Why so many fantasy games centered around goblins?

[SharkVampire]

My guess is that the goblins are some sort of ultimate ugly bastards that cater to the ugly bastard fetish, is that right?
Well, I say that I hate kinkshaming myself, but I genuinely don't understand why so many fantasy games use this race as a main theme.
There are so many races that people have created, why always use goblins? Orcs, demons, minotaurs, ogres, half dragons, your own race, for example. At the very least, it would look sexually appealing, something brutal dominating something fragile.

I generally not fan of ugly bastards, but I find this ugly monsters the most repulsive. Like they're not ugly, but they also somewhat resemble kids, with their tiny bodies and usually small dicks. I'm not kinkshaming now, just saying that is not appealing to me.
So, my question: where does the popularity of goblins in games come from? Why do we see almost no other fantasy races in adult games?

 

[khumak]

Goblins make a good generic bad guy. For most adult games they just look like muscular humans who might be green or might have some minor modifications like extra big teeth or something. I have never played one where the goblins were noticeably unattractive compared to a human and can't think of any reason someone would want to use something like that in an adult game. Most people want everyone involved in an adult game to be attractive. That means all of the guys, and all of the girls, whether good or bad unless they're never going to be part of a sex scene.

 

[EvolutionKills]

Goblins are largely treated the fantasy crossover between Ugly Bastard and Shota.

Games where they are the MC usually involve being the underdog, which can be fun when you you don't look like spackled shit. Games where they aren't the MC typically use them as a rape-horde. The only game I can think off of the top of my head that has lots of goblins and largely breaks away from these tropes is Seeds of Chaos. Quite a bit of content involves goblins of both sexes, and at least here the female ones are basically attractive green-tinted shortstacks (short, busty, and curvy).

Spoiler

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Also, the art is fan-fuckin'-tastic, and that helps a lot.

 

[Pretentious Goblin]

I have never played one where the goblins were noticeably unattractive compared to a human and can't think of any reason someone would want to use something like that in an adult game. Most people want everyone involved in an adult game to be attractive.

That might apply to the majority of Western games, but in Japanese ones goblins typically look like this. Actually, I see this asset used a lot in western 3D goblin games, and it looks like a dessicated octogenarian radioactive midget.

Of course, whenever there are female goblins anywhere, they're attractive shortstacks because we can't have a female ugly bastard in a game, now can we?

 

[Hagatagar]

Goblins are kinda interesting as antagonists in rape games, because in opposite to orcs, who are big, strong hunks, Goblins are not only hideous and malicious, but also small and weak, and yet they manage to overwhelm their victims (often through a numeric superiority).
And since they look and behave so differently than humans or orcs, it is easier to dehumanize them and one is more likely to accept abhorrent behavior from them.
I wouldn't even be surprised if some people perceive their sexual acts as a light (more aceptable) version of bestilality.

 

[Chalker]

Meaning Less needs to self-insert somehow!

 

[khumak]

That might apply to the majority of Western games, but in Japanese ones goblins typically look like this. Actually, I see this asset used a lot in western 3D goblin games, and it looks like a dessicated octogenarian radioactive midget.

Of course, whenever there are female goblins anywhere, they're attractive shortstacks because we can't have a female ugly bastard in a game, now can we?

Yeah every rule has it's exceptions I guess. I've seen adult games with zombies in them as well which I found odd. I don't care how hot the girls are if they're doing stuff with zombies. I'm out. It's different if it's something like a vampire that still looks hot.

Sure, technically she's dead but who cares?

 

[Gato21]

Yeah every rule has it's exceptions I guess. I've seen adult games with zombies in them as well which I found odd. I don't care how hot the girls are if they're doing stuff with zombies. I'm out. It's different if it's something like a vampire that still looks hot.

Sure, technically she's dead but who cares?

View attachment 2644292

Vampires are technically dead, but for all intents and proposes, they function as if they are alive. Zombies are just meat that's been left out of the refrigerator for too long; I can't stand them, even the cutesy abstract ones. Hopefully, we are reaching the end of their cyclical cultural zeitgeist and we can go back to vampires like it was in the nineties.

Of course, whenever there are female goblins anywhere, they're attractive shortstacks because we can't have a female ugly bastard in a game, now can we?

Perish the thought. Nope, we most certainly can't, as exemplified by this little gem of a game:

Goblin Layer

 

[ucantseeme3d]

Why do we see almost no other fantasy races in adult games?

