Why play with patreon

[baneini]

So, there's a new renpy/rpgm 3dcg game following Patreon's guidelines. No underage, no rape, no incest, no bestiality etc.
A game with porn themes that could be made a live action porn video from and put on pornhub, using 3dcg models you've seen before.

What is the reason you're going to play it and makes you want to hand money to the author? Something that makes it worthwhile to play when all the real life taboos are removed.

There is no game like that on popular games list and I don't see a future where an industry survives with those guidelines. It'd be like banning killing from regular games.

 

[Felicityskye]

So, there's a new renpy/rpgm 3dcg game following Patreon's guidelines. No underage, no rape, no incest, no bestiality etc.
A game with porn themes that could be made a live action porn video from and put on pornhub, using 3dcg models you've seen before.

What is the reason you're going to play it and makes you want to hand money to the author? Something that makes it worthwhile to play when all the real life taboos are removed.

There is no game like that on popular games list and I don't see a future where an industry survives with those guidelines. It'd be like banning killing from regular games.

For me the act of playing an game or reading a Visual Novel with choices, is not the same as watching a porn vid on Pornhub. Games and some Visual Novels give you the impression you are apart of what is going on because you have control. Regardless of the theme of the adult game as long as it is well made, they will get my money. Extreme themes or vanilla themes, people will always play games no matter what.

Themes and fetishes are always shifting. Porn in general has been around for a long time. Adult games will still be around for a long time. The industry will be just fine.

 

[uradamus]

They're only a problem if you rely on Patreon as your sole location to promote your game. If you promote your game off their site, so most of your potential patrons get their news about your game elsewhere like here, you can patch content in or out that doesn't meet their guidelines and let your followers know through channels outside of Patreon's control about the true state of the game. It really isn't that big a deal, just means a bit of extra work to get a sanitized version of your game and PR to post on Patreon itself. Still, I'd very much like to see a better replacement make it to market that perhaps doesn't use Paypal, so they can pull the stick out of their ass when it comes to policing content.

 

[whiskeyrose]

In the past, I gave a "donation" to Auril3d for her warcraft parody series which gave me access to the forums and to versions as they were being edited and released (at the time, it was a new version each week to 2 weeks.). At some point she reset donations and required you to re-donate again if you wanted in the club. I did not re-donate and have just waited for the full versions to come out.

At this point, nothing would make me put money towards a patreon project. Money is very tight and I have a million responsibilities that get funding attention first before porn games. On top of that, there are a bazillion patreons for whatever stupid smut game is being made on rpgmaker/renpy and they all release .1 versions and then limp out nothing for months. Even your heavy hitters like Summertime Saga, Superpowered, MILFYcity put out what, like one scene a month? I'm not saying they're bad project, but its in these projects best interests to just limp out updates as slow as possible, which they do.

Incest is the current flavor of the month for several reasons. Mostly because it's just within normal enough for people to fap to it, and also because hardcore fans of incest are willing to pay for porn of it. It's the reason why mainstream porn is doing so much "stepmom stepsister sibling aunt" porn now; Because for whatever reason that group that loves it will pay for it.

It's the same with gay furry porn. For whatever reason it makes fucking bank. I personally am not into it, but look at Breeding Season. Before it went tits up it was pulling in 20K a month.

 

[baneini]

Even your heavy hitters like Summertime Saga, Superpowered, MILFYcity put out what, like one scene a month? I'm not saying they're bad project, but its in these projects best interests to just limp out updates as slow as possible, which they do.

Thats the fault of the current system. There is no enabling legal system > visa/mastercard > platform like steam > publisher > dev > game that then goes to the user willing to pay using visa on steam to hand money to the publisher who funded the devs.

It's the same with gay furry porn. For whatever reason it makes fucking bank. I personally am not into it, but look at Breeding Season. Before it went tits up it was pulling in 20K a month.

Last theory I heard was theres lots of autists in STEM fields with lots of money to pay furry artists. I wouldn't put incest and that in same category, I think incest in games is convenient for various reasons.

 

[Fragmentation]

I never have contributed to a Patreon project and never will. All it does, imo, is encourage a bad business model. It doesn't spur on creativity, it incentivizes developers to contribute the least amount of effort over the longest amount time that they can get away with.

And I could probably count on one hand the amount of games that have reached even 3/4 of development, never-mind the tiny amount that have actually been finished.

 

[HopesGaming]

So, there's a new renpy/rpgm 3dcg game following Patreon's guidelines. No underage, no rape, no incest, no bestiality etc.

I do not believe that taboo is the only thing that interest people in adult games. Good story, gameplay etc can also play a major factor. I think it's more the fact that in 2017 (or 2016) there been some big success with taboo games which led other people to believe that they also should make taboo games.

