CREATE and FUCK your own AI GIRLFRIEND TRY FOR FREE
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Huge majority of porn developers here nowadays don't even care and just want money for little work!

Wankyudo

Member
Jul 26, 2017
179
489
mmmm - peanut butter and jelly

(we are talking real peanut butter and jelly - that's not some sort of sexual fluid euphemism I've just signed up to ?)
Not a euphemism, and arguably not real peanut butter and jelly. I mean...we not that up good. It ain't Jif peanut butter, it's gif and the jelly is shmugs instead of shmuckers
 

jamdan

Forum Fanatic
Sep 28, 2018
4,357
23,381
I get you're parodying the OP, but where's your evidence for this?
Honestly? It can't be proven. But I do think it is true. After all, this is a piracy site and a tiny portion of us actually buy/patronize games. Or else the typical developer would make more than pocket change, as they do now.

Just like developers milking cannot actually be proven, but we all know certain developers do it. Not anywhere close to a "huge majority" though.

I'll also amend my comment to be less-parody like and say " The majority of people who whine about "milker devs" have never actually paid for the games they are now accusing the developer of milking."

People accuse developers of milking even if they don't make enough money to milk. People accuse developers of milking even if they don't charge people. People accuse developers of milking even when the updates for the game, while taking a while to update, are very large updates. Etc.

So as I said, most people who accuse developers of milking are mad about update times. No more, no less.
 
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Jokr_

Member
Feb 23, 2020
376
544
bro who cares, i haven't paid even a single penny to any of them just enjoy the content for free here lmao
 

Alboe Interactive

Well-Known Member
Game Developer
Apr 19, 2020
1,142
2,374
But if you sub to a project like the above on Patreon, even if you unsub the very next month, you've still just given $x to a project just to test the waters. And how many months, or years, would it take for them to figure out that devs like Helius are perhaps not spending those funds as intended?

That just isn't a particularly desirable model for consumers. Those consumers will get annoyed and they will either exit the market entirely, reducing the potential customer base for devs like yourself, or they will heavily criticise devs moving forward out of a sense of paranoia that they may be doing the same. Which is exactly what you see with threads like these.
I'm testing out an alternative model:


Full Article:

View attachment 2182913

First of all, I want to thank all my supporters, including the former ones. Your support has enabled me to acquire an RTX 3060, which I will be using to render my visual novels in 4k. This new capability is all due to your contributions. I have updated the tiers to include a 4k version for Tier 18 and the rest of the tiers will have access to 1080p as before. In addition, as a tier benefit, Tier 18 gets an key to the 4k version, and Tier 3 gets a key to the 1080p version (this tier benefit replaces the comic benefit). Having one of these keys means you gain permanent day 1 access to new releases regardless of your current supporter tier or status. However, there is a way for those not in those tiers to get a key as well.

I am going to be giving away keys for Ménage à Moi to former and active supporters of any tier that have met certain criteria. To be eligible, you need to have paid a lifetime total of $15 to get a key to the 4k version. Or if you paid a lifetime total of $10, you'll receive a key for the 1080p version. This offer ends on January 1st, 2023.

I'll make a follow-up post about the redeeming process after the release of chapter one of Ménage à Moi.

-

The next bit of news is I'm going to have to use the contingency plan I laid out in and aim for the complete chapter 1 of Ménage à Moi to be out by New Year's Eve. While I now have an RTX 3060 ( ), I've had major delays due to real-life stuff. My family member is finally out of the hospital after being in there for over 3 weeks. But they aren't in good enough condition to return home yet and are still undergoing physical therapy in a rehab facility. Also, I got a new job that required a lot of prep work before I even started. Both ongoing events have drained my available time away from my projects for the past several weeks.

A major reason I wanted to give out keys is that I know I'm still far from consistent regarding a release schedule. While the circumstances like these delays are out of my hands, I still don't want supporters to feel forced that they have to continue paying or lose out. I reckon that as long as anyone has paid the same amount as if they had bought my game in any other online store, why shouldn't they own a copy?

/ End of Article
Basically, I'm trying to combine retail sales and subscriptions into one. People who want to continue to support me for the monthly tier benefits can continue to do so. Those who want to pause or stop altogether can walk away with something rather than nothing.
 

