Why are Android VN's not a popular thing?

[AMRFTY]

Hi F95! Happy Easter! Looking for your knowledge and experience in understanding this topic better. I'll preface with context and then get to the question itself. If you're short for time, just go for the question.

Been here for almost a year, studying AVN's and developers. Played a couple dozen games, all kinds of engines. Been on the road recently and was made aware that Android versions of certain games were made. Tried about 20 - 25 of these and while some definitely aren't comfortable, I was amazed at how well most visual novels translate to Android devices (provided they have been optimized well enough). This led me to wonder the following question:


Why isn't releasing (A)VN's for Android devices a popular thing?

You must be registered to see the links

I ask this question because the interaction and form factor (especially with an android tablet) lends itself so well for laid-back (or one handed) gaming. People have been speaking about VN's on Android here for years - so there has to be a reason (or multiple) why it hasn't become a popular thing to do. Now outside of obvious limiting factors where some games require heavy input or demand strong hardware specifications, I am looking for what you think keeps it from becoming a more common option. Of course I have researched and though-experimented on this before asking your time, and a few options to consider arise:

1. Form-factor. It's harder to see things on a smaller screen. A developer will have to make sure the VN looks good and plays well on both small and big screens.
2. Income. Google probably won't let your AVN splatter all over the Store, so it's Patreon/Itch platforms offering the APK up. It's not easy install nor easy payment.
3. Security. Android still requires you to do the whole 'install from unknown sources' thing, which might be a barrier for non-technical users. Fornite went there though!
4. Compatibility. I found reports of old game engines not working 100% on new Android versions. Also, a PC screen is usually 16:9 - easier to optimize.
5. Habit. Most people develop for PC on PC. Big screen, mouse input - and screen size is virtually 13" to 60". It's easier to test and requires less effort.
6. Privacy. PC's are usually used privately, away from prying eyes. People usually use their android devices in public. If you fap to these games, you could fap in public for added suspense - but I'm not sure it's a great risk-reward balance.

Really looking forward to thoughts, ideas and comments by both avid players of VN's, developers, specific Android VN players and the like. Because this is a topic of opinion , I do ask people to try and be kind and respectful. There's probably not one clear-cut answer here, if there is even such a thing as an answer. For some developers it could be as simple as 'I hate Android because (XYZ)" and that's a fine reason. I however do want to hear your opinion because for me, in researching, it felt like something that could have been more popular. Thanks for your time and I look forward to your responses!

For your consideration (Extra context)
After trying out APK version of AVN's here, I even played a couple of these in public transport and public places to see what it was like. At first, I felt uncomfortable because I have a 10" screen and there's always that one sex scene that pops up out of nowhere. Eventually I got pretty comfortable with it, making sure I did my best to shield bystanders from seeing lewd stuff unwanted. I also tried a couple big budget VN's in comparison - which are a bit easier to play in public, admittedly - and because the experience was tailored to Android, it felt pretty good. Especially on mobile where it's more natural to shield people from looking at what you are doing. Doing all sorts of complicated taps (especially in sandbox games) can get kind of iffy on a smaller mobile phone though.

Have a complimentary imaginary coffee if you made it this far!

Spoiler: 'Imaginary Coffee!? Give me a better reward, you text-heavy peasant!'

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

 

[Jeevant]

Lazy devs smh

 

[Hagatagar]

Partial because they'd need to offer support for whatever shenanigans the android port could cause, which for most devs is way beyond what they are capable of.

Besides that, sooner of later someone will port it themselves (if it's possible), no need for the dev to do anything.

 

[AMRFTY]

Lazy devs smh

Interesting you wrote that! I really hadn't considered the developers simply not being up for making Android versions of their games, let alone making Android-focused versions of their games. I don't know if I would call devs lazy as it seems like an ungodly amount of work to even get games out there. But I have never attempted making a game, neither porting one over to Android. Is it hard? How long does such a process take?

Partial because they'd need to offer support for whatever shenanigans the android port could cause, which for most devs is way beyond what they are capable of.

Besides that, sooner of later someone will port it themselves (if it's possible), no need for the dev to do anything.

Understandable, people are going to want support for official products you release. You drive a valid point of devs not being capable (or maybe not even having the time) to deal with the extra issues you get when doing an APK game. But what is if the game is made with Android in mind? Would that change things?

As far as the port goes, I completely agree with you. That still leaves me wondering as to why it's not more popular. People aren't rounding up the best APK-converted games into lists. We don't keep watchlists with games 'PLAYABLE ON ANDROID'. Maybe I should start doing that for completed games. See - you just gave me an idea there. That's how niche it feels!

That said, you'd of course want a product to work well when it's officially released and/or sold by the dev (especially if you paid a couple pints of beer for it). When it's an unofficial port by a third party however, are you really eligible for any type of support at that point? Usually these ports are unpaid for, so it's a grey area surely.