Most japanese porn revolves around rape, and goblins and orcs are just (at this point) the stereotypical "rapist species", they are synonymous with the act. So they will always be a staple in hentai/eroge. It's even part of often used lore that they don't have females and can only reproduce with the females of other species. They are like the slimes of their fantasy genre. Just like there will always be a slime enemy in pretty much every fantasy anime/game you come across, there will always be goblin or orc enemies in pretty much every fantasy hentai/eroge you come across.

 

[SharkVampire]

That might apply to the majority of Western games, but in Japanese ones goblins typically look like this. Actually, I see this asset used a lot in western 3D goblin games, and it looks like a dessicated octogenarian radioactive midget.

Of course, whenever there are female goblins anywhere, they're attractive shortstacks because we can't have a female ugly bastard in a game, now can we?

and at least here the female ones are basically attractive green-tinted shortstacks

I always think of this image when it comes to girls of different races from fantasy universes.

Games where they are the MC usually involve being the underdog, which can be fun when you you don't look like spackled shit.

That's actually a good premise, I like when devs gives some challenges to player. But as I said, I just can't bring myself to like them in any way. I can think of one very good example of a game called The Shadow over Blackmore, in which you have to survive in a cruel, dark fantasy world with various evil female entities (It's a super violent femdom game) that not only want to make you suffer, but can do something even worse than death to you. I super liked the setting and overcoming the obstacles. It's just too bad I'm not that much into femdom (I can like only the soft one. Played it only because of the atmosphere and the story, but eventually gave up.) but, I really liked the approach, which I rarely see in porn games, where you really have to struggle through the game and it ties into the adult theme at the same time. In this game, you really had to think about the things you say and the offers other chars make to you. And choose your allies with cautious.

Goblins are kinda interesting as antagonists in rape games, because in opposite to orcs, who are big, strong hunks, Goblins are not only hideous and malicious, but also small and weak, and yet they manage to overwhelm their victims (often through a numeric superiority).

I've wanted to bring up this topic for a long time, but I wasn't quite sure how it would be received. Because people might think it's some kind of personal attack on their fetish. It feels like this race has become popular in recent years, or at least I don't remember so many games about them before. One day I saw almost four games posted in a week that were all about goblins. Look, again, I don't mind people jerking off however they want, it's just personally frustrating that the fantasy genre is one of my favorites and other races that I find interesting get a lot less attention.

I once used a search from a recent update and specifically searched for games in the fantasy and corruption genre. I can tell you that games with goblins are overwhelming. On the other hand, games featuring orcs, and especially those featuring orcs as the main protagonists, are few and far between. But not only that, I noticed that those authors who made games with goblins are really invested in their games, you can easily notice it by looking at the preview pictures and in the story descriptions.

Again, I'm just saddened to see it. One such game is called Grolokk. The first time I saw it, I liked everything about it, the art and the description and the genres, except for one thing - we have to play as a nasty goblin. Had there been an orc, or as I wrote any other brutal monster (other than Furry and Bestiality) I would have downloaded the game in a heartbeat. And of the games I found that weren't about goblins, the quality was much lower. The gameplay felt more primitive, and the graphics and dialogue were worse. One of my first favorite games in corruption genre was Noxian nights, there were no goblins, but there were minotaurs. I wasn't that degenerate back then, but even so, I didn't find the scenes with them repulsive. The other game that had orcs in the lead was Kingdom of Deception. Until Sierra Lee left the team, it was one of my favorite games of the genre. Not only were the scenes very hot, but the dialogue and story were captivating.

Hopefully, we are reaching the end of their cyclical cultural zeitgeist and we can go back to vampires like it was in the nineties.

I don't mind vampires, but the super overused and most of the plots involving them super generic. I found them boring to be honest. The only universe I care about and have always been interested in is World of Darkness. The clan system, disciplines and everything else was done a head above anything I've seen about vampires before.

P.S. Yeah, make fun of my nickname. Basically, it's meant to satirize how they're overused. As well as a variation on the fucked up shark movies, which for some reason made a huge amount of.

 

[Hagatagar]

It feels like this race has become popular in recent years, or at least I don't remember so many games about them before.
[...]
I can tell you that games with goblins are overwhelming. On the other hand, games featuring orcs, and especially those featuring orcs as the main protagonists, are few and far between. But not only that, I noticed that those authors who made games with goblins are really invested in their games, you can easily notice it by looking at the preview pictures and in the story descriptions.