BlargFTW

Newbie
Apr 8, 2020
18
39
This whole issue would stop if people would quit paying devs to be alpha/beta testers instead of the other way around. As long as a project remains unfinished, don't pay for it. If that means whoever the dev is dreams never come true, well, fuck em', they need to have something presentable before they start begging.
 

Theysmelly月

Newbie
Oct 28, 2022
28
39
My post will be deleted (extremely reddit based moment) but here me out:

Most porn-devs hire cheap artists or Chinese artist labors for jack-shit (looking at you, towerfag)
Spend the first few month(s) making a game seemingly put "effort" into it
reel the small fish money in, and slow down the game tad bit by making a post announcement
stop making the game all together
 
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zzundeadzz

Newbie
Sep 23, 2017
68
82
Petty much for quick cash. Buy a few 3d assets, let them fuck each other, slowly add new backgrounds, poses..etc to milk their members, bragging about personal life problems (like ate too much can't work this month).

Then the "oh shit moment"! They announce that they fucked up because of the software, their family, dog ate their hard drive and so on. They have to rework, change the engine or abandon and move on to another game.
 
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ayy

Member
Sep 14, 2016
257
437
Petty much for quick cash. Buy a few 3d assets, let them fuck each other, slowly add new backgrounds, poses..etc to milk their members, bragging about personal life problems (like ate too much can't work this month).

Then the "oh shit moment"! They announce that they fucked up because of the software, their family, dog ate their hard drive and so on. They have to rework, change the engine or abandon and move on to another game.
Lets not forget, grandma got eaten by a pitbull and I had to get a scrotectomy from my raging gangrenous balls 2 months ago, so heres some renders I whipped up while I defend myself on my F95 threads using mule accounts.
 

Gwedelino

Well-Known Member
Game Developer
Sep 4, 2017
1,043
2,157
Quick question there but how does Japanese devs manage to make a profit out of their game ?

Most of them never use Patreon and only get paid when they release a completed version on DLsite or any other website close to this.

Guess they don't make a profit except for the top ones ?
 

imiii

Newbie
Apr 26, 2020
25
15
Quick question there but how does Japanese devs manage to make a profit out of their game ?

Most of them never use Patreon and only get paid when they release a completed version on DLsite or any other website close to this.

Guess they don't make a profit except for the top ones ?
Ci-En can act as a sort of Patreon I believe. I used to pay for a few artists and some games on there myself but I do not know how much of a cut they get.

As for the actual topic, my biggest problem with H Games is how similar they are to each other now. So many medieval games where girls with basically the same two or three body types are raped by orcs, goblins, and other generic stuff (I have no idea why zombies suddenly became so popular). Where's the all the creativity? Add some sci-fi, modern fantasy, or something other than small town/city girl versus the same stuff we've seen in so many other games. Oh yeah add more normal looking women in normal clothing, not something with breasts that can compare to her head, or completely flat chested in barely there clothing. To add to this further, more than a few games I can think of didn't even release with a freaking gallery, you know one of the most basic things an H-Game should have. It's also probably just bad luck on my part but there's so much NTR and urination now too. I usually don't care about vanilla because it's usually boring, but again I hate seeing a title and going "This looks interesting, oh there's NTR, pissing, cheating, among many other things I dislike." Trying to find a good MILF title (game or otherwise) without NTR, cheating, incest, or a shota protagonist is basically impossible.

TLDR; A lot of developers are getting lazy, using the same idea repeatedly, and not even putting in the effort of putting in basic things like galleries.

Also tag your stuff properly, for everyone's sake.
 

Droid Productions

[Love of Magic & Morningstar]
Donor
Game Developer
Dec 30, 2017
7,010
17,950
Quick question there but how does Japanese devs manage to make a profit out of their game ?

Most of them never use Patreon and only get paid when they release a completed version on DLsite or any other website close to this.

Guess they don't make a profit except for the top ones ?
There's a studio structure, publishers, distributors, prepaids and... you know, shit that used to exist in the normie games industry before Apple and Google came down like a dual set of Chicxulub impactors to the games industry. Since then it's essentially Indie (starve and hope), Mobile (Starve or get investment, then hope like HELL) or AAA (1,500 people, $200M USD and a job spending 2 years tweaking the eyebrow animation of the main character)

Obviously, no porn on Google/Apple, so the old structure still holds in Japan.
 
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Greiya Archives

first rate degenerate
Game Developer
Aug 23, 2022
476
555
Quick question there but how does Japanese devs manage to make a profit out of their game ?

