WIP Sample Images, Feedback & Suggestions Thread!

[Conviction07]

Hey everyone, a few weeks ago I started developing my own visual novel and I'm now at the point where I'm on the home straight of the image rendering stage of development (I've done about 130 with another 30 or so to go).

As you can imagine, or perhaps even know from experience, my perception of what looks good has kind of blurred after having looked at these images for countless hours.
To put it plainly, I basically hate it all...
So firstly, I'd appreciate any feedback on the character and location shots I've attached (there's a couple rooms and characters still in progress), and what tweaks I could make to them for when I head into 0.2.

Secondly, the game will have a more serious tone as I'm going for an espionage/thriller theme. Let's just say this isn't a fuck every girl type game, so just because she has a vagina doesn't mean the main character can sleep with her. Narrative is top priority.
This should give you an idea of how dark I'm going with it:


Because of this, and maybe I'm digging myself into a "my reach exceeds my grasp" hole, I'd like to implement game mechanics that reflect this theme and genre. Some type of detective mode, or lie detecting feature during key character conversations for example? I dunno, my brains fried...

So that being said, I'm all ears to your ideas.
All the images are below.

MAIN CHARACTERS


MAIN ANTAGONIST (DUDE WITH THE OPEN SHIRT IN THE MIDDLE)


MOST OTHER CHARACTERS


"DAY" LOCATIONS (WHERE ESSENTIALLY "VOLUME 1" TAKES PLACE)

 

[tooldev]

Oh well - i have bad news for you buddy. All your hate for your work is completely senseless . Those all look great

Overall very nice quality, nice locations and i i already like the variety of your actors.

 

[Conviction07]

Oh well - i have bad news for you buddy. All your hate for your work is completely senseless . Those all look great

Overall very nice quality, nice locations and i i already like the variety of your actors.

Thanks man! It’s encouraging to hear. I got nervous for a second when you opened with “bad news buddy”.

 

[redknight00]

If you want to hear bad words I can force myself and say that the torture render looks has weird nipples and the blood on the chest looks like it was sprayed over him instead of injuries.

Otherwise the models and renders look fantastic, especially for a few weeks worth of work.

 

[DarthSeduction]

Have you written the story at all yet? I ask, because while these images are all nice, they don't tell me anything. I see a lot of conversations with random people in various states of paying attention to the person behind the camera on a boat. It might just be that these are the images you've chosen, but seeing as you're also wondering about mechanics still, I'm afraid you're working backwards. The main thing you need to focus on at every step of development is narrative. If you're working alone, its fine if you don't write everything out first, but speaking from experience, its a lot harder to attach a narrative to images that loosely apply to your story than it is to build images that support your story.

As to how you might create an environment where the MC is able to determine if the person talking to him is lying, its in the art. Which speaks to my previous fears. You see, if you're able to build convincing expressions you can show the character is lying. As a result, if you build all the scenes around the script, then when you need to have the player determine if a character is lying to them, you'll display a scene where the person tells them their side of a story while looking down and to the left, or while twirling their hair and looking up. A somewhat convincing liar might stare the player down, never breaking eye contact, but have a nervous tick elsewhere, a finger tapping or something that you can have the MC notice.

A visual novel is a visual medium. You can absolutely create a game while ignoring everything I've just said, but it will never be as good as it could be if you make sure that every frame of the art has a greater purpose in telling the story.

 

[Zippity]

I agree with a lot of the stuff DarthSedition mentioned... If you're making a Visual Novel and not just some basic porn fest game, then you really need to knock out the story first, in some fashion... Don't piece mail it together as you go, otherwise you run a risk of messing up the plot balance, story continuity, and story pace... At a minimum, create an outline of the story elements from beginning to end, including any side stories, side plots, etc... You don't necessarily need to flesh it all out with the dialogue/monologue/inner monologue/story details, but you do need to have a reasonable amount of story direction/s and so forth... Going into it half-assed will just lead to issues later on...

