What makes a game good to you?

[TheMoneyBoys]

Hey all.

I've been doing a lot of market research (hehe) here to see which kinds of games do well, and from what I saw the successful games are very diverse, the only common thread being most of the $800/m+ games have is being consistent with updates mostly and having a nice Patreon page. Not all of them, but most.

So when you're deciding weather you'd pledge or not to a creator (or if you're a full pirate - weather you'll follow and finish the game or not) what are the main things that compel you to go or not go for it.

How important is the render quality and lighting for you, how important are the characters and their believability in context of the story for you, how important is the creators advertising savviness ( good promo material, nice f95 thread, great Patreon landing), how important are the tags being to your liking and how important is the general story being appealing to you. And finally, how do you find those values that you find important clashing with some successful games that other people like and support?

For me personally character design and writing is king, then story then renders in that order of importance . I personally don't care very much if it's a pure VN, kinetic novel or open world.

I thought it could be an interesting and productive discussion for people developing and wanting to develop games for the community.

 

[Kinderalpha]

The stand out games for me are the ones that just feel like an actual game, and not just an early build. To me, its a feeling when playing where I can step back and say, "Damn, this is a really good game.". Visuals, feedback, clear and intuitive UI design, enjoyable gameplay, and many more elements together are what make that happen.

 

[Stompai]

Creating a game is like trying to be an alchemist, mixing the different parts together to create an enjoyable experience.
- Game Design
- Universe
- Level Design
- Code
- Graphics
- Story
- All the other little things

That's even harder for single devs which need to take care of all of that on their own, when each part can actually require years of study independently compared to studio with teams composed of specialized members in their own category.

At some point, sacrifices must be made in some categories for a single dev, too much work than most people realize.
Let's not even talk about the time and work needed to manage things like several social medias + Patreon for advertising and rewarding supporters.

But when a dev manage to "mix" a game correctly with all these listed "main" part (and other smaller ones) fitting well with each others so that it gives me an enjoyable experience even with the limits than being single entails. That would be a game AND a dev I'm willing to support.

 

[kytee]

For me personally character design and writing is king, then story then renders in that order of importance . I personally don't care very much if it's a pure VN, kinetic novel or open world.

I feel almost the same way, though I'd swap writing and story. I'm assuming by well-written you mean no grammatical errors and engrish. I've read too many boring stories that are well-written that I eventually abandoned, but there are many interesting stories with tolerable engrish that I enjoyed greatly.

 

[DawnCry]

First thing I ever do when I start the game is to see the presentation and core aspects, if the creator doesn't care about them then I just leave.

Then I go towards the girls and the fetishes, overall I play almost everything unless it's related to disgusting fetishes, the disgusting being a literal meaning of the word.

After that I just want a decent writing, not being inconsistent with the information we are given or too simplistic or thin that it doesn't exist.

Lastly I have my personal likings, mostly the main fetish? I have is to defeat rivals and have a gameplay, for me the right way to do a game is for things to happen and you having to react over them, an example of how it:

-Badly done: A girl is being attacked by bandits, do you save her? Y/N
-Well done: A girl has been kidnapped by bandits, rescue her before it's too late!.

 

[SeventhVixen]

Creating a game is like trying to be an alchemist, mixing the different parts together to create an enjoyable experience.
- Game Design
- Universe
- Level Design
- Code
- Graphics
- Story
- All the other little things

I add Audio department (Sound, Music and Ambient tracks) to that. Is a very important part on game design that I see often forgot in Adult games. I know some players don't lplay adult games with sound on, but that's like not writing the dialogue because some players skip the text... xD

 

[Synx]

I add Audio department (Sound, Music and Ambient tracks) to that. Is a very important part on game design that I see often forgot in Adult games. I know some players don't lplay adult games with sound on, but that's like not writing the dialogue because some players skip the text... xD

I think most of people don't like voice acted games. Unless you actually pay professional voice actors it want be good: to overacted and often way to happy. Besides some like to give the chars a own voice in their head.

I can't really see sound being a problem overall as you can turn that off so easily.

 

[SeventhVixen]

I think most of people don't like voice acted games. Unless you actually pay professional voice actors it want be good: to overacted and often way to happy. Besides some like to give the chars a own voice in their head.

I can't really see sound being a problem overall as you can turn that off so easily.

I'm not talking about Speech.

But the problem is the usual lack of music and sound.