I'd give two factors as the cause.

First the slow (western) demonsterfication of orcs, WoW was probably a big contributor to that (An entire generation grew up with the WoW depiction of orcs).
Which made orcs basically just hunkier, a bit wilder humans and no longer the savage monsters they used to be.

And second the publication of the manga/anime Goblin Slayer in 2016/2018.
In which the goblins are very rapey. And since goblins weren't really given much attention before, it gave them a sort of mainstream persona of being sex crazed.

Spoiler: Google Trends of the word Goblin and Ork

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And as I wrote in my other post, Gobins are different (small, weak, etc) than pretty much any other monster which of course makes them stand out even more.


I don't know how much of that is the cause, but it's at least a possible explanation.

 

[SharkVampire]

I'd give two factors as the cause.

First the slow (western) demonsterfication of orcs, WoW was probably a big contributor to that (An entire generation grew up with the WoW depiction of orcs).
Which made orcs basically just hunkier, a bit wilder humans and no longer the savage monsters they used to be.

And second the publication of the manga/anime Goblin Slayer in 2016/2018.
In which the goblins are very rapey. And since goblins weren't really given much attention before, it gave them a sort of mainstream persona of being sex crazed.

Spoiler: Google Trends of the word Goblin and Ork

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And as I wrote in my other post, Gobins are different (small, weak, etc) than pretty much any other monster which of course makes them stand out even more.


I don't know how much of that is the cause, but it's at least a possible explanation.

You probably right. However, I'm not sure Goblin Slayer is as popular as you make it out to be. I've read the manga and to be perfectly honest, it's only the first part that stands out. After that, it's just generic D&D style adventure.

And if you say that orks somewhat became the norm, as some sort of savage version of humans, with which I can probably agree, shouldn't it follow that they should be more popular with fantasy fans? Especially among fans of vanilla games, because that is a large part of the players.

 

[Hagatagar]

However, I'm not sure Goblin Slayer is as popular as you make it out to be. I've read the manga and to be perfectly honest, it's only the first part that stands out. After that, it's just generic D&D style adventure.

True. After all, the Google Trends shows that it only spiked, but the overall "interest" didn't rise as much (it still doubled).
But it surely sparked something new for those who are into monster porn/rape and those who wasn't before.
(I'll skip the comparison of the common manga/non-porn reader to the common hentai/porn reader)

And if you say that orks somewhat became the norm, as some sort of savage version of humans, with which I can probably agree, shouldn't it follow that they should be more popular with fantasy fans? Especially among fans of vanilla games, because that is a large part of the players.

Did the interest of orcs in vanilla games (without goblins) decrease? I don't know, I can't comment on that.
But if it is true that orcs are considered as just another kind of humans (and thus nothing special) then it would not be surprising.

But what I've noticed is an increase of female/futa/shemale orcs (probably not in games). Because muscular/fit women are experiencing a rise in popularity.

Spoiler: Shemale Orc

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[EvolutionKills]

That's actually a good premise, I like when devs gives some challenges to player. But as I said, I just can't bring myself to like them in any way. I can think of one very good example of a game called The Shadow over Blackmore, in which you have to survive in a cruel, dark fantasy world with various evil female entities (It's a super violent femdom game) that not only want to make you suffer, but can do something even worse than death to you. I super liked the setting and overcoming the obstacles. It's just too bad I'm not that much into femdom (I can like only the soft one. Played it only because of the atmosphere and the story, but eventually gave up.) but, I really liked the approach, which I rarely see in porn games, where you really have to struggle through the game and it ties into the adult theme at the same time. In this game, you really had to think about the things you say and the offers other chars make to you. And choose your allies with cautious.

Check out Seeds of Chaos pronto. It's a dark fantasy 'strategy' RPG and VN. There's little actual game honestly, just an explorable overworld map and some lite RPG elements that can effect the odds of conversation skill checks. Tactics Ogre this is not.

Anyways, the premise is that you're a now retired 'dirt general', a commoner-turned-hero who rose through the ranks and ultimately was instrumental in toppling a great demon army. Now many years later, and that demon lord's twin children abduct your wife and burn down your village, all as part of a power play to get you to work for them and help them do what their sire failed to. So while you're certainly a capable human of some renown, you easily come up short of the raw powers wielded by the demon twins that now control the fate of you and your wife. While you might be the commander of their forces, it is but a gilded cage that cannot hide the fact that you are now their slave.

