on stats and different methods of resolution, investigation, etc.

 

[whiskeyrose]

Well what're your favorite scenes from that game in particular? Maybe there's a common trend for you (And others) that make it to where you can look pass the writing and still get really in to the game regardless?

Well admittedly I enjoyed it because there was a ton of content. There's like 25 characters to go through. But I spent most of the time following a guide (because you just have to) and using the cheat editor to fix the game breaking constantly. Was always a weird post-fap sensation of shame because I spent an hour fucking with variables to see a few blurry wmvs.

But what really hooked me was that the game scratched my impregnation itch, if only slightly. A couple characters will get pregnant after you cum in them enough, and several more characters will comment/berate the player (in broken english) about the risk of pregnancy when you cum inside them (even if they can never get pregnant). Really says something for how desperate I am for impregnation content that the line "but son trying, you get child in me are you?" can flick the switch.

So I think the answer really is the amount of content, along with if there's something specific that really hooks you in particular.

 

[Joshua Tree]

That was my first thought, that creative writing and having some semblance of a cohesive path.

But then I thought about a project like Son of a Bitch, Which even with a translation project it's writing is almost unintelligible, every plot line boils down to "sexually harass a friend/family member until they love you." But god damn if I haven't put 10-12 hours into the game.

Which then has me thinking that maybe it's not the writing at all, but rather that there's a lot of content. That maybe the amount of scenes is more important then the actual setting?

For me my first play through's of SOB ended up about discover new content and triggering new scenes. I started play this game way before the translation project. And the first machine translated ones was horrible. Fuck cancer right?

Its the sheer amount of content in this game, that is the pull though. The individual stories and arch's is on the "meeeh" side.
I still re-visit this game now and then, particular with new updates. But kinda get let down by Avengers prone to keep add more characters than rather expand on ongoing character arch's and progression. See this with his other game BK as well.

SOB does offer a few "alternative" paths for some characters though. Dunno if that can break with the linear progression, but you as a player is left with more choices that lead you onto those paths based on your preference as player and not a "take the blue pill, or red pill" choice on the the screen.

 

[Joshua Tree]

I've noticed many popular games have linear plot progression with each heroine. What I mean by linear progression is that you have an open world to explore, but heroines will just hang out waiting for you to complete tasks/get skills high enough until you push their stories forward. They will never stop waiting for you to move forward and gameplay can be summed up in a walkthrough documents with instructions such as "talk to her in the afternoon, pick this option, go to the garage and get this item, bring it back to her, ect." There is very little player choice, if any it's usually a final choice in a characters path.

Examples of this model are Summertime Saga, Son of a Bitch, Mythic Manor, Harem Hotel.

On paper I dislike this model. I feel it just adds a couple steps to the sensation of "press button get porn" sensation. But then I've also played the shit out of games that use this type of gameplay. The titles above I've clocked hours and hours into.

So what do these types of games need in them to make them good? Is it the writing? Is it the amount of content? Is it the visuals?

Without a linear progression, we would more be looking at a "simulated" life of each character though. It would be kinda like you start a clean slate in a Sims 3 world, populate it with characters of your choice, and just let it play out.

I guess you could have progression etc time gated, so unless you meet required goals within certain time limits events might/will unfold that make things harder for you, or even you will lose the chance on certain characters. But from a player's perspective; I hate time gated content.

I don't think linear progression is such a big deal. The issue (if any) is lack of give the player choices and decisions in how to get from point a to b. Many times I played games and ended up with; "wtf? I didn't want to do it like that". The game only gave one choice forward. We do have to remember though that most creators of adult games on this site do this as a hobby and on their own. The more choices we want in games, the more work on the creators to deliver. Just look at GGGB, you end up get a lot of choices but game get very complex for the creator.

 

[whiskeyrose]

For me my first play through's of SOB ended up about discover new content and triggering new scenes. I started play this game way before the translation project. And the first machine translated ones was horrible. Fuck cancer right?

SOB does offer a few "alternative" paths for some characters though. Dunno if that can break with the linear progression, but you as a player is left with more choices that lead you onto those paths based on your preference as player and not a "take the blue pill, or red pill" choice on the the screen.

I thought about that too, but the branching paths in SoB aren't done well either. The game doesn't have replay value, you just save before you hit the branch in a characters path. And none of the game is affected other than you get locked out of seeing the scenes from the other path. Whether you whore your mom out or keep her to yourself doesn't change the rest of the game whatsoever, other than it might lock you out of your sister's threesome scenes too.