 

[Synx]

I'm not talking about Speech.

Why would people hate ambient sound etc when you can turn that of with a simple switch?

I have seen speech mentioned several times as a deal breaker as it was terrible and often integrated so you cannot turn just that part of.

 

[riktor]

Story / Characters would be the most important for me, though I still want choices that actually matter so kinetic novels are right out unless they can avoid all cliche plot devices and generally pointless drama. Game Mechanics would come next, with artwork a distant third. I don't have any tags that I require to be there but there are some absolute turn-offs that will make me avoid a game entirely if they are unavoidable or constitute a large part of the content (ntr, futa, trans, trap, urination, scat; basically anything cuck, gay or disgust related). Of course that's all about the game itself, as for the dev side of things I don't care about the 'quality' of their patreon page or advertising in general, but good communication and reliable update schedules are a must.

 

[215303j]

Whether I follow a game or not mainly depends on how gripping the game is.
For me that is mainly related to the story (incl. character design), but not fully.
There are games which do everything correct: great renders, decent story, good pacing etc. but it doesn't grab your attention.
There are also games which are objectively / visually not so great but still very worthwile to follow.
It's subjective and hard to explain, but some games just have it. Many games don't have it.

Whether I would support a developer, on the other hand, depends for a large part (besides what I wrote about gripping games) about his interaction with the forum here.
I'm much more likely to support a dev who contributes regularly, at least to his own thread but preferably also in the General Forum etc., and does it in a way that I like.
I'm much less likely to support a dev who acts arrogant and self-righteous, e.g. by complaining about piracy on a pirate forum, or by ignoring (or insulting) people who try to be helpful.

 

[Adabelitoo]

- Visuals
- Story and writing
- Characters and character development
- Gameplay
- Sexual content

In a super TL;DR I could say that those 5 things make any game good or bad. The more things you do right, the better the game will be over all.

Now, I really think that a game starts to be "good" when those 5 things doesn't feel like individual elements anymore. When all of them, or at least most of them, work so well with each other that you forget for a second that you're playing "someone else's porn game", when the game stops being a piece of software and starts feeling like an experience.

Extra points if I can notice how much work the dev is putting into it, which could be shown in things like GUI, music, characters remember and reacting to things you did or say long time ago and others.

 

[khumak]

For me the most important thing is the character development. I should actually care what happens to the protagonist and his friends and family. I should feel some sort of emotional attachment to most of the characters whether positive or negative. It's the dev's job to create enough of a story for these characters for me to care about them. If I don't care about the characters then it's very unlikely I will care about the story either.

Good renders are certainly important but I can play and enjoy a pure textbased game with no graphics at all. The graphics are an add on to the real gameplay. The story and character development should not feel like it's just an afterthought and something you bolted on after spending most of your time rendering.

Basically, you can have a good game with bad to mediocre visuals but you can't have a good game with bad character development and/or a bad story no matter how good the renders are.

 

[anne O'nymous]

How important is the render quality and lighting for you,

From very important to absolutely not important.
All depend of the story and the writing. If both are (or try to be) serious, then the CG have to follow and the author have to put efforts into them. But if the story is purely on the entertainment side, they I can go with whatever CG there's, it's rarely what lead to decide if I like the game or not.

how important are the characters and their believability in context of the story for you,

From very important to not so important.
It depend solely of the story. If the story isn't this serious, then I can forgive some inconstancy on the credibility of the characters ; sometimes it's what add a little something to the game, especially if it stand on the parody side.

how important is the creators advertising savviness ( good promo material, nice f95 thread, great Patreon landing),

I don't care at all. What matter is his social behavior (don't be a dick, stay polite, etc.).

how important are the tags being to your liking

I rarely care. Despite not being a femdom or a NTR lover, I can like a game having both, if it's an interesting one. And it apply for all the other tags, except gay but it's just a question of purely sexual preference.

and how important is the general story being appealing to you.

It's a tricky question, what do you mean by the story being appealing ?
The story of a game like Swing & miss (NTR, wife stealing, woman brain washing, femdom) is totally not appealing for me. Yet I play it, because the story is interesting.

And finally, how do you find those values that you find important clashing with some successful games that other people like and support?

The other are idiots with bad taste ?
More seriously, every one have its own taste, and as you can see, for me there's no criteria that are strongly defined. It totally understand that some can like a game that I personally don't found interesting.