It has a TON of content, with really a little bit of everything (and all of it optional/choice dependent). Want to play a noble hero who resists corruption, tries their best to subvert the goal of the twins, and stay faithful to your wife? You can do that. You could also embrace corruption, using the relative power and influence you do have to bend the world the the will of the twins, and fuck damn near everything that falls into your orbit as well. But whatever you do, there is always that Sword of Damocles hanging over your head, where the price for failure is a fate worse than death for you and those you love.

 

[SharkVampire]

Check out Seeds of Chaos pronto. It's a dark fantasy 'strategy' RPG and VN. There's little actual game honestly, just an explorable overworld map and some lite RPG elements that can effect the odds of conversation skill checks. Tactics Ogre this is not.

Anyways, the premise is that you're a now retired 'dirt general', a commoner-turned-hero who rose through the ranks and ultimately was instrumental in toppling a great demon army. Now many years later, and that demon lord's twin children abduct your wife and burn down your village, all as part of a power play to get you to work for them and help them do what their sire failed to. So while you're certainly a capable human of some renown, you easily come up short of the raw powers wielded by the demon twins that now control the fate of you and your wife. While you might be the commander of their forces, it is but a gilded cage that cannot hide the fact that you are now their slave.

It has a TON of content, with really a little bit of everything (and all of it optional/choice dependent). Want to play a noble hero who resists corruption, tries their best to subvert the goal of the twins, and stay faithful to your wife? You can do that. You could also embrace corruption, using the relative power and influence you do have to bend the world the the will of the twins, and fuck damn near everything that falls into your orbit as well. But whatever you do, there is always that Sword of Damocles hanging over your head, where the price for failure is a fate worse than death for you and those you love.

Thanks, but I played it a long time ago. While I really liked the story premise, I didn't like how it played out in the end. It's hard for me to tell all the reasons, though, as it was long time ago, but what has certainly stuck in my mind is that you're basically too tied to the twins, you almost can't make decisions on your own. In this particular story, I missed that. I wanted to be in charge myself and start acting on my own. Be the villain myself, overthrow the twins and become the dark lord, or be a good guy and fight corruption while trying to save your loved one. Another thing I remember that I don't liked is too much content that I have zero interest, such as gay. The NTR content was poorly done, IMO. As far as I remember, you basically making NTR yourself, playing for your wife, so it's kinda killing the interest and appeal to fight for her. I also remember that the gameplay component was pretty poorly done as well. All in all, the reviews that are out there for this game with a rating of two to three largely reflect my impressions of the game.

I needed to find a particular review that I had read a long time ago and agreed with so that I could make my answer more descriptive. Here is the quote:"The overall gameplay is mediocre at best. You wander a world map trying to find things to do and eventually roll a dice to see if you pull it off. It's forgettable at best and tedious at worst."

"Sluts are not war criminals. I feel like I shouldn't have to say it, but Seeds makes me feel like it needs to be stated. Just because Rowan and Alexia sleep around and cheat on each other does not mean that they'll suddenly enjoy rape or murder. Enjoying a big cock does not mean you desire the fall of civilization. Fucking a succubus or seven does not mean you must be down with a demonic uprising. It's really brutal to watch Rowan and Alexia become worse people as they like sex more. I understand that it probably made the game much easier to code, but it pretty much killed my appreciation for their characters."

"Overall, I feel like having the two of them fall to sexual corruption, even inevitable sexual corruption, while maintaining their morality would have made for a better character arc overall. It would also have allowed the main story to feature the two of them trying to save as many people as possible even as their bodies slow begin to belong to demons. In my opinion, the fun of a grim dark world is struggling against the grim darkness."

"the "good guy" path is basically rigged. No matter what you do, you just keep getting punished. The world can't ever get better through your choices. Your best result is less bad. The game doesn't feel like it's designed to truly have a good guy path, just brutal speed bumps if you struggle on your way to almost inevitable corruption."

I am aware that my position may not appear to be consistent. But that's how I feel, in some stories I want one thing, in others another. Although the idea of playing as a dark lord and gradually conquer the world appeals to me just as much. It's just that, in this particular story, I probably wanted something different. Elven conquest (First game) by pink tea is a good example, it's just too bad it's only focusing on training. But you can at least treat them well or badly, so it features routes, that is always welcome in my book.