Visuals in a Visual Novel are there to aid in telling the story, not to be the story... As to the facial emotions and body language, they can really help imply the mood, or reveal a feeling radiating from the character... So in the case of, how do you tell from a visual if someone is lying about something... It could be related in how they look off into space while lying, or directly into the protagonists eyes with conviction while telling the truth... Perhaps their mannerisms change to that of, seeming to be hiding something as they talk by looking down or acting nervous... Maybe looking either surprised or aggressive when caught in a lie... Lots of things can be portrayed in a visual from how the character looks and acts... Perhaps they are so good at lying you just can't tell purely from how they look visually... And so on... Use your imagination or watch some movies while paying close attention to their face and body language during situations you want to portray, to give yourself some inspiration...

Plus, once you get a fan base, I highly recommend staying away from allowing them any form of creative control over your story/plot... If you feel you want to have them engaged with development, offer up voting on window dressing items... Such as offering up several choices for a particular character model using choices you already pre-generated, or cosmetic stuff like character names, hair color/design, clothing options, and other stuff that is more visual and less related to the story/plot design/flow... If you give up too much creative control over story elements or plot elements, you run a high risk of all sorts of issues, just to please a few fans while alienating other fans, that may not necessarily being donating money towards your cause... Stick to your guns, and take comments (bad or good) with a grain of salt...

You also need to hash out right away, what game play style you intend to go with as a Visual Novel... You going the more pure Visual Novel route with occasional choices made... Or perhaps mixing lots of story but in a slightly open navigation grind style... Or maybe even going more of an adventure style interaction, with story revealed down multiple story lines playing out at the same time... The list goes on... You need to nail that down as well, because it will somewhat determine how your story needs to be written for the various types of story progression, which in turn will also help determine images needed... It can go from basic to intensely complex, depending on your plans... But you need to determine it up front...

 

[Conviction07]

Have you written the story at all yet? I ask, because while these images are all nice, they don't tell me anything. I see a lot of conversations with random people in various states of paying attention to the person behind the camera on a boat. It might just be that these are the images you've chosen, but seeing as you're also wondering about mechanics still, I'm afraid you're working backwards. The main thing you need to focus on at every step of development is narrative. If you're working alone, its fine if you don't write everything out first, but speaking from experience, its a lot harder to attach a narrative to images that loosely apply to your story than it is to build images that support your story.

As to how you might create an environment where the MC is able to determine if the person talking to him is lying, its in the art. Which speaks to my previous fears. You see, if you're able to build convincing expressions you can show the character is lying. As a result, if you build all the scenes around the script, then when you need to have the player determine if a character is lying to them, you'll display a scene where the person tells them their side of a story while looking down and to the left, or while twirling their hair and looking up. A somewhat convincing liar might stare the player down, never breaking eye contact, but have a nervous tick elsewhere, a finger tapping or something that you can have the MC notice.

A visual novel is a visual medium. You can absolutely create a game while ignoring everything I've just said, but it will never be as good as it could be if you make sure that every frame of the art has a greater purpose in telling the story.

I agree with a lot of the stuff DarthSedition mentioned... If you're making a Visual Novel and not just some basic porn fest game, then you really need to knock out the story first, in some fashion... Don't piece mail it together as you go, otherwise you run a risk of messing up the plot balance, story continuity, and story pace... At a minimum, create an outline of the story elements from beginning to end, including any side stories, side plots, etc... You don't necessarily need to flesh it all out with the dialogue/monologue/inner monologue/story details, but you do need to have a reasonable amount of story direction/s and so forth... Going into it half-assed will just lead to issues later on...

Visuals in a Visual Novel are there to aid in telling the story, not to be the story... As to the facial emotions and body language, they can really help imply the mood, or reveal a feeling radiating from the character... So in the case of, how do you tell from a visual if someone is lying about something... It could be related in how they look off into space while lying, or directly into the protagonists eyes with conviction while telling the truth... Perhaps their mannerisms change to that of, seeming to be hiding something as they talk by looking down or acting nervous... Maybe looking either surprised or aggressive when caught in a lie... Lots of things can be portrayed in a visual from how the character looks and acts... Perhaps they are so good at lying you just can't tell purely from how they look visually... And so on... Use your imagination or watch some movies while paying close attention to their face and body language during situations you want to portray, to give yourself some inspiration...

