Where do you draw the line on coersion/non-consent stuff in a game?

[khumak]

I'm sure everyone has a different line in the sand for coersion, non-consent, etc in a game. In my case I'm not a fan of using force to remove all choice from the target (hard rape). But as long as they still have a choice and can turn it down, things like blackmail, peer pressure, deception, rough sex, bondage, mock rape (no means yes, token resistance), etc is fair game. Even if that means turning it down also leads to a negative consequence (like someone following through on their blackmail threat).

 

[lazymunchlax]

And your stance on doing something to someone who is drunk and unconscious?

 

[khumak]

And your stance on doing something to someone who is drunk and unconscious?

In a game the only 2 options I don't like are intoxication where the target is unconscious and hard rape. I would draw a different line for real life, but a game is fantasy. That's why I'm curious where other people draw the line for a game.

 

[Deleted member 1942105]

Violence, like hurting and punching (or worse) is a no-go for me.

 

[mgtoons]

Um...its pixels depicting lewd acts so I really don't care. It's not real. No one is getting hurt and if you don't like it, turn it off. That being said, I wouldn't be interested in anything that involved violent rape.

 

[telotelo]

imho necrophilia (snuff) is the bottom line for non-consensual measurement
it's too low i think for some people, but. . .
at least for the most of time and case it applies generally
unless the game is something in fantasy or supernatural setting (there's always exception)
not that i prefer it myself but everyone need to have guidelines for moral in this kind of thing

all the other option mentioned above is 'stretchable'
hard to pick one because it's too relatable to situation in rl nowadays
is it consensual initially and afterward?
this is bitchy question to be answered to, inasmuch should be avoided

it could've been an happy ending with your scenario thus non-consensual initially but not afterward
i.e.: some straight guy got his tushy renovated so hard forcefully then he never look straight again (awakened orientation)
it could been worst, initially consensual but goat knows what happen it ends with tragedy
this have thousand of example itself

also, ryona is still a thing and a niche in this forum (just sayin)

 

[Deleted member 3145675]

Hi,
any "non con" is a no go.
any "rape" or "sleep sex" is a no go.

regarding "mental dom", "blackmail" or "corruption" etc... it depends on the plot - the settings - and the quality of writing.

why? - easy - in order to sleep with someone - you have to persuade them to accept your advances - most ways imply talking, showing yourself in a good way or splashing out your goods - (so far you have not used any violent or substance induced methods to subdue the person yet your words may have already imprinted the mind of the feeble creature)
(even more so if it's a late night boozed hunting)

The outcome of the hunt depends only upon your skills - now if you are not a caveman you won't have to resort to bludgeoning or poisoning your prey in order to "score".

 

[Staimh]

I find it close to impossible to play an MC who rapes, carries out sleep sex or non-con acts.

However at least one game (MC female) in one of the paths the MC is raped and the path resolution is wreaking vengeance on her rapists.

 

[Pretentious Goblin]

It depends on what you mean by "draw the line". If it's "I will not play it if has that content", that would be rape.

And since "rape" has varying definitions, with some people unhelpfully trying to put every type of non-con under "rape", my definition is this:

1. Sexual contact without the victim's consent.
2. Sexual contact in which the victim is physically unable to give consent (e.g. passed-out, sleeping, gagged and bound)

And while other types of non-con aren't deal-breakers, I prefer to avoid them where possible, with coercion, blackmail and financial exploitation being the worst. I dislike seeing them in my favorite fetishes (corruption, NTR). Some of the others mentioned (drunkenness, deception) are more palatable, though they should still only be used to get the ball rolling. Peer pressure I feel is an ordinary part of social life and doesn't really qualify as any kind of non-con as long as the person is free to disengage from their peers.


Looking at some of my favorite games, let's see what level of non-con they have:

Overwhored: Invasive hypnosis against the victims' will. Essentially rape as it takes away their ability to consent (though it's pure fantasy stuff), even though they enjoy it. However, that aspect, plus the mental enslavement of heroic characters, are what actually makes the non-con appealing for me in that game.

iNSight of you: Mind-control, coercion and blackmail. Extremely non-con overall, though the victim is such a terrible person that it's hard to feel too sorry for her, and I believe this is intentional. Actually, spite toward the character just adds to the appeal of seeing her humiliated in every way. Not to mention she's wired to get off on that treatment.

Karryn's Prison: Everything besides stripping and restraining Karryn requires her consent. They can't even cum on her unless her desire for it is high enough. This I like, especially since you can decide just how far she's willing to go.