 

[EvolutionKills]

Thanks, but I played it a long time ago. While I really liked the story premise, I didn't like how it played out in the end. It's hard for me to tell all the reasons, though, as it was long time ago, but what has certainly stuck in my mind is that you're basically too tied to the twins, you almost can't make decisions on your own. In this particular story, I missed that. I wanted to be in charge myself and start acting on my own. Be the villain myself, overthrow the twins and become the dark lord, or be a good guy and fight corruption while trying to save your loved one. Another thing I remember that I don't liked is too much content that I have zero interest, such as gay. The NTR content was poorly done, IMO. As far as I remember, you basically making NTR yourself, playing for your wife, so it's kinda killing the interest and appeal to fight for her. I also remember that the gameplay component was pretty poorly done as well. All in all, the reviews that are out there for this game with a rating of two to three largely reflect my impressions of the game.

I needed to find a particular review that I had read a long time ago and agreed with so that I could make my answer more descriptive. Here is the quote:"The overall gameplay is mediocre at best. You wander a world map trying to find things to do and eventually roll a dice to see if you pull it off. It's forgettable at best and tedious at worst."

"Sluts are not war criminals. I feel like I shouldn't have to say it, but Seeds makes me feel like it needs to be stated. Just because Rowan and Alexia sleep around and cheat on each other does not mean that they'll suddenly enjoy rape or murder. Enjoying a big cock does not mean you desire the fall of civilization. Fucking a succubus or seven does not mean you must be down with a demonic uprising. It's really brutal to watch Rowan and Alexia become worse people as they like sex more. I understand that it probably made the game much easier to code, but it pretty much killed my appreciation for their characters."

"Overall, I feel like having the two of them fall to sexual corruption, even inevitable sexual corruption, while maintaining their morality would have made for a better character arc overall. It would also have allowed the main story to feature the two of them trying to save as many people as possible even as their bodies slow begin to belong to demons. In my opinion, the fun of a grim dark world is struggling against the grim darkness."

"the "good guy" path is basically rigged. No matter what you do, you just keep getting punished. The world can't ever get better through your choices. Your best result is less bad. The game doesn't feel like it's designed to truly have a good guy path, just brutal speed bumps if you struggle on your way to almost inevitable corruption."

I am aware that my position may not appear to be consistent. But that's how I feel, in some stories I want one thing, in others another. Although the idea of playing as a dark lord and gradually conquer the world appeals to me just as much. It's just that, in this particular story, I probably wanted something different. Elven conquest (First game) by pink tea is a good example, it's just too bad it's only focusing on training. But you can at least treat them well or badly, so it features routes, that is always welcome in my book.

While some of that is legit (the unfinished gameplay), a lot of that is not. Once you're actually interacting with other people, the human leaders and power brokers? They're almost all awful people. Even if you're trying your best to maintain some semblance of the hero you were, it is in spite of human civilization, not because of it. Is the deck stacked against Rowan? Absolutely, that's kinda the point. The game is at it's most interesting when it is sailing through those morally grey waters. Which battles are worth fighting, which stands are worth taking; because it is a zero sum game and everything has a price.

I just think that whoever wrote those opinions just wasn't paying enough attention to all of the time and words spent on filling out Rowan and Alexia's motivations, and the pressures that are being applied to them. The line about 'the fall of civilization' is kinda hilariously hyperbolic. If you're paying attention to what the twins say (especially when they explicitly lay out their goals and motivations), they're not civilization ending genocidal maniacs. They're hedonists and autocrats, sure; but in some ways they're just more honest and out in the open with it than those whom they are fighting with. Rowan has a very legitimate axe to grind with the established people in power, who were more than happy to toss him aside once he had done his duty and was no longer useful. Also, anyone complaining about the heavy corruption dark path needs to remember that they picked the decision that got Rowan there. It's not the dev's fault if people weren't paying attention to the narrative people were choosing.

There not being an actual good path is not actually a bad thing. That person might be disappointed, but that doesn't make the game bad. It's a dark fantasy, you are a character placed in an awful position. Rowan isn't a Lawful-Good Paladin in a generic D&D campaign, he's a complex character haunted by his own failings and personal demons, trapped in an untenable position with no right answers and no end in sight. He's left trying to do the best he can with the hand he's been dealt. That is literally the whole point. If that isn't people's jam, that's fine; but it's not like the game was pretending to be what it wasn't. This isn't a fun adventure romp, and Rowan isn't a shonen-jump protagonist who can overcome all adversity with just enough grit and determination. Rowan can't save the world (so far), at best he can try to put his hand on the rudder of fate and try to nudge things to be less awful. There is no one to save him and Alexia, and stubbornly putting his foot down and opposing the twins at every turn will eventually result in a bad end; just like they threatened would happen, real shocker there.