Plus, once you get a fan base, I highly recommend staying away from allowing them any form of creative control over your story/plot... If you feel you want to have them engaged with development, offer up voting on window dressing items... Such as offering up several choices for a particular character model using choices you already pre-generated, or cosmetic stuff like character names, hair color/design, clothing options, and other stuff that is more visual and less related to the story/plot design/flow... If you give up too much creative control over story elements or plot elements, you run a high risk of all sorts of issues, just to please a few fans while alienating other fans, that may not necessarily being donating money towards your cause... Stick to your guns, and take comments (bad or good) with a grain of salt...

You also need to hash out right away, what game play style you intend to go with as a Visual Novel... You going the more pure Visual Novel route with occasional choices made... Or perhaps mixing lots of story but in a slightly open navigation grind style... Or maybe even going more of an adventure style interaction, with story revealed down multiple story lines playing out at the same time... The list goes on... You need to nail that down as well, because it will somewhat determine how your story needs to be written for the various types of story progression, which in turn will also help determine images needed... It can go from basic to intensely complex, depending on your plans... But you need to determine it up front...

First of all, thanks for the lengthy responses, I don't know how you guys do it. So to address the story concerns, while I don't have it written out word for word, I do have a pretty solid outline of what 0.1 and 0.2 will contain. I also have a pretty clear vision of how this "Yacht Stage" of the game ends which is evidenced by the torture image I posted. I'll just say the story opens with a flash forward of this scene and then properly begins 2 weeks earlier. So the middle part, which I know is where the real meat of the plot is, I'm still working out. But I've always been pretty good at coming up with plot threads as I go along. And by the way, yes, I am developing this alone, which of course has its own plethora of both benefits and challenges.

Speaking to the provided images, they were intentionally just supposed show what the characters and locations would look like. But to be completely honest, there isn't too much more to show of most of these people since 0.1 is primarily focused on introducing the story and characters. Right now each character has about 4 or 5 different base expressions that will fit into pretty much any conversation. Naturally I'd be doing more complex ones if I decide to go down the "lie detection" route. Anyway, we'll really start getting into the nitty gritty of the characters motivations and deeper narrative in 0.2. I'm playing the long game, so right now I'm just setting the stage for what's to come so the first version will also be mostly linear in terms of choices. I want everyone to be on the same page at least in the beginning.

To specifically address what Zippity said about creative control, that's exactly what I was intending to do. Cosmetic stuff is open to change, while narrative stuff isn't. I've seen too many games end up being compromised by the opinions of the few vocal players. I'm speaking thematically and overall plot direction of course. If the writing is just plain bad then I'd obviously be willing to rectify that...

Finally, Here's the basic idea of how the game will play. The yacht the game takes place aboard is a hub that you can move around in. The images I posted are actually the base locations that will have characters layered over it depending on the time of day. So there will be a night time version of all these areas to. Since this part of the game does take place aboard a Yacht that's on course, time is a factor. Each version will encompass a 2 day period (approximately) that will be filled with several events. There will literally be zero grinding. So because of the forward momentum of the plot, you'll never get lost or have to wait a week to unlock the next stage of an event. You all know what games I'm referring to that do this.

 

[DarthSeduction]

Finally, Here's the basic idea of how the game will play. The yacht the game takes place aboard is a hub that you can move around in. The images I posted are actually the base locations that will have characters layered over it depending on the time of day. So there will be a night time version of all these areas to. Since this part of the game does take place aboard a Yacht that's on course, time is a factor. Each version will encompass a 2 day period (approximately) that will be filled with several events. There will literally be zero grinding. So because of the forward momentum of the plot, you'll never get lost or have to wait a week to unlock the next stage of an event. You all know what games I'm referring to that do this.

That changes things a little... and based on your art it was something I was worried you were planning. What this means is that your game will play more like a Life Sim than a Visual Novel. It'll be interesting to see how you manage this. Normally, for someone building a life sim, I'd suggest that they design a core narrative for the MC and then separate narratives for each of the romantic lines. In this, what I'd suggest is taking a look at a game like Life is Strange, or LA Noir. In both you are able to advance the story with the information at hand, but the story goes better if you have more information. Knowing as much as you can before you get put into the situation of needing to confront someone will almost always make it easier to move forward on the best path.