Most of them never use Patreon and only get paid when they release a completed version on DLsite or any other website close to this.

Guess they don't make a profit except for the top ones ?
I think most (as in, the far majority / nearly all) Japanese H-games are made by small studios, rather than solo devs.
So the devs and artists are paid salaries, while the studios make profit after release of completed games.

Japan is H-friendly. Making a H-games studio is not very different than making a regular small games studio.

Guess they don't make a profit except for the top ones?
I don't think that's right, while adult games are generally not very profitable, there's a big market for them in Japan.
if the average h-game sells 100,000 copies, at 2,000 Yen (approx $20 usd, rn $15 cause of this year's inflation) each, that's 2 million USD net profit, which still leaves decent profit after taking into account production and running costs.


These aren't quoted figures or anything, I'm just giving an idea of how it works based on my knowledge.
When I first discovered h-games, I didn't even know there were solo-dev games like that for about 6 months. I played - and searched through - a lot of Japanese H-games (many not even translated), and none of the ones I saw or played were made by a solo dev.
 

Ophanim

Member
May 2, 2018
197
422
I think most (as in, the far majority / nearly all) Japanese H-games are made by small studios, rather than solo devs.
So the devs and artists are paid salaries, while the studios make profit after release of completed games.

Japan is H-friendly. Making a H-games studio is not very different than making a regular small games studio.


I don't think that's right, while adult games are generally not very profitable, there's a big market for them in Japan.
if the average h-game sells 100,000 copies, at 2,000 Yen (approx $20 usd, rn $15 cause of this year's inflation) each, that's 2 million USD net profit, which still leaves decent profit after taking into account production and running costs.


These aren't quoted figures or anything, I'm just giving an idea of how it works based on my knowledge.
When I first discovered h-games, I didn't even know there were solo-dev games like that for about 6 months. I played - and searched through - a lot of Japanese H-games (many not even translated), and none of the ones I saw or played were made by a solo dev.
I would generally agree with this, and thanks for talking about it, but the download figures on your average DLsite game are not encouraging. It seems like an environment reminiscent of patreon over there, where the big big devs have the stable profit you're talking about, but most games I've cared to look at outside of those big devs seem to sell pretty poorly, and slowly at that. Sometimes one of those will rocket up and start a new fad, but most games really seem to languish... Idk, I haven't done any strenuous research on this, just going off of the times I've been on there and glanced at the sales figures on games, so if anyone has that'd be kinda interesting to know about o_O

I can't speak for other online JP marketplaces for porn games ofc
 
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interlinked

Member
Aug 12, 2018
113
153
I can assure the OP and all other complainers that majority of devs know pretty well that game development is anything but get rich quick scheme. If you hope to ever reach a point when the game development makes you enough to go full time, you basically need to grind for years. There are some lucky exceptions who got substantial funding pretty fast, but these are just that, exceptions.

People who go into this thinking they'll get easy cash fast usually quit after 2 updates when they realize they spent hundreds of hours and getting like 6 patrons. If you ever wat to pass this development phase, you really need to enjoy what you do.

The only thing some devs do that I don't understand is a complete neglect of communication. There is simply no excuse to not write a few lines of development update at least once a month. If you don't write an update for two months sice your last release, I just consider the game abandoned.
 

Snowsexxx32

Newbie
Jun 3, 2018
95
98
This whole issue would stop if people would quit paying devs to be alpha/beta testers instead of the other way around. As long as a project remains unfinished, don't pay for it. If that means whoever the dev is dreams never come true, well, fuck em', they need to have something presentable before they start begging.
That's pretty much the model of patreon in the first place. If you like the dev's work and want to support them doing work that you may get to enjoy in the future (no real guarantees there), then support them. If you don't, then don't. If you don't like how subscription support for unknown returns work, don't bother with things like patreon or subscribestar.

The title of this thread is such a huge troll to start with. Let's say that a huge majority is means somewhere between a simple majority and supermajority... No, fuck that, given that the majority of both code and art is never released in the first place, regardless of business model, I'd guess that the majority of porn devs aren't actually on patreon to start with.

So to be a bit more generous, maybe the OP meant of those on patreon. Do even half of the game threads that have patreon/subscribestar support links (where the dev is actually on the thread) feel like the dev doesn't care and just wants money? It's weird when people are supporting a game, instead of a dev or an artist, and I think that's just a bad model. People supporting an artist on patreon may get the same render content, just without the code, but for some reason seem less happy about how much content they get when it's in a game, even though the addition of the code makes it more work.

