Writing dialogues in a non-native language

[Re-boner Ocelot]

Hi, I am a game developer and It gives me a lot of trouble that English is not my first language. It takes me a huge amount of time to write the dialogues for my game because I try to write them in English right away, I think that way I'll learn it faster, so someday I won't need any translator. But now I do. I combine my own knowledge with the use of the DeepL and then I also run the text through Grammarly.

And I'm wondering how other people do it, do they write all their dialogues entirely in their native language so that they can just translate them all in one go (including using translation services). Or maybe a perfect translator has already been invented that translates any text without mistakes and everyone already using it, but I just don't know about it.

So, just wanted to know how you guys dealing with translation and what tools are you using.

 

[moskyx]

I'd say most non-English speakers who release games in English use basically the same model you're describing: their own grasp of that language and then a little bit of Deepl or any other machine translator, and that's all - because the perfect machine translator is yet to be created. Players are somewhat used to Engrish so as long it's not plainly terrible you could get away with it, you'd still get some harsh comments but most people will just accept it.

But if you're really interested in releasing your game in a proper English, then the way to go is hiring a professional translator (who usually charge a lot per word) or at least asking some native speaker to work as editor/proofreader of your English texts and just trust in them. Be aware that they are not that easy to find even in this forum (I know some dev who asked for one and was ghosted by a couple of them after reaching an agreement and sending them the game). So basically it's the same problem you might find when looking for an artist or a coder to join your team: there are 'lots' of people offering their services but you can't really know for sure if they are skilled and serious enough before actually working with them. So it's definitely going to cost you some time, some annoyances and possibly a little bit of money too.

 

[anne O'nymous]

But if you're really interested in releasing your game in a proper English, then the way to go is [...]

A possible other option is to release it "as it" and wait.
While, as you said, proofreader one would find by himself aren't necessarily reliable, there's also among the community people who are willing to really help. If the game reach some success, and reach the rights persons, there's some people who PM you to, gently, give you some correction, for this or that dialog. And through the discussion, they give you some advice, correction for errors that where less obvious. And, why not if you seem nice and that it worth it, one day you find in your PM box a file with the corrections for the whole update you just released. Then you can ask them if they want to help more, against some compensation.
Generally those persons will be more reliable, because they do the proof reading not for the compensation, but because they like the game/story and want to help it, and you, to be at its best.

 

[moskyx]

A possible other option is to release it "as it" and wait.
While, as you said, proofreader one would find by himself aren't necessarily reliable, there's also among the community people who are willing to really help. If the game reach some success, and reach the rights persons, there's some people who PM you to, gently, give you some correction, for this or that dialog. And through the discussion, they give you some advice, correction for errors that where less obvious. And, why not if you seem nice and that it worth it, one day you find in your PM box a file with the corrections for the whole update you just released. Then you can ask them if they want to help more, against some compensation.
Generally those persons will be more reliable, because they do the proof reading not for the compensation, but because they like the game/story and want to help it, and you, to be at its best.

Absolutely right. Blaming myself now for not having thought on that considering that's how I usually proceed with my translations (and yeah, a compensation is nice but not what fuels us... actually I'm yet to be offered a compensation at all but that's another topic )

 

[woody554]

the problem with hired human translations often is that you really want a writer not a translator. even if you wrote amazing dialogue in some other language, the translator can make it only AS good as his writing skills. which for most people means even much worse than the general dumbass here. it might not have grammatical errors (if you're lucky), but it's still gonna be shit if it's not done by a writer. if you're going that way, best would be looking for a native speaking writer instead of a translator.

otoh, that's kinda going unnecessarily far in this genre where none of us can produce good dialogue even in our native languages. the best we have are mediocre hobbyists. fan-fiction -good, not actual good. so anything you do, it's still almost always just a futile exercise at polishing a turd.

also what someone else said, we're all kinda used to engrish and bad writing in here. it doesn't have to be perfect, it doesn't even have to be mediocre. as long as you can get your story through to your player it's good enough. if you can produce the kind of text as in OP that's already above the 50% here.