 

[purplexel]

But I have never attempted making a game, neither porting one over to Android. Is it hard? How long does such a process take?

I can only speak to Ren'Py. If you have a custom UI, you do have to spend a little bit of time optimizing it. But more importantly, I think people just get scared away by the build process. Windows and Mac are basically one-click. Android builds are a bit of a process which can take an hour or two if you've never done it before. Even if you follow the steps correctly, there's a high chance it will fail without some tweaking, so anyone expecting it to just 'work' may simply give up at that point.

I agree though, many don't seem to realize what an important platform it is (I have far more Android downloads than Mac downloads for example).

 

[AMRFTY]

I can only speak to Ren'Py. If you have a custom UI, you do have to spend a little bit of time optimizing it. But more importantly, I think people just get scared away by the build process. Windows and Mac are basically one-click. Android builds are a bit of a process which can take an hour or two if you've never done it before. Even if you follow the steps correctly, there's a high chance it will fail without some tweaking, so anyone expecting it to just 'work' may simply give up at that point.

I agree though, many don't seem to realize what an important platform it is (I have far more Android downloads than Mac downloads for example).

Thanks for adding your thoughts. I will look into what the development process to export for Android is later this year, seems like a worthwhile investment. It's probably not a very inviting process - but I still think developers should consider it if it gives you an entire market extra to cater to.

An acquaintance through a friend actually said the following:

If you ever find a dev(that uses renpy) that has trouble getting their game working on android, I can pump out a port for them in less than an hour. Any ren'py VN is very easy to port to Android. You can do it yourself with having access to the "source code".

Thought this was interesting. So he classifies the move as 'easy', but that's probably because he has experience going through the motions to get it right for Android.

 

[Fronte91]

For VNs made using Ren'py, building an Android version is relatively simple. As purplexel mentioned, PC and Mac builds are one-click and Android does have a few more steps, but once you figure it out it's easy to repeat for each new build.

The big limiting factor for Android is the package has to be less than 2GB, which for my VN I just barely kept it under. For Ren'py, this isn't an issue if you've planned ahead to make multiple parts (each under the 2GB limit) that connect together, which requires some specific scripting in each part, but I didn't figure that out until I was like 90% done with my first project so I didn't want to split things up. I'm not sure about other game engines like Unity, Unreal, Godot, etc. as far as how easy it might be to connect multiple parts together, but higher quality assets take up more space so it makes it even more difficult to keep it under that 2GB limit.

 

[F4C430]

Why do people who have this discussion always assume that just because you can use your Android device in public means that's what everyone does with adult games? People with common sense wouldn't do that. I have a library of adult games installed on my tablet and i never use it outside my home. Don't forget that there's cameras everywhere these days and the more you try to hide what you're doing, the more suspicious you look to onlookers. And be mindful of reflections in windows.

 

[moskyx]

Actually, in my experience, people tend to use their android devices to play privately at home, because they can't have that privacy on their PC. And yes, I'm also impressed by how many people demand android ports, which may point at creating official apks as a thing to really take into account when starting a project - not sure how many of those people would actually pay for them, though.

That said, most devs here are hobbists who develop their games on their PC, therefore their games are only optimized for PC because that's the device they can easily test their games on as they work on them. Also, if you want a functional and optimized android version, you'd need to plan ahead in terms of coding and image creation (and filesize), something that many devs never properly did because, well, on PC there are way fewer restrictions. Then, there are too many android devices out there, and each person has their own issues with memory, or other apps running in the background, or whatever, that are going to impact the game's performance; however, in my experience as a discord mod, they'll blame the dev first as soon as the apk crashes or doesn't run as smoothly as they wish. PC players might be annoying when it comes to saves, installing updates, or things like that, but the % of android users with performance issues easily exceeds those by an order of magnitude - and they'll also ask about saves and updates too. So the 'customer service' for them is really exhausting and takes time from other productive tasks. So, OP, ask your friend if he's willing to offer that service on top of the porting one, which is the easiest.

 

[AMRFTY]

For VNs made using Ren'py, building an Android version is relatively simple. As purplexel mentioned, PC and Mac builds are one-click and Android does have a few more steps, but once you figure it out it's easy to repeat for each new build.

The big limiting factor for Android is the package has to be less than 2GB, which for my VN I just barely kept it under. For Ren'py, this isn't an issue if you've planned ahead to make multiple parts (each under the 2GB limit) that connect together, which requires some specific scripting in each part, but I didn't figure that out until I was like 90% done with my first project so I didn't want to split things up. I'm not sure about other game engines like Unity, Unreal, Godot, etc. as far as how easy it might be to connect multiple parts together, but higher quality assets take up more space so it makes it even more difficult to keep it under that 2GB limit.