Without a linear progression, we would more be looking at a "simulated" life of each character though. It would be kinda like you start a clean slate in a Sims 3 world, populate it with characters of your choice, and just let it play out.

I don't think linear progression is such a big deal. The issue (if any) is lack of give the player choices and decisions in how to get from point a to b. Many times I played games and ended up with; "wtf? I didn't want to do it like that". The game only gave one choice forward. We do have to remember though that most creators of adult games on this site do this as a hobby and on their own. The more choices we want in games, the more work on the creators to deliver. Just look at GGGB, you end up get a lot of choices but game get very complex for the creator.

Yeah, but there are ways to do character manipulation without just a singular path. Superpowered does this by giving the player to manipulate character variables back and forth. Wife Trainer also does this (and I could never aspire to create such a project), by having open manipulation of characters and having your actions heavily dependent on future interactions. A mixture of variables for events that go past a simple "if-then" model.

I guess I was wondering if a simple linear progression is good enough, or if it is lazy. I guess the answer is 'it depends'.

 

[Joshua Tree]

I thought about that too, but the branching paths in SoB aren't done well either. The game doesn't have replay value, you just save before you hit the branch in a characters path. And none of the game is affected other than you get locked out of seeing the scenes from the other path. Whether you whore your mom out or keep her to yourself doesn't change the rest of the game whatsoever, other than it might lock you out of your sister's threesome scenes too.



Yeah, but there are ways to do character manipulation without just a singular path. Superpowered does this by giving the player to manipulate character variables back and forth. Wife Trainer also does this (and I could never aspire to create such a project), by having open manipulation of characters and having your actions heavily dependent on future interactions. A mixture of variables for events that go past a simple "if-then" model.

I guess I was wondering if a simple linear progression is good enough, or if it is lazy. I guess the answer is 'it depends'.

Yeah but for the alternate paths in SOB, you wouldn't know about them unless you read some walkthrough or played it several times already though. They triggered by the players desire rather than option on the screen asking if you want to do an alt path? You could question yourself if you just trigger things by random chance and clicking due to hard to keep track of things in the game though, at least if you are a first time player.

Superpowered.. It give you as a player a lot of different tools to interact with and impact the characters in the world. But I feel that is kinda what the game is all about. You wouldn't really play the game because of some great story or writing, at least I wouldn't. It's more just about character manipulation, not so much about linear story progression, as it kinda is none? (or at least a very thin one) That is the impression I ended with anyways.

My first brush with rpg's, adventure games or whatever with any graphic worth any. Is probably the old Sierra classics, such as Kings Quests, Police Quest, and in regard of adult games, "Larry the lounge lizard". Linear progression, and you as the player had to solve it all by text input. Then we had Lucas start release games with the SCUMM engine, and the gem "Zak McKracken" got released. It offered multiple characters and ways to solve the game. Actually, you could start with a party of characters that had no hope in ever manage to complete the game (how cruel devs was back then). But it did offer a lot of ways to complete the game as well.

Simple linear story progression for me isn't really a big thing as long as the story is engaging and the game doesn't throw me curvball's out of no where which make me feel the protag drop out of character. Or the creator make a mess of story arch's, create plot holes and so forth. Keep it simple, but make it good I guess.

 

[desmosome]

I am of the opinion that games with your definition of linear plot progression (basically all the sandbox games on this site) simply cannot have a good story. The pacing is a big problem and most games of this type do not even have an overarching plot in the first place. It's basically just a character interaction system with a simple goal of gaining points to progressively unlock lewds.

 

[anne O'nymous]

I think that there needs to be a strong backbone of writing for linear plots to be at their most enjoyable. To me it's like a book; sure, most of them are linear, but you enjoy the ride anyway because you get captured by the writing. It's easier said than done, of course.

It should (must ?) go further than this in its copying of books. Too many games, with or without linear plots, fail with the global narration part. Too many authors feel the need to explain everything right when (or just before) it happen, while too many others never explain everything. Both are wrong. The firsts because they become boring being uselessly too verbose, and the seconds because they let the players lost in a context that they don't understood.
Everything should be explain right in time, while still being (relatively speaking) predictable ; exactly like in books. At first you'll not understood why this character say/do this, but it's a clue, and adding them, you start to see the future.
Take the case of MC's birthday. His girlfriend start to be distant few days before. Then, the said days, she act clueless, she's overbooked at works, no time for a morning hug ; anyway she said it few days ago, today will be a busy day for her. And MC don't need to wait for her at lunch time, she'll eat with her best friend. A good author will insert few clues that she's preparing a threesome (we're in an adult game after all) for MC's birthday. This while a bad one will fill us with tons of thoughts of the girl explaining that she feel bad to act like this, but MC will really love his birthday gift, god she's so happy that her best friend agreed for a threesome, it even remember her the time when they where fucking senseless in their dorm at university.