Now taboo is, of course, the king of adult marked and people got used to it and feel like anything else is subpar. But like anything in life, there can come something new. Could be a new fetish, gameplay or whatever that becomes a mass success and then the meta changes towards that direction. Not many are willing to take that gamble tho. It's a big risk with almost no gain.

Or maybe I'm completely wrong, who knows haha.

 

[Gomly1980]

Considering all those things are banned on Patreon they don't seem to be losing any money.

Even with the changes the games people backed have barely lost any patrons.

People claim the sky is falling but it isn't. Things change, they always do.

Here's the thing, people think they have far more power than they actually do. I've seen people protesting the patreon changes by not giving them any money and the thing is ... patreon don't give a shit.

They would get along just fine if all H games were gone. Patreon is a multi million dollar business making money from all kinds of things from Youtube content creators to musician to budding artists. This is just one part of their business and you need them far more than they need you.

Without Patreon a developer has very limited options. Sure there are alternatives popping up but they will never see the number Patreon has for one reason and that is the reason behind most of these changes, Paypal.

Paypal is how a lot of us use our money online. It's easy, convenient and it's safe. I will never use my credit cards or bank details online especially with a Patreon alternative that's just starting up and I know nothing about. Paypal is my be all and end all of online payments and they have ALL the power.

I could use pre paid credit cards but that's an extra annoyance for me and none of the fetishes i'm into are banned so I have no reason to look elsewhere. The games I play are all fine. I know that's a selfish way of looking at things but i'm not about to hop on a crusade and stop backing the games I do, that's me losing out for someone else's cause and I don't care enough about the incest purge to lose out on my own enjoyment.

 

[redknight00]

Simple put: Patreon is the only option that offers safety, security and ease to both patrons and creators. They have some soft rules about content, but that's the least you'll get in any service using PayPal, and it's the only service I'd use.

 

[Kaffekop]

I apologize for going slightly off topic here, but it is only for a short while ... I hope.

I have a question, and it's been gnawing at me for some time now: Why do people keep on using Paypal and thus continue to support their way of doing things?

I mean ... I've been hanging around the internet since the early nineties, and I've never made use of Paypal. If I want to buy something, I use my credit card. Always have. Never once have I experienced any kind of problem with using my credit card in any way.
Well ... Sony got hacked a few years ago and that's the only time I've had an issue, but there was no problem getting my money back, when I talked to my bank.

I hope some of you will be able to enlighten me about this subject, because ... even when I read the arguments about convenience, ease of use and safe ... my brain does a twitch and I don't get why people see it as easier than just using your credit card.

You all have a good one.

Cheers - Kaffekop

 

[Dr PinkCake]

Simple put: Patreon is the only option that offers safety, security and ease to both patrons and creators. They have some soft rules about content, but that's the least you'll get in any service using PayPal, and it's the only service I'd use.

Don't know about Payoneer's stance on Patreon rules, but I use Payoneer over PayPal any given day. They are also the cheapest alternative if you transfer moderate to large sums.

 

[Gomly1980]

I have a question, and it's been gnawing at me for some time now: Why do people keep on using Paypal and thus continue to support their way of doing things?

I mean ... I've been hanging around the internet since the early nineties, and I've never made use of Paypal. If I want to buy something, I use my credit card. Always have. Never once have I experienced any kind of problem with using my credit card in any way.

Mainly because credit card fraud is a huge problem and it's not worth the risk.

You are also thinking about things wrong.

We're not doing it to support Paypal, we're doing it for our own peace of mind. Paypals stance on things does not bother me in the slightest.

You may not have had any problem with using your credit card online but plenty of people have including me and my wife which is why we'll never do it again.

When someone takes 9k out of your bank and it takes you 6 months of farcing around with a banks fraud department to get it back you'll understand why i'll never, ever, use my credit card online again.

My financial security is far more important to me than someone getting to rape their pixel family in a porn game. My family and finances will always come before someone else's patreon porn fetish.

 

[Kaffekop]

@Gomly1980
I just re read my post, and it did come off as if I was bashing people for using Paypal and being the cause of all the Patreon shit - didn't if?
Sorry about that. Not my intention!

I can understand your reluctance when something like that happens to you and that you get a little more careful about things in the future.

Thanks for taking the time.

Cheers - Kaffekop

 

[thecardinal]

I never have contributed to a Patreon project and never will. All it does, imo, is encourage a bad business model. It doesn't spur on creativity, it incentivizes developers to contribute the least amount of effort over the longest amount time that they can get away with.

And I could probably count on one hand the amount of games that have reached even 3/4 of development, never-mind the tiny amount that have actually been finished.