Because, in the end, it's what effectively mater, the interest of the game. And it's something that can neither be defined, nor explained, and that absolutely not depend of the quality of the game. Depraved Awakening, by example, is a really great game ; good writing, amazing CG, good story and all. But I never felt interested by it. At the opposite, there's game with average everything for which I wait for each update, because I found them interesting.

 

[dirtylion]

IMO Something that's often neglected is the gameplay aspect. Story and graphics are important but if the gameplay isn't there then it's really just another glorified visual novel. There's nothing inherently wrong with VNs, but a little more diversity is always welcome. Some of the newer games have amazingly rendered graphics but the same old gameplay just gets tiring after a while.

 

[215303j]

how important is the creators advertising savviness ( good promo material, nice f95 thread, great Patreon landing)

I don't care at all. What matter is his social behavior (don't be a dick, stay polite, etc.).

Although I fully agree with your sentiment, you are missing something I think.
Marketing can give a lot of drive to a game. There are games which are making a lot of money but are really not that great (e.g. Milfy City). There are great games which are making decent money (e.g. $1000/month), but for some reason don't attract the huge crowds.
WVM does it really well in my opinion. I think it's also due to the weekly updates which makes sure it stays in everyone's mind.

IMO Something that's often neglected is the gameplay aspect. Story and graphics are important but if the gameplay isn't there then it's really just another glorified visual novel. There's nothing inherently wrong with VNs, but a little more diversity is always welcome. Some of the newer games have amazingly rendered graphics but the same old gameplay just gets tiring after a while.

I kind of agree, good gameplay can definately a plus.
But it can also be a hindrance of sorts.

Let's take Long Live the Princess, which, among Renpy games has great gameplay (for those who haven't played: you have to collect clues in the game and then use them magically to mind control the girls). But the problem is, that you need some time to get into it each update, because everytime you need to remember what the clues were exactly and how they might be useful. But if you do it each update, the update can be fairly short, so you spend 1 hr trying to figure out what you did last time, and 1 hr actually enjoying the new content. For games like this one, I tend to skip 4-6 updates between playing sessions, making sure that there is a decent amount of new content. But for the dev, this behaviour is certainly not ideal... Don't get me wrong, I really like Long Live the Princess! It's just to illustrate something...

And I am not even talking about "games" where the "gameplay" is trying to remember which girl uses which bathroom at 8 in the morning... Or games which force you to randomly click every 10 doors in the house before finally finding the girl again...

 

[anne O'nymous]

Although I fully agree with your sentiment, you are missing something I think.
Marketing can give a lot of drive to a game. There are games which are making a lot of money but are really not that great (e.g. Milfy City). There are great games which are making decent money (e.g. $1000/month), but for some reason don't attract the huge crowds.

Not wrong. I must admit that my answer was focused on my own interest for a game, more than on the global effect it can have to gain support.

WVM does it really well in my opinion. I think it's also due to the weekly updates which makes sure it stays in everyone's mind.

Honestly, for me it tend to have the opposite effect, but it's probably due to my old age. Being born in the early 70's, I learned to savor what I waited for. And I value it more than what I can instantly have, mostly because "too fast" rarely rhyme with "good quality".
Not to be disrespectful to the author, but sometime for me it feel like he's "whoring" his game. I prefer authors like Nottravis or hopesGaming, who take the time to put everything in the right place.
But the counter part is obvious. While they have more or less the same amount of fans, they have less support from them. Each one of us will more easily support a game that advance at our own pace, and like the youngest form the majority of the community, the more dynamic is the game, the more he'll have support.

 

[khumak]

I kind of agree, good gameplay can definately a plus.
But it can also be a hindrance of sorts.

Let's take Long Live the Princess, which, among Renpy games has great gameplay (for those who haven't played: you have to collect clues in the game and then use them magically to mind control the girls). But the problem is, that you need some time to get into it each update, because everytime you need to remember what the clues were exactly and how they might be useful. But if you do it each update, the update can be fairly short, so you spend 1 hr trying to figure out what you did last time, and 1 hr actually enjoying the new content. For games like this one, I tend to skip 4-6 updates between playing sessions, making sure that there is a decent amount of new content. But for the dev, this behaviour is certainly not ideal... Don't get me wrong, I really like Long Live the Princess! It's just to illustrate something...