So what you'll want to do is design a lot of clue searching minigames, where you find and analyze various elements of data throughout the ship. Where you remember key things you learn in conversations. You'll have to design a system that tracks this data somehow, probably simple flags and whatnot, but also create a believable interrogation system, so that you'll not raise the suspicions of the people who you're pumping for info or make them unperceptive by being wrong too often. To be quite honest you've got a lot on your plate making this game. That said, I look forward to having a chance to play it. Sounds like a great game.

 

[Zippity]

First of all, thanks for the lengthy responses, I don't know how you guys do it. So to address the story concerns, while I don't have it written out word for word, I do have a pretty solid outline of what 0.1 and 0.2 will contain. I also have a pretty clear vision of how this "Yacht Stage" of the game ends which is evidenced by the torture image I posted. I'll just say the story opens with a flash forward of this scene and then properly begins 2 weeks earlier. So the middle part, which I know is where the real meat of the plot is, I'm still working out. But I've always been pretty good at coming up with plot threads as I go along. And by the way, yes, I am developing this alone, which of course has its own plethora of both benefits and challenges.

Speaking to the provided images, they were intentionally just supposed show what the characters and locations would look like. But to be completely honest, there isn't too much more to show of most of these people since 0.1 is primarily focused on introducing the story and characters. Right now each character has about 4 or 5 different base expressions that will fit into pretty much any conversation. Naturally I'd be doing more complex ones if I decide to go down the "lie detection" route. Anyway, we'll really start getting into the nitty gritty of the characters motivations and deeper narrative in 0.2. I'm playing the long game, so right now I'm just setting the stage for what's to come so the first version will also be mostly linear in terms of choices. I want everyone to be on the same page at least in the beginning.

To specifically address what Zippity said about creative control, that's exactly what I was intending to do. Cosmetic stuff is open to change, while narrative stuff isn't. I've seen too many games end up being compromised by the opinions of the few vocal players. I'm speaking thematically and overall plot direction of course. If the writing is just plain bad then I'd obviously be willing to rectify that...

Finally, Here's the basic idea of how the game will play. The yacht the game takes place aboard is a hub that you can move around in. The images I posted are actually the base locations that will have characters layered over it depending on the time of day. So there will be a night time version of all these areas to. Since this part of the game does take place aboard a Yacht that's on course, time is a factor. Each version will encompass a 2 day period (approximately) that will be filled with several events. There will literally be zero grinding. So because of the forward momentum of the plot, you'll never get lost or have to wait a week to unlock the next stage of an event. You all know what games I'm referring to that do this.

To add on to what Darth said above... When I talked about planning ahead with the story... You want to plan out the story, at least in skeletal outline format, all the way to the end of the whole thing, not just a couple versions into it... You can always alter it as you go, but having a longer view ahead will help immensely with all the things I mentioned before... I'm always a firm believer of plan ahead, and don't just make it all up as you go along... Only planning a couple content releases ahead for the over all story and plot/s, is taking a risk of either running out of ideas half way through, or having story gaps, and the list goes on...

Sounds like you're not going the traditional Visual Novel route, but adding in a selection of navigation locations with a form of limited freedom... Allowing the protagonist to move freely between a set of available locations, depending on where the story goes, with interactions depending on story progression with one or more characters... Following a linear progression but in the guise of free choice... Perhaps more like a story led adventure game? Let me know if I'm off base...

 

[Conviction07]

To add on to what Darth said above... When I talked about planning ahead with the story... You want to plan out the story, at least in skeletal outline format, all the way to the end of the whole thing, not just a couple versions into it... You can always alter it as you go, but having a longer view ahead will help immensely with all the things I mentioned before... I'm always a firm believer of plan ahead, and don't just make it all up as you go along... Only planning a couple content releases ahead for the over all story and plot/s, is taking a risk of either running out of ideas half way through, or having story gaps, and the list goes on...

Sounds like you're not going the traditional Visual Novel route, but adding in a selection of navigation locations with a form of limited freedom... Allowing the protagonist to move freely between a set of available locations, depending on where the story goes, with interactions depending on story progression with one or more characters... Following a linear progression but in the guise of free choice... Perhaps more like a story led adventure game? Let me know if I'm off base...