Today I learned that working my butt off all month to put out an update so I can earn $110 is uncreative and low effort.

I am not saying everyone should contribute on Patreon, but saying you will never pay while complaining about games being left unfinished is really foolish.

 

[Nottravis]

I never have contributed to a Patreon project and never will. All it does, imo, is encourage a bad business model. It doesn't spur on creativity, it incentivizes developers to contribute the least amount of effort over the longest amount time that they can get away with.

And I could probably count on one hand the amount of games that have reached even 3/4 of development, never-mind the tiny amount that have actually been finished.

Making -any- game takes time and effort. Even the little one I'm faffing around with has taken an age so although it -could- look like an update hasn't had much work put into I'd be surprised, assuming the Dev is playing straight, if that was the case.

Now you're right when you say there are a lot of duff games out there that fade away. But I suspect the reasons for them fading away range from the Dev wasn't up to it all the way to the Dev was losing money and time hand over fist for little return and everything inbetween.

But I am curious to know a) your thoughts on what the funding model should be and b) what model you would contribute to.

 

[Domiek]

I never have contributed to a Patreon project and never will. All it does, imo, is encourage a bad business model. It doesn't spur on creativity, it incentivizes developers to contribute the least amount of effort over the longest amount time that they can get away with.

And I could probably count on one hand the amount of games that have reached even 3/4 of development, never-mind the tiny amount that have actually been finished.

What can I do as a new developer to prove otherwise to someone who's taken a stance similar to yours? I understand that some developers provide updates slower than usual, but these games really do take a long time to develop as a one man team.

For example, I'm married with family commitments that take a portion of my free time along with the full-time career that takes a minimum of 40 hours a week. As a new dev, I'm making a few coffees worth of income a month (which is completely acceptable as all I have is a 0.1 out. This is going towards funding a dedicated rendering computer to speed up development as I (hopefully) gain more support over time.

I've already spent many weekday nights of 4 hours of sleep to try and push an acceptable amount of development for the next update. What can I do to show that I'm not just some lazy person who's motivated simply by money? Would a dev who has a completed game or two under their belt be worthy of a few dollars a month?

 

[uradamus]

Game development is very much a meritocracy. It's a bit harsh to say, but at the same time it's something I really like about all this. The better you are at creating something people enjoy, the more likely you are to attract paying customers. It's very unlikely anyone in it just for the money will get good enough to really catch people's attention or keep it for very long even if they managed to get lucky for a bit. Because getting good requires a ton of hard work and most looking for easy money will give up long before they get there.

A surefire way to progress in your abilities is to have an unquenchable passion for the work. That will lead you to constantly look for ways to do things better. If you really care about your game's quality, it'll show and people will eventually start to take notice and appreciate what you're doing. If you're putting in a minimal effort, that will show just as well and you'll have to deal with the consequences. Just keep in mind that it tends to take years to get really good at something, don't expect success over night, that's pretty rare.

 

[Fragmentation]

But I am curious to know a) your thoughts on what the funding model should be and b) what model you would contribute to.

What can I do to show that I'm not just some lazy person who's motivated simply by money? Would a dev who has a completed game or two under their belt be worthy of a few dollars a month?

I just don't put my money towards crowd-funding very small projects. There's just too much chance of them not becoming complete works. Whether it be because of the dev/devs taking on too much, or purposely trickling out content to milk their supporters, or simply burning out and losing interest, or any other number of reasons. Not to mention the fact is seems Patreon itself is trying to drive away adult games lately anyway.

I'd consider buying a finished product, maybe even giving a small tip before it was finished if it really seemed like it was worth it, but I'd never fund a game month-to-month hoping it becomes something when so many haven't.

 

[Nottravis]

@Fragmentation Thank you. I can understand where you're coming from now.

 

[gamersglory]

Don't know about Payoneer's stance on Patreon rules, but I use Payoneer over PayPal any given day. They are also the cheapest alternative if you transfer moderate to large sums.

Payoneer will close your account if they know the payments are for adult content

PROHIBITED TRANSACTIONS

1. You will not use the Payoneer Services or website for any illegal, fraudulent or other prohibited activity. If Payoneer suspects that you may be engaging in or have engaged in a fraudulent, illegal or prohibited activity, including any violation of these Terms and Conditions, your access to the Payoneer Services and website may be suspended or terminated. Additionally, depending on the severity of the violations, we may contact law enforcement.
2. It is strictly forbidden to make or receive payments as consideration for or in connection with:
   • Any illegal act;
   • Antiques and art;
   • Drugs, alcohol, or drug paraphernalia, or items that may represent these uses;
   • Obscene or pornographic items, adult businesses or adult related services, including escort services, adult massage, or other adult-entertainment services, adult performer regardless of sexual orientation;