Thanks for adding your thoughts, Fronte91. You make some great points here. This specifically took me by surprise:

The big limiting factor for Android is the package has to be less than 2GB

Each time you upload an APK using the Google Play Console, you have the option to add one or two expansion files to the APK. Each file can be up to 2GB and it can be any format you choose, but we recommend you use a compressed file to conserve bandwidth during the download. Conceptually, each expansion file plays a different role:

• The main expansion file is the primary expansion file for additional resources required by your app.
• The patch expansion file is optional and intended for small updates to the main expansion file.

There's a 2GB size limit on APK's?! Holy ****, I never knew this. That makes SO much sense for a lot of things now. So that's why big games like Fortnite give you a tiny installer and then allow you to download the game files from in game - so it doesn't overload the Google Play store. That's smart, but also a problem. Because then APK's from outside the Play Store couldn't be bigger than 2GB. So that's why they offer the APK and the game files separate on illegal games. It's all starting to make sense now!

What you said about planning ahead and cutting a game into multiple parts is actually pretty smart and maybe even crucial! But that is something you would have to know it beforehand indeed. Or compress your game to bits afterwards. That's something that should definitely be on the radar when creating a game for Android and gives so much limitations. Thanks for bringing awareness to that!

Why do people who have this discussion always assume that just because you can use your Android device in public means that's what everyone does with adult games? People with common sense wouldn't do that.

That might be directed at me and I totally agree with you, most people won't use their devices in public! Looking at Android statistics, most of the devices are actually smartphones and smartphones are technically for both private and public use. Only 2.2% of internet is tablet usage, which means probably 90% (guesstimate) of android users are smartphone users.

That said, I would also advice against playing adult games in public spaces. It's simply possible due to the nature of the Android medium. It raises a bigger question however - what's the need for Android ports if gamers are at home? Two options immediately jump to my mind:

1. Player doesn't own a PC and does own an Android phone, which allows player to still play the game
2. Player doesn't have access to privacy (due to family members or otherwise) or to a shared PC

People tend to use their android devices to play privately at home, because they can't have that privacy on their PC.

Agreed, so you would say it is more so option 2 that I wrote above here. Interesting!

I'm also impressed by how many people demand android ports, which may point at creating official apks as a thing to really take into account when starting a project - not sure how many of those people would actually pay for them, though.

So this is something I have been noticing as well in forums - more people asking (or rather demanding) android ports. I'm really curious as to why these people want android ports and I'll be sure to ask them to comment here in the coming weeks.

You absolutely have a point when it comes to paying for APK's, I have no idea how many people are up for that. I myself have paid for APK's and am comfortable with it if the experience is guaranteed and you can support the developer. But after all, this is a space of the internet where things are often stolen or offered for free.

That said, most devs here are hobbists who develop their games on their PC, therefore their games are only optimized for PC because that's the device they can easily test their games on as they work on them.

That's another layer of the development hell indeed, you need to test your APK's before pushing them out to the masses. And Bluestacks might not be your best bet because it uses your computer resources. So because the game is developed on PC, it's also easier to test on PC. I think we can all agree with that.

If you want a functional and optimized android version, you'd need to plan ahead in terms of coding and image creation (and filesize), something that many devs never properly did because, well, on PC there are way fewer restrictions. Then, there are too many android devices out there, and each person has their own issues with memory, or other apps running in the background, or whatever, that are going to impact the game's performance;

Also definitely true, most PC's are far stronger than Android devices in terms of capabilities. So devs have more slack in terms of what they can get away with. When you go for Android, you're probably aiming at the mid tier phones. Quadcore 1.8Ghz, 4GB ram. That's far less than what you would find on most PC's. Ren'py isn't so much a demanding program, but with large amounts of content it can become a very demanding resource.

In my experience as a discord mod, they'll blame the dev first as soon as the apk crashes or doesn't run as smoothly as they wish. PC players might be annoying when it comes to saves, installing updates, or things like that, but the % of android users with performance issues easily exceeds those by an order of magnitude - and they'll also ask about saves and updates too. So the 'customer service' for them is really exhausting and takes time from other productive tasks.

This is also a issue that pops up with the Android territory indeed - more diversity in devices means more problems. You wouldn't want to be a developer and also have to tell people what they can do to run your game because it simply takes too much time off your hands. Definitely noted, you will need a team and a team often costs money. So there might be a bigger market, but there's also way more overhead to take care of. Thanks for including your experience as a Discord mod in here, that's really valuable information.

So, OP, ask your friend if he's willing to offer that service on top of the porting one, which is the easiest.