The navigation is esentially much like Big Brother where almost every room is available to visit at any time during the day. During these hours there will be optional conversations with characters and perhaps mini events that aren’t essential to the story progression but will hopefully add more depth to it primarily in terms of character development.

Now let’s say we have a story mission set for 2pm on day 2. Because time is a factor (I’m thinking the yacht takes 8 days to reach its destination), you won’t very well be able to click “wait” at 2pm, skip the event and just circle back to it the next day or week ala Big Brother. So when 2pm does come around, my idea was to disable the “wait” button until you initiate and complete the event. Where you’ll have to go to initiate said event will be indicated by the room button on the bottom of the screen glowing gold.
Once you’ve completed the event, freedom will open up again until say maybe 8pm when another event will occur.

Hopefully what I wrote makes some sense...

 

[DarthSeduction]

The navigation is esentially much like Big Brother where almost every room is available to visit at any time during the day. During these hours there will be optional conversations with characters and perhaps mini events that aren’t essential to the story progression but will hopefully add more depth to it primarily in terms of character development.

Now let’s say we have a story mission set for 2pm on day 2. Because time is a factor (I’m thinking the yacht takes 8 days to reach its destination), you won’t very well be able to click “wait” at 2pm, skip the event and just circle back to it the next day or week ala Big Brother. So when 2pm does come around, my idea was to disable the “wait” button until you initiate and complete the event. Where you’ll have to go to initiate said event will be indicated by the room button on the bottom of the screen glowing gold.
Once you’ve completed the event, freedom will open up again until say maybe 8pm when another event will occur.

Hopefully what I wrote makes some sense...

It makes sense but also breaks the game. You don't want to hold the player's hand in a game like this. Ideally, the player would only know that they have to talk to someone at 2 pm on this day because they found some clue that leads them to that conclusion. In reality, if you make it to the end of the 8 days and miss that, it should result in a bad end.

 

[Conviction07]

It makes sense but also breaks the game. You don't want to hold the player's hand in a game like this. Ideally, the player would only know that they have to talk to someone at 2 pm on this day because they found some clue that leads them to that conclusion. In reality, if you make it to the end of the 8 days and miss that, it should result in a bad end.

Yeah, I don't wanna hold their hand but I also can't guarantee they wont accidentally skip the event, because that would really break the game. Somehow I have to come up with a way of guaranteeing the player won't skip the event while also giving them the illusion that they initiated it on their own. This could be challenging.

 

[DarthSeduction]

Yeah, I don't wanna hold their hand but I also can't guarantee they wont accidentally skip the event, because that would really break the game. Somehow I have to come up with a way of guaranteeing the player won't skip the event while also giving them the illusion that they initiated it on their own. This could be challenging.

Or let them skip the event. Make that cause a mission failure as they finish out the 8 days. Make it so that not all the events are linked. Make it so that you need to follow 3 different event chains, and if you miss one chain, you might not notice, but in the end you'll lose.

 

[Conviction07]

Or let them skip the event. Make that cause a mission failure as they finish out the 8 days. Make it so that not all the events are linked. Make it so that you need to follow 3 different event chains, and if you miss one chain, you might not notice, but in the end you'll lose.

I think what I’ll do is just have crucial plot development stuff trigger automatically and all the investigative stuff be potentially missable. The punishment of missing these things won’t be as severe as a game over, but I’ll come up with some narrative impact for doing so. It could be a cool concept if I can pull it off, because it would really force the player to pay attention to their surroundings and whether or not anything is askew.

 

[The-real-Vastitas]

I'm going for an espionage/thriller theme. Let's just say this isn't a fuck every girl type game, so just because she has a vagina doesn't mean the main character can sleep with her. Narrative is top priority.

There will literally be zero grinding

That sounds like some much needed diversion from the usual formula and while I am not exactly a fan of 3D the praise weights even more when I say your characters have a unique look...very well done feels like a fresh wind looking at these sample pics.
Concerning the narrative decision of "missable" content hints or thoughts like "I feel like I could miss something if I do that now" could do the trick...if ignored certain optional events won't happen awarding the player with invested interest.

The punishment of missing these things won’t be as severe

...but especially with the espionage theme some crucial help which is not given because the player ignored optional content could enhance the experience...in any way I am looking forward to a demo and stop looking at your sample pics now before I

hate it all...

too