Interesting critique for Long Live the Princes. Personally, I would hold that game up as an example of how to do it right. I love the idea of your progression with different characters being tied to how much you know about them rather than arbitrarily picking the right answer to choices where it's not at all apparent what the actual right answer is.

I also like the fact that it's set up so you can retry things that you've failed at so you don't actually need a walkthrough. You can play around and fail some things and learn about the characters and make progress naturally. I think the game is supposed to eventually have a bit more in the way of time restrictions when it gets closer to completion but hopefully it will still allow enough wiggle room to not require a walkthrough.

I also think the use of a perverted little fairy sidekick is a fantastic way to throw hints at you that reduce the need for a walkthrough without detracting from the story at all and while making you laugh at the same time. I do find myself getting stuck when I get to the late game stages but since the game isn't finished I don't really let that bother me. I'm hoping the dev will add some more late game clues from her to streamline that section a bit more.

 

[dirtylion]

Let's take Long Live the Princess, which, among Renpy games has great gameplay (for those who haven't played: you have to collect clues in the game and then use them magically to mind control the girls). But the problem is, that you need some time to get into it each update, because everytime you need to remember what the clues were exactly and how they might be useful. But if you do it each update, the update can be fairly short, so you spend 1 hr trying to figure out what you did last time, and 1 hr actually enjoying the new content. For games like this one, I tend to skip 4-6 updates between playing sessions, making sure that there is a decent amount of new content. But for the dev, this behaviour is certainly not ideal... Don't get me wrong, I really like Long Live the Princess! It's just to illustrate something...

You bring up a good point. For the majority of the games out there , the replay value is quite low. I don’t want to spend hours grinding through the same gameplay just to see maybe 10 minutes of new content. This is a problem for all story driven text based games. That’s why alternate routes and different endings exist, so you get something new for each play through, but unfortunately it’s not as widely implemented as they should be. Dreams of Desire is an example that does this really well.

 

[woody554]

things that put me off:

slipping release dates in an early game. slipping means 99% sure that they've already lost the interest and at best there will be 1 or 2 half-assed shit releases several months apart they used 2 workdays max to make. then they'll just go awol. or in more insidious cases comment somewhere they're still doing it, but it's never true. doesn't matter what their excuse is, the game is already as good as gone.

the exception are the old projects that have already proven they can keep up their slow pace. but that's so, so rare. or people who already have several FINISHED games on their record. serial quitters will abandon their newest game of course, and most of them are scammers to begin with.

as far as personal tastes go, if it doesn't have a hot milf/mom or can't be modded into one I'm just gonna skip it after reading the tags. same with female protagonists or RPGM.

now, normally personal preferences don't matter and I wouldn't even mention them because there's all kinds of tastes. but these three seem to encompass a large majority of smut consumers like us. they also happen to be by far the highest grossing categories, if that matters to you. 20-50k a month games versus the 1k games with 'more interesting scenarios' people like to claim are superior. but the numbers just don't match.

that said, your BEST bet is to write a story YOU love. because if you don't you're just gonna burn out hating what you do, and it will be a lukewarm result at best. the passion always comes through, or the lack of it. if you hate incest games it's not gonna work for you. if you loooove overweight nuns eating giraffe shit, your people will find you. and you'll have tons of fun everyday.

I'm a painter and graphics engineer myself, and I like good pictures. but really render quality doesn't seem to be THAT important. people love stories, even shitty stories. any story that has a beginning, middle and end is usually enough for a surprising number of people. every time I check a game with shit renders I'm amazed how quick I stop thinking about that and just wanna know where the story is going. hopefully the mom is gonna put out even though she always says she won't. rarely she disappoints.

speaking of that, always make your heroines reluctant. not bitchy or assholes, but make them struggle internally before giving in to their lust. make them say 'no' a couple of times. tease. change their mind. do that and they'll instantly seem more real. only objects do what you want, never people. god I hate so much the characters who throw themselves at your dick.

otherwise, fast or slow release pace I don't mind if only you deliver on time. pledges require trust, and trust is earned through time. through actions, rarely words. if the story is decent, and there's no red flags, people will wait. even unreasonably long. but most of us have seen hundreds of dropped games before it gets anywhere good, so it's a hair trigger. you'l need to prove yourself.

treat it as a real job, not a hobby even if it is one. commit. become that guy who in 5 years everyone knows: "yea, he always delivers. he will finish this one too like his other games. I'll totally pledge for him."