in fact it would probably do most devs here a lot of good trying to tell your story without being so focused on text. get away from those 'standing heads saying things', and instead create renders that tell the same story. if your picture tells you what's happening, who this person is (a lavishly dressed princess) and who that person is (a poor beggar with a mean smile, boner in pants, holding a bottle of chloroform behind his back)they could be talking about weather and you'd still know he's trying to kidnap the princess to keep her as a sex slave in his basement in the woods. the story should be in the image not the dialogue, mostly. and often it's even better if the dialogue contrasts the image, as in the beggar promising he'll help the princess and princess responding "oh thank you, you're so kind".

so while it's nice to have correct text, it's only the lowest form of writing, and will NOT compensate for failing to tell a story. and if your actual STORY is interesting and you get it through to audience, it really doesn't matter how bad your grammar is. just use simple short words, avoid complicated sentence structures, keep it short and you should be fine.

we've all read tons of HIDEOUSLY translated japanese comics and VNs, and did it ever stop us from becoming a fan of whatever smut was offered? no. we read between the lines, we figure it out.

 

[woody554]

for the actual question... english is my fourth language, and while it's been 30 years since I learned to write correct english, very early I found it's just not enough. the real problems are NOT grammatical but related to storytelling. and storytelling is the same in all languages, it speaks in the language of emotions, anticipation, foreshadowing, revelations and journeys. not grammar, not semantics, not in ortography of any kind.

so I just write, try to not make mistakes, but also try not to get stuck in the text. there will be mistakes but they're rarely important. get the story out.

except if you're writing a character whose VOICE is fundamentally based on speaking correctly. like a teacher, she MUST speak correctly. and if you can't do it just avoid such characters. a stupid teenager can speak as incoherently as you like, we've all seen how people often can't write an understandable sentence even if their life depends on it.

so choose your characters wisely and you're already there. plan well.

 

[Re-boner Ocelot]

for the actual question... English is my fourth language, and while it's been 30 years since I learned to write correct english, very early I found it's just not enough. the real problems are NOT grammatical but related to storytelling. and storytelling is the same in all languages, it speaks in the language of emotions, anticipation, foreshadowing, revelations and journeys. not grammar, not semantics, not in ortography of any kind.

so I just write, try to not make mistakes, but also try not to get stuck in the text. there will be mistakes but they're rarely important. get the story out.

except if you're writing a character whose VOICE is fundamentally based on speaking correctly. like a teacher, she MUST speak correctly. and if you can't do it just avoid such characters. a stupid teenager can speak as incoherently as you like, we've all seen how people often can't write an understandable sentence even if their life depends on it.

so choose your characters wisely and you're already there. plan well.

Wow, I'm new here, so I couldn't even think that some people will write such amounts of text about writing on a hentai forum. I seem to have the wrong impression and there is a much broader diversion of people here than I thought.

And, you know, your "just write" really got me thinking. Because I think my main problem is that I just tend to, like you said, "stuck" in the text. It's not a translation problem, but a writing one. And with all my little experience in several developing areas, I can say that they are all quite the same. I mean, drawing, writing, programming, etc., they are all different on the surface, but they work the same way because our brain is processing all of these spheres in the core.

I can just transfer my drawing experience to writing texts. For example, when I finish some lineart, I never start to colour it right away, just because I got so caught up in all the details and stuff, that I can't see the bigger picture, sometimes I get really "stuck" with it.
But if you leave all your sketches or lines as it is and just go to sleep, the next day with a fresh head you can look at all your art, close your eyes, take a deep breath and say "What the f is this? Why is this head bigger than the torso, why are these knees bending in opposite direction, it doesn't look human at all, neither an animal, now I definitely will have nightmares for a few months".