Sure, these are adult games, the most pleasant part is the lewd ones. But isn't it also pleasant to arrive to the scene we seen come from some times already, and jump in joy because you knew it ? And sometimes you were wrong, it's not what you expected. But still while retrospectively looking at the game, you discover the real clues. Well done author, you got me on this one.
That's, at least for me, what make a story really enjoyable, and by so the game saying it. And that's what a linear plot progression need to be good ; once again, at least for me.

 

[Deleted member 865655]

Sure, these are adult games, the most pleasant part is the lewd ones. But isn't it also pleasant to arrive to the scene we seen come from some times already, and jump in joy because you knew it ? And sometimes you were wrong, it's not what you expected. But still while retrospectively looking at the game, you discover the real clues. Well done author, you got me on this one.
That's, at least for me, what make a story really enjoyable, and by so the game saying it. And that's what a linear plot progression need to be good ; once again, at least for me.

I think you bring up some very valid points for writing a good plot for any form of media in general, not just limited to porn games!

We're lucky in that games are an interactive and visual media that can deliver a story with much more than just words. So with your wonderful example of a birthday threesome surprise from your girlfriend, we could add in some visual hints and clues towards the surprise. So on the girlfriend's nightstand could be a phone number with a pink heart around it and if the player notices this, they could perhaps call it. When they do, they would get a girl on the line and a few lines of dialogue that may or may not help an astute player figure out what's going on before you, the writer, reveal it officially.
This is all, of course, assuming that these visual hints would be completely optional and sort of hidden away from the player unless they're really paying attention to the environments of the game.

I would say, however, that a writer should be absolutely confident in their hints they spread out throughout the writing and world, or else they may fall in to the trap of overexplaining or ending up changing the reveal at the last moment because they second guessed themselves in their writing. It would be even more of a literary suicide if they looked at the feedback from their players and change the reveal at the last moment just because a few players were guessing at what would the big reveal be.

 

[anne O'nymous]

I would say, however, that a writer should be absolutely confident in their hints they spread out throughout the writing and world, or else they may fall in to the trap of overexplaining or ending up changing the reveal at the last moment because they second guessed themselves in their writing.

I think that your last few words explain everything. It's more than probable that if authors tend to explain too much, or not at all, it's simply because they don't know themselves where their story goes. How can they plan a scene, make the character react by anticipation according to it, when themselves don't know yet that the said scene will exist ?
Just here there's a lot of people who started a thread with, "I have an idea for a game". But an idea isn't enough. You can't start your game just with this, you need to develop your idea, to have at least the main milestones and know how it will end.
Obviously, many professional writers will confess that they were themselves surprised by what their character did. But it was an action/reaction inside the main story. They haven't been surprised because they didn't knew what they wrote. No, they have been because, will writing this part, it suddenly appeared evident that, according to the character personality and the future main events, their character shouldn't react otherwise.
To keep as example my surprise threesome as birthday gift, the author could have planned it to be a deep secret. But while writing it, he suddenly discover that the personality of the girl don't do fine with a so big secret. She's overwhelmed by the anticipation. Knowing how much it will please the man she love is too much for her. The author haven't planed it at first, but to stay put to her personality, he have no choice, she'll phone the MC and tell him everything.

It would be even more of a literary suicide if they looked at the feedback from their players and change the reveal at the last moment just because a few players were guessing at what would the big reveal be.

You know, I'm pretty sure that for too many of the games we have actually, it wouldn't change anything at all.
Take a game like Lancaster Boarding House by example. It was one of the deepest deception I ever had with an adult game. The story isn't bad, Daniels K is a good writer, and there's quality in the CG. But there's an unsolved mystery inside this game. A secret book lead students to practice a ritual, while other are "part of the secret society". It's nothing dark or deep, it can effectively by seen as just a prank. But they are payed to do this. It's also said that it already existed when they goes in the boarding house for the first time, and that a girl once disappeared after the ritual. And that's all... Only in one of the many ending we have what can eventually looks like an answer ; there's a thought of the MC which is more or less, "I'm sure it's her". I can deal with all this being just a prank, but not with the "I'm sure it's her" as sole explanation, and yet, only in one of the ending.
There's also the teacher. If you play it well, she became your bitch and she let you fuck her while her husband look at the TV not far away... And once again that's all. It's the last scene with her, the last time she appear. You made her crave for you dick... but she never tried to have it again.