There are many things to like about Rowan. He clever and resourceful, and can even be quite charming when needed. He's certainly a skilled tactician and scout, and more than a decent swordsman. But he's also trapped in magically enforced bondage, indentured to two beings who might as well be demigods, and the fate of his wife hangs in the balance. He's probably one of the least enviable protagonists on this site, maybe the most if you exclude those specifically designed to be nothing by misery sponges (e.g. those who exist only to be subject to humiliatingly cuckolding). He could very well be the most under under-dog.

 

[Artemissu]

Goblins are to hentai what zombies are to horror. In Todd Howard's words: "It just works"

 

[SharkVampire]

While some of that is legit (the unfinished gameplay), a lot of that is not. Once you're actually interacting with other people, the human leaders and power brokers? They're almost all awful people. Even if you're trying your best to maintain some semblance of the hero you were, it is in spite of human civilization, not because of it. Is the deck stacked against Rowan? Absolutely, that's kinda the point. The game is at it's most interesting when it is sailing through those morally grey waters. Which battles are worth fighting, which stands are worth taking; because it is a zero sum game and everything has a price.

I just think that whoever wrote those opinions just wasn't paying enough attention to all of the time and words spent on filling out Rowan and Alexia's motivations, and the pressures that are being applied to them. The line about 'the fall of civilization' is kinda hilariously hyperbolic. If you're paying attention to what the twins say (especially when they explicitly lay out their goals and motivations), they're not civilization ending genocidal maniacs. They're hedonists and autocrats, sure; but in some ways they're just more honest and out in the open with it than those whom they are fighting with. Rowan has a very legitimate axe to grind with the established people in power, who were more than happy to toss him aside once he had done his duty and was no longer useful. Also, anyone complaining about the heavy corruption dark path needs to remember that they picked the decision that got Rowan there. It's not the dev's fault if people weren't paying attention to the narrative people were choosing.

There not being an actual good path is not actually a bad thing. That person might be disappointed, but that doesn't make the game bad. It's a dark fantasy, you are a character placed in an awful position. Rowan isn't a Lawful-Good Paladin in a generic D&D campaign, he's a complex character haunted by his own failings and personal demons, trapped in an untenable position with no right answers and no end in sight. He's left trying to do the best he can with the hand he's been dealt. That is literally the whole point. If that isn't people's jam, that's fine; but it's not like the game was pretending to be what it wasn't. This isn't a fun adventure romp, and Rowan isn't a shonen-jump protagonist who can overcome all adversity with just enough grit and determination. Rowan can't save the world (so far), at best he can try to put his hand on the rudder of fate and try to nudge things to be less awful. There is no one to save him and Alexia, and stubbornly putting his foot down and opposing the twins at every turn will eventually result in a bad end; just like they threatened would happen, real shocker there.

There are many things to like about Rowan. He clever and resourceful, and can even be quite charming when needed. He's certainly a skilled tactician and scout, and more than a decent swordsman. But he's also trapped in magically enforced bondage, indentured to two beings who might as well be demigods, and the fate of his wife hangs in the balance. He's probably one of the least enviable protagonists on this site, maybe the most if you exclude those specifically designed to be nothing by misery sponges (e.g. those who exist only to be subject to humiliatingly cuckolding). He could very well be the most under under-dog.

I enjoyed reading how you interpreted it all, but unfortunately when I played the game itself, I didn't feel any of that. You write that Alexia's fate is on the line. However, you also play as her and can ensure that you have a pleasant time in twins adobe. For me, this is a minus, it would have been more interesting if there was only one main character and her fate was depended on his actions alone. As for the human leaders and communicating with them. I stopped playing this game long before them, back at the stage when you could only make an alliance with goblins and the review I referred to is written a bit later when the events in the capital were just being set up. So maybe the authors changed something in the story at this point.

Yeah, I like the morally grey characters too, but then again, it's hard for me to discuss the subject with you here, as I played the game a few years ago and just remember not liking a lot of things about it. At that time I even tried to start it a second time, after some long period of time, but still ended up deleting it. As you describe, the idea is very good and close to me, but from the game itself, I got a different feeling.