Honestly I had a thought-experiment yesterday - what if you offer developers to work on an Android port of their game and handle the technical portion of whatever comes with that decision? And you do that for multiple games, much like NIXXES does ports for Crystal Dynamics and Eidos? (Okay, they sometimes suck at it - but still, maybe it would be nice for developers)

Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Moskyx - made me learn a lot about keeping an android APK community!

 

[F4C430]

It raises a bigger question however - what's the need for Android ports if gamers are at home? Two options immediately jump to my mind:

1. Player doesn't own a PC and does own an Android phone, which allows player to still play the game
2. Player doesn't have access to privacy (due to family members or otherwise) or to a shared PC

3. Mobile devices are mobile. You don't need to be at your desk where the PC is. And laptops are not nearly as convenient as a phone/tablet unless you can use it as a tablet.
4. Mobile devices use touchscreen which can actually be more convenient to interact with than keyboard and mouse depending on the context and if you're sitting down vs lying down. I'm actually surprised there aren't more adult games designed to take advantage of touchscreens and gestures.

 

[Amorous Dezign]

Hi F95! Happy Easter! Looking for your knowledge and experience in understanding this topic better. I'll preface with context and then get to the question itself. If you're short for time, just go for the question.

Been here for almost a year, studying AVN's and developers. Played a couple dozen games, all kinds of engines. Been on the road recently and was made aware that Android versions of certain games were made. Tried about 20 - 25 of these and while some definitely aren't comfortable, I was amazed at how well most visual novels translate to Android devices (provided they have been optimized well enough). This led me to wonder the following question:


Why isn't releasing (A)VN's for Android devices a popular thing?

You must be registered to see the links

I ask this question because the interaction and form factor (especially with an android tablet) lends itself so well for laid-back (or one handed) gaming. People have been speaking about VN's on Android here for years - so there has to be a reason (or multiple) why it hasn't become a popular thing to do. Now outside of obvious limiting factors where some games require heavy input or demand strong hardware specifications, I am looking for what you think keeps it from becoming a more common option. Of course I have researched and though-experimented on this before asking your time, and a few options to consider arise:

1. Form-factor. It's harder to see things on a smaller screen. A developer will have to make sure the VN looks good and plays well on both small and big screens.
2. Income. Google probably won't let your AVN splatter all over the Store, so it's Patreon/Itch platforms offering the APK up. It's not easy install nor easy payment.
3. Security. Android still requires you to do the whole 'install from unknown sources' thing, which might be a barrier for non-technical users. Fornite went there though!
4. Compatibility. I found reports of old game engines not working 100% on new Android versions. Also, a PC screen is usually 16:9 - easier to optimize.
5. Habit. Most people develop for PC on PC. Big screen, mouse input - and screen size is virtually 13" to 60". It's easier to test and requires less effort.
6. Privacy. PC's are usually used privately, away from prying eyes. People usually use their android devices in public. If you fap to these games, you could fap in public for added suspense - but I'm not sure it's a great risk-reward balance.

Really looking forward to thoughts, ideas and comments by both avid players of VN's, developers, specific Android VN players and the like. Because this is a topic of opinion , I do ask people to try and be kind and respectful. There's probably not one clear-cut answer here, if there is even such a thing as an answer. For some developers it could be as simple as 'I hate Android because (XYZ)" and that's a fine reason. I however do want to hear your opinion because for me, in researching, it felt like something that could have been more popular. Thanks for your time and I look forward to your responses!

For your consideration (Extra context)
After trying out APK version of AVN's here, I even played a couple of these in public transport and public places to see what it was like. At first, I felt uncomfortable because I have a 10" screen and there's always that one sex scene that pops up out of nowhere. Eventually I got pretty comfortable with it, making sure I did my best to shield bystanders from seeing lewd stuff unwanted. I also tried a couple big budget VN's in comparison - which are a bit easier to play in public, admittedly - and because the experience was tailored to Android, it felt pretty good. Especially on mobile where it's more natural to shield people from looking at what you are doing. Doing all sorts of complicated taps (especially in sandbox games) can get kind of iffy on a smaller mobile phone though.

Have a complimentary imaginary coffee if you made it this far!

Spoiler: 'Imaginary Coffee!? Give me a better reward, you text-heavy peasant!'

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

A very serious matter.
I'm glad you brought me in the loop.
Although my own game falls mostly under the RPG category I have to say Android versions usually suffer from compatibility issues. Specially if the game is not initially intended for Android. In my personal experience the resolution difference or aspect ratio can be a bother. Another thing that hindered my efforts to provide am Android port for my game was the incompatibility of several Plugins from my engine in Android. I had to disable them which affected the game's visuals negatively.
A lot of my followers play the game using "Joiplay" which is an emulator for Android and there is a decent fan base for android players who would support such games, only if these issues are alleviated.
I think the whole legal marketplace issue of Android users is also an obstacle. such games can't be offered on big App Markets.