And the worse, at least from my point of view, is that most of the players don't complain. It's half a story for the mystery, half a character's arch for the teacher but, no, apparently it's totally normal to end your game on this.
Therefore, would a total change on the reveal be effectively a problem ? Between the games unplanned where the author himself don't know what will be the reveal, and the players that don't even notice when there's no reveal, it would probably works fine. Alas because I agree with you, it should be nothing less than a literary suicide.

 

[whiskeyrose]

I am of the opinion that games with your definition of linear plot progression (basically all the sandbox games on this site) simply cannot have a good story. The pacing is a big problem and most games of this type do not even have an overarching plot in the first place. It's basically just a character interaction system with a simple goal of gaining points to progressively unlock lewds.

That I can somewhat agree with. I'm trying to think of games that have a good story or at least a unique feel to them and only Wife Trainer and Incubus City comes to mind. That doesn't mean that other games are bad or stories are garbage, but Wife Trainer is the only lewd game I've played that has some semblance of a plausible writing style and path for why all this sex is happening. If you push someone too fast they react like a human (telling you to fuck off and never talking to you again), and you have a limited amount of time to interact with them; Characters don't just wait around for you to progress their path. On top of that the end state of each character can be wildly different as you progress with them, and they can be used with future characters based off what you did to them previously. But it comes together so nicely because the writing and gameplay are so fantastically put together.

But I do agree. These sandbox games where girls just hang out waiting for you to talk to them and move through their path are crippled. It makes no sense that the MC spent the past month railing a character in every imaginable way/location, and that character's sister just lives her life waiting for you to make your way over to her to start the same. Neither character cares what you've done, and they will just wait for you for months of in-game time on end for you to mosey over and begin the dicking.

 

[Joshua Tree]

But I do agree. These sandbox games where girls just hang out waiting for you to talk to them and move through their path are crippled. It makes no sense that the MC spent the past month railing a character in every imaginable way/location, and that character's sister just lives her life waiting for you to make your way over to her to start the same. Neither character cares what you've done, and they will just wait for you for months of in-game time on end for you to mosey over and begin the dicking.

You know the second a creator start "time gate" content so the player need to do several play through's to get it all. He/she will get railed on so hard they will end up feel like been in a gang bang with no lube. I guess sandbox games where characters kinda got their "own schedule" and will only appear at certain areas at a given time, will give a sense of they are living their their own life and doing stuff. I know it doesn't really compare but if you look at like GTA5, and when you switch from one character to the other, you end up with whatever they was doing at the time, and not necessary where you wanted them to be. At least it gave the impressions the characters was doing their own thing when you wasn't in control.

The more fleshed out the writer/creator make the characters with background story, and all that adds to the immersion of they doing their own stuff though.

 

[desmosome]

You know the second a creator start "time gate" content so the player need to do several play through's to get it all. He/she will get railed on so hard they will end up feel like been in a gang bang with no lube. I guess sandbox games where characters kinda got their "own schedule" and will only appear at certain areas at a given time, will give a sense of they are living their their own life and doing stuff. I know it doesn't really compare but if you look at like GTA5, and when you switch from one character to the other, you end up with whatever they was doing at the time, and not necessary where you wanted them to be. At least it gave the impressions the characters was doing their own thing when you wasn't in control.

The more fleshed out the writer/creator make the characters with background story, and all that adds to the immersion of they doing their own stuff though.

Its two side of the same coin. Giving all the NPCs complex schedules improves the sense of immersion a bit, but it can get extremely tedious if the gameplay isn't robust enough or fun enough. As for the time limit thing, it can improve the pacing somewhat because you are driven by the game clock to pursue the goals in a fairly standardized manner. Only if its done well and with enough leeway though.

On a side note, I did think of one sandbox game that has a decent overall plot. A Spell for All is one of my favorite games on here and its a sandbox. At its heart, its a gotta catch em all game where you try to charm all the girls (and there are a shitload of girls). It has a great intro which introduces some mystery, and there is a sense of exploration as you move through the town to learn more about the spellbook, people, and past history. There is a great sense of character growth as you become more powerful and there are a few key encounters and questline that pushes the plot forward. Many of the girls are intertwined in that charming one can help you progress with others or just get stronger to tackle some other puzzle. If you compare it to lets say Corruption by Mr. ZZ, the general goal is the same, enslave all the girls in town. But where Corruption has absolutely no plot, A Spell for All incorporates decent story arcs into the encounters. There is a bit of a grind especially at the beginning though. Fortunately, using Cheats for mana and gold does not mess up the pacing and progression at all.