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So yeah, a lot of my favorites have non-con aspects, but all of these have some way of softening the blow, so to speak, usually with fantasy or sci-fi elements. Games like this are far outnumbered by legions of games that are too rapey (like 90% of what comes out of Japan) or too vanilla (insert almost any popular VN here). Personally, I know I prefer corruption / moral degeneration arcs that are based on people's inherent lust, pride, greed and selfishness. Non-con often cheapens that theme, though I realize some characters need prodding to get things moving in a believable way.

 

[woody554]

hard rape is the problem for me. but even there I can see a room for scenes where for example a rapist attacks a LI, starts raping her, MC intervenes and kicks the shit out of him. but I can't deal with it being thrust on me as the MC even in fantasy. there must be some element of consent involved, she has to be the one ultimately deciding to do it, even if it was in exchange for something else like in blackmail. or waking up during it but finding out she actually likes it. the rationalization can be something ridiculous like that, but it has to be there. it can be as unlikely as you like, but the fantasy of it is that in THIS specific case she against all odds DOES like it.

yea, I think that's the core of it for me. the fantasy of her liking it.

the thing for me is that if she has NO choice but to suffer through it, if her control over it is 100% removed, it means my will is NOT overpowering hers and my domination fantasy is destroyed. also why the mind-control/magical stuff leaves me cold.

 

[anne O'nymous]

I'm sure everyone has a different line in the sand for coersion, non-consent, etc in a game. In my case I'm not a fan of using force to remove all choice from the target (hard rape). But as long as they still have a choice and can turn it down, things like blackmail, peer pressure, deception, rough sex, bondage, mock rape (no means yes, token resistance), etc. Even if that means turning it down also leads to a negative consequence (like someone following through on their blackmail threat).

It's a really difficult question.

I think that, more than a question of effective choice, it's a question of context.

Take a classical. A secretary is put face to a choice, either she let her boss turn her into his personal cum dumpster, or she's fired. She have the choice to say "no", but is it really a choice ? If she's an alone mother of two, she can't afford to loose her job, there's no choice here. But if she's young, just starting her career, and her boyfriend have a job, she can quit ; if her next employer ask why, she can just tell the truth ; her previous boss tried to abuse of her and she had no evidences, so she preferred to quit.
And at the opposite, you've the girl, both fully submissive and totally in love, that one day say something like, "I'm yours, totally yours. You can do whatever you want with me, absolutely everything". Then, whatever will happen is fine. It doesn't matter is she can't say "no" before her lover share her with a football (US there's more players) team, she agreed beforehand that whatever will be done to her is fine.

 

[Callowayaway]

Take a classical. A secretary is put face to a choice, either she let her boss turn her into his personal cum dumpster, or she's fired. She have the choice to say "no", but is it really a choice ? If she's an alone mother of two, she can't afford to loose her job, there's no choice here. But if she's young, just starting her career, and her boyfriend have a job, she can quit ; if her next employer ask why, she can just tell the truth ; her previous boss tried to abuse of her and she had no evidences, so she preferred to quit.

Of course, this fails to mention how she got the job in the first place.

 

[khumak]

hard rape is the problem for me. but even there I can see a room for scenes where for example a rapist attacks a LI, starts raping her, MC intervenes and kicks the shit out of him. but I can't deal with it being thrust on me as the MC even in fantasy. there must be some element of consent involved, she has to be the one ultimately deciding to do it, even if it was in exchange for something else like in blackmail. or waking up during it but finding out she actually likes it. the rationalization can be something ridiculous like that, but it has to be there. it can be as unlikely as you like, but the fantasy of it is that in THIS specific case she against all odds DOES like it.

yea, I think that's the core of it for me. the fantasy of her liking it.

the thing for me is that if she has NO choice but to suffer through it, if her control over it is 100% removed, it means my will is NOT overpowering hers and my domination fantasy is destroyed. also why the mind-control/magical stuff leaves me cold.

Sounds like we draw the line at a similar place for similar reasons. For me choice is really the key. If she doesn't have a choice then I find it disturbing rather than arousing.

It's a really difficult question.

I think that, more than a question of effective choice, it's a question of context.