So if we assume that text is a sketch, then I'll just do it my artist way: just write a lot, write fast, maybe even write different variations of the same sentence, try something new and of course, sleep. And what's important, I think it will be better if I will write in Russian (my mother tongue in case I didn't mention it before). Just because I'm mixing language learning with writing, and again, with my artist experience, mixing different tasks is a way to punish your brain, not a way to progress faster. So I can float through my language and focus entirely on the narrative without being interrupted by not being able to translate something. And if someday I'll want to improve my translation, I will already have all the dialogues written at my best and all I need is just a good translator (and so is the writer).

I don't know if it's a good reply, this was written more for me to put it all in my head. But as for reply, I just want to thank you. You and the other guys above. Sometimes we are really just stuck with something.

 

[SpoiledPrince]

Writing in English has been the most challenging part of my Dev experience and the main factor behind the delay of the game as a whole. A couple of diplomas made me overestimate my actual capabilities by far, even if I should have known from the start that producing a couple of 500 writings for an exam could not compare to elaborating a 300k-plus-words Behemoth of a first-release.
On the other hand, it has helped me improve my English a great deal, for which I'm grateful.
I don't fool myself, it's still lacking both fluidity and naturalness, but some progress has been made nonetheless.

I started my journey writing in my mother tongue and translating it on my own with the help of a very patient proofreader, but I soon came to the conclusion that I was wasting time working twice. It wasn't efficient. That's why I settled on writing directly in English despite the longer time and huge effort it takes for a non-native, as you stated. It's an investment in myself, and that will remain long after the project is finished (or abandoned, even).
In the end, you have to choose which weights more on your scale, whether it is providing players with fast releases or quality entertainment; because only exceptional people or big, experienced teams manage to offer both.

 

[Mimir's Lab]

One aspect I'll go over that other people haven't mentioned, is that some things, whether phrases or concepts, don't translate well, or at all, to other languages and cultures. There are subtle differences between languages that can change the meaning of words drastically when translated literally. You need to have a translator who understands both languages and their respective cultures, and understands the author's intent, to provide a decent translation that conveys the same meaning as the original. English is better understood by non-English speakers than other languages by English-only speakers because there are more avenues, namely movies and video games, where you can connect culture to language and understand both with the correct context. It's why machine translations suck; they try to make literal translations of each word with minimal consideration for cultural differences. If you asked a person how to say something in a different language, they'd probably give you two ways of saying it: the literal translation of what you wanted and a translation that more closely matches what you intended to say. In this way, I think it's pretty difficult for someone who's raised in a monoculture environment to provide accurate translations. Translations aren't just changing words from one language to another, it's also establishing to the audience the correct context in which those words were said.

 

[PTSdev]

I'm currently working on a game and I've already written lots of text in English for it. As English is not my mother tongue, there might be some errors, but I just don't want to write a smut game in my native language (German). German REALLY sucks when it comes to talking about sex. As for the process: When I'm writing, I entirely think in English. Translating doesn't work for me. Dialogue comes kinda naturally, writing descriptive text is much harder for me.

The really hard part is getting cultural references right. I've lived in the US for a few years, but that's only helping in a minor way. You can't emulate the instinctive part of using a language.
Personally, I really like the challenge, but I'm fully aware of my shortcomings. Once the project is ready for release, I hope to get some proof readers / alpha testers.

 

[Jofur]

I might be alone in this, but I pretty much only use my native language for communication. For me it's enough to be understood and professional. Whereas I more or less only do creative writing in English. I'm not especially great at it or anything but it's never been a struggle, and arguably even easier. To be fair however, I'm Scandinavian and my language is pretty similar to English and it's very easy to learn.

there might be some errors, but I just don't want to write a smut game in my native language (German).

I'm with you there, I can't even take a drama movie seriously in my own language because it sounds so fake and unreal, erotica would just make me laugh.

 

[Carrera]

Everything I think I think in Italian, I literally have to force myself to write/type/and speak in English on the fly. I can actually speak English pretty good by some accounts,,,, I do use to and Too interchangeably though. (or not at all)

That's what proofreaders are for.