I'm over simplifying a ton, but when you're supporting one person, and expecting them to be a writer, dev, and artist (yeah renders are still artist work even if the assets are all off the shelf), when it's incredibly rare for someone to be good at all three. Some patreons are supporting whole teams, but teams also fall apart just for different reasons than individuals do.

TL;DR - Just treat patreon like gambling, don't do it if you can't affort it, go into it expecting that most games and artists fail, and the work if completed is never released.
 
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Gwedelino

Well-Known Member
Game Developer
Sep 4, 2017
1,043
2,157
I can assure the OP and all other complainers that majority of devs know pretty well that game development is anything but get rich quick scheme. If you hope to ever reach a point when the game development makes you enough to go full time, you basically need to grind for years. There are some lucky exceptions who got substantial funding pretty fast, but these are just that, exceptions.

People who go into this thinking they'll get easy cash fast usually quit after 2 updates when they realize they spent hundreds of hours and getting like 6 patrons. If you ever wat to pass this development phase, you really need to enjoy what you do.

The only thing some devs do that I don't understand is a complete neglect of communication. There is simply no excuse to not write a few lines of development update at least once a month. If you don't write an update for two months sice your last release, I just consider the game abandoned.
Exceptions are usually people that are already well-known (as an artist or as a dev) releasing a very promising project and getting quickly an audience for their game, basically because they already had one.
 

gunderson

Member
Aug 17, 2016
358
628
Let's get some basics out of the way: milkers 100% exist. There aren't many of them (out of the maybe 10000 porn game projects here, I'd guess it's around 100 might qualify as milkers, aka 1% of the total) as most projects simply die, and most other projects keep steadily building their games in earnest. But it's still annoying to see the likes of Milfy City/Dahr/etc. making money for doing essentially nothing for years. And because they've in many cases made at least one game that most visitors to the site have heard of, the existence of these scummy Patreon/Subscribestar pages is relevant to the average f95 user as a caution if nothing else. It's not super great for smaller devs to deal with the constant worry of being called a milker if you take a week off or something, but welcome to Internet. You chose to make your money asking for donations from the masturbatingest people on the web (what did you think the web was made of, silk?). Immature and otherwise shitty behavior from your customers is one of the costs of doing your business here.

Thing is, I don't think people are even all that mad at the milkers. How could you be? They didn't kidnap their supporters' families. They didn't promise to cure cancer and then fail in a way that killed all their patients. They stopped updating a porn game, that their supporters voluntarily signed up to support, and then those same supporters continued to support the associated Patreon/Subscribestar page either because they didn't bother to check on the game months/years later or bought the absolute flimsiest excuses for why the game isn't being updated years later. You're mad, instead, that those supporters are wasting their money on something that is similar to something that would benefit you, but doesn't. They could be using their money to support your favorite game, or to pay you to make your extra special amazing game, but they aren't. They're throwing it away. And there's absolutely nothing you can do to stop it for the greatest majority of people who support these milkers. So you should simply forget about it. It's probably shitty for said milker to take peoples' money, but they are completely free to do so. It's on the table either way. So some do.

But you can do something about your own self: clean your subscriptions regularly. Ask yourself, "Am I subbing because I still play that game/because I sincerely expect something good to come out in a reasonable time frame? Or is it because the dev was nice to me once and I don't want him to feel bad? Or am I just subbing because I liked that game and haven't checked in recently to see if it's a ghost town?" Then, if there's a game you're still subbing to that you shouldn't, cut it off. Patreon and Subscribestar, unsurprisingly, don't have an 'inactivity monitor.' They don't tell you that Dr. Cocktor hasn't posted anything at all in two months. They do better if you forget about his game entirely and focus on game updates you do see, because they get transaction fees whether Dr. Cocktor delivers an amazing game update every month like clockwork or loses his Patreon password on day 2 but donations keep rolling in.

Unsatisfying, huh? Yup. That's because it's a sensible thing you can do that helps you a little, takes some time, and crushes a little bit of your hopes and dreams every time you do it. Kinda like going to the gym. But, that's how you keep devs honest and shift your disposable porn cash to devs who deserve it more based on the work they're doing and how much you enjoy what they make (and sometimes away from those same devs if they implode, which also happens).