Take a classical. A secretary is put face to a choice, either she let her boss turn her into his personal cum dumpster, or she's fired. She have the choice to say "no", but is it really a choice ? If she's an alone mother of two, she can't afford to loose her job, there's no choice here. But if she's young, just starting her career, and her boyfriend have a job, she can quit ; if her next employer ask why, she can just tell the truth ; her previous boss tried to abuse of her and she had no evidences, so she preferred to quit.
And at the opposite, you've the girl, both fully submissive and totally in love, that one day say something like, "I'm yours, totally yours. You can do whatever you want with me, absolutely everything". Then, whatever will happen is fine. It doesn't matter is she can't say "no" before her lover share her with a football (US there's more players) team, she agreed beforehand that whatever will be done to her is fine.

Yeah there are certainly some grey areas. The power dynamic between a boss and a subordinate is a pretty common one for this type of thing. I don't find it appealing when used against someone you're supposed to like, but when used as some sort of payback for something she may have done to "deserve it", then I'm ok with it.

Total submission is something I have always found strange. I don't really understand it so I actually find that more disturbing than most of the other options on my list even though it might be entirely voluntary. I can still find it hot as well, but it always kind of freaks me out a bit.

 

[anne O'nymous]

Total submission is something I have always found strange. I don't really understand it so I actually find that more disturbing that most of the other options on my list even though it might be entirely voluntary. I can still find it hot as well, but it always kind of freaks me out a bit.

Well, it is disturbing, it's something that never happen elsewhere than in this particular case.
The closer one can be to this situation is when it's a parent, and only during the few first months of his child's life. Yet, if you're effectively the one that decide everything for him, you share this power with your wife/husband, and the baby will never obey you (mostly because he don't understand what you ask or what is happening).
For any other situations, the other person still have his free will. This said free will can be limited but still exist ; by example, a comedian will have to play the actual scene, yet he will play it as he feel it and can possibly have the possibility to improvise a line. Even a prisoner have more free will than a total sub. There's risk for him to not do as said, but it's a possibility he have. Hell, even the most submissive pet have more free will in the end.

Therefore, it need a particular kind of mind to deal with a total sub. As adult and responsible as we can be, to be honest we all tend to freaks out sometimes because we have to decide of our own destiny ; being sure that we made the right choice isn't always something easy. And then, suddenly (and even if it's limited to the sexual part of the sub life) we have to decide for the destiny of someone else...
And it being just part of a game don't necessarily change the way we feel. Even if the story don't achieve to make us immerse in it, there's still a part of our brain that imagine this happening for real.

 

[hakarlman]

Are we supposed to check what we're okay with or not okay with? The poll question is kind of confusing. It leaves room for enough confusion to not able to trust the results.

I voted other.

 

[khumak]

Are we supposed to check what we're okay with or not okay with? The poll question is kind of confusing. It leaves room for enough confusion to not able to trust the results.

I voted other.

Ahh, I see your point. I could have worded that better. It doesn't look like you can change the text after the fact though. I meant for people to vote for which ones they like.

 

[khumak]

I thought I'd give some examples of the types of scenarios I'm thinking about for this sort of content.

One of the games I'm working on is based on a male main character (MC) and his girlfriend (GF). GF has a number of female friends. Some of them are nice. Some of them are not. Some of them are legit friends. Some of them are bitches who are only pretending to be her friend.

The pretenders are going to have all sorts of things they do to sabotage both MC and GF, either for personal gain or just for the hell of it. Those are the types of girls that I plan to set up scenarios to punish. In some cases MC will be the beneficiary of that punishment. In others, GF will be. And in some, both will be.

I think most people have had the displeasure of discovering that some of the people they thought were their friends weren't, in reality friends. They got stabbed in the back at some point. That's the type of person I envision for these options.

 

[rk-47]

hard rape and violence, ive seen rapey games where the lady ends up liking it and then consents midway but then i suppose that more like corruption

 

[Velminth]

Mostly at the how impactful it is from the context/dialogue perspective. If it's the usual hentai noo please don't (while ahegaoging all around) it's whatever, if it's crying and sobbing and stuff like that I draw the line hard.

 

[DaScoot]

Personally where I draw the line is the context. I'm okay with playing games with harder content, but it has to be very clear that the MC (if they're the one doing it) is a villain. Both in how the game treats the MC and in how the other characters react to them. I've played a handful of games - all Japanese ones, as it happens - where the MC rapes one or more people yet the game still treats them as a heroic protagonist somehow.

I play a lot of Nutaku games, for example, but I had to quit out of Versus Tales after seeing multiple scenes of the MC raping his own party members, and the party still treating him like a world-saving hero. That's fucked up.