0.9 is greater than 0.10

[skazy]

so guys, i see a lot of developers like to develop their games in time. most likely they won't publish the game when it is done, instead they publish it before complete and monthly basis. and they say "this is version 0.9" then next month they say "this is version 0.10" but the thing is 0.9>0.10 so it makes no sense, right?
so generaly this is not a big problem. but when i look for some good games to play, i find EXAMPLE [0.16] . and i have that game on my computer but its name is EXAMPLE [0.8] so, is it a new version or an old one?
or, for example, there is a game that i have never seen, and its name is EXAMPLE [0.21] . is it a newer game or an older one?
i think there sould be a universal coding for this, to prevent the misunderstanding.

 

[Burt Reynolds Mustache]

so guys, i see a lot of developers like to develop their games in time. most likely they won't publish the game when it is done, instead they publish it before complete and monthly basis. and they say "this is version 0.9" then next month they say "this is version 0.10" but the thing is 0.9>0.10 so it makes no sense, right?
so generaly this is not a big problem. but when i look for some good games to play, i find EXAMPLE [0.16] . and i have that game on my computer but its name is EXAMPLE [0.8] so, is it a new version or an old one?
or, for example, there is a game that i have never seen, and its name is EXAMPLE [0.21] . is it a newer game or an older one?
i think there sould be a universal coding for this, to prevent the misunderstanding.

It's really just something that happens in version numbering. Usually anything after the 0. is the number of the release. It's not super common, but it's not uncommon either.

 

[DarthSeduction]

Ideally, a creator won't release it by version number if they're going to be in alpha past their 9th full release. We should be encouraging people, especially since this is the way most of these games progress, to implement a chapter or episode structure. First release is episode 1, second is 2 and so on. This would also encourage developers not to release garbage updates. If you're going to commit to an episodic release schedule, then each episode should be roughly the same amount of content. It could also help writing, encouraging writers to flesh out their stories and add suspenseful endings to releases to keep us interested, which I think would cut down on the edging that most devs do.

 

[Cyan]

Ideally, a creator won't release it by version number if they're going to be in alpha past their 9th full release. We should be encouraging people, especially since this is the way most of these games progress, to implement a chapter or episode structure. First release is episode 1, second is 2 and so on. This would also encourage developers not to release garbage updates. If you're going to commit to an episodic release schedule, then each episode should be roughly the same amount of content. It could also help writing, encouraging writers to flesh out their stories and add suspenseful endings to releases to keep us interested, which I think would cut down on the edging that most devs do.

I disagree.

Of course they should put out a certain amount of content with each release, but if it's not notarized by a specific release number, there's not really a way to tell if it's the current up-to-date version. If it's your 9th release, but there some game breaking bugs which you missed, it's a bit difficult to say "you want this 9th release, not that other 9th release" - Or "9th release version 2.0". It's just all around easier to say version .9b/.9c/.9d.

 

[DarthSeduction]

I disagree.

Of course they should put out a certain amount of content with each release, but if it's not notarized by a specific release number, there's not really a way to tell if it's the current up-to-date version. If it's your 9th release, but there some game breaking bugs which you missed, it's a bit difficult to say "you want this 9th release, not that other 9th release" - Or "9th release version 2.0". It's just all around easier to say version .9b/.9c/.9d.

I figure you could do what GGGB does and literally call each release an Alpha Beta or Final. If you release and have no bugs then go ahead and update it to final. If you release and have a few bugs, fix them release as beta. If you have no more bugs yay. If you do, beta 2. so on and so forth.

I get version numbering, don't get me wrong. I simply feel like its not used correctly by the majority of devs, and so would be better served with something simple.

 

[dirtyscrote]

Heh first post, time to stop lurking

There are no hard and fast versioning rules, i work as a professional developer, code is my bread and butter and no two places i have worked follow the same versioning strategy.
As a rule of thumb you count the number of digits in a version number, so in your example
0.9 > 0.10 is incorrect, as 0.10 has more digits. and 0.9 should be read as 0.09 in the presence of a 2 digit release number.
0.90 is > 0.10

Why didnt the dev's build 2 digits into there versioning scheme? simple they dont have too, and secondly the vast majority of games are written either as a hobby by people who are not coders and so lack knowledge of these things and are cargo cult copying what they see software they use do, or they know how to version but when its a just them its a lot of overhead and time spent managing them selves they would rather spend making games.

Personally i would love to see semantic versioning becoming an adopted standard,
Release.Major.Minor.Build
Which means
Release is when you finish/complete 0 for beta, 1 for release etc.
Major is what often comes as a monthly release i.e. new features characters, locations
Minor is a bug fix, often what comes out a day or 2 after the major relase to fix a forgotten asset, or broken dialog loop
Build is literally the iteration the dev is on when they share a big fix for testing.

The dev is then free to peg chapter releases as they see fit, be it a bump of the Revision or major digits.

Of course this wont happen, so long live 0.5b(Really fixed) chapter 2

 

[Palanto]

Well first I'll answer the OP's question:

*snip* i find EXAMPLE [0.16] . and i have that game on my computer but its name is EXAMPLE [0.8] so, is it a new version or an old one?
or, for example, there is a game that i have never seen, and its name is EXAMPLE [0.21] . is it a newer game or an older one?

Just like dirtyscrote said, 0.8 < 0.16, because the 0.8 should be read as 0.08, well it should have been written that way too but that's another story
Well about the second case, that depends on which game and which version there is, if there's an 0.21 but nothing else I'd say it's the latest available release
If there's a v0.21 and a version 0.6 downloadable then the 0.21 > 0.6


I use a different kind of versioning, and I wrote it on many places inside our own thread, in the changelogs, on our patreon page... just everywhere really....
I did it close to what dirtyscrote suggested.

v0.4.2.1 would be our latest version now (not released to the public yet)
It updates v0.4.1.1 to v0.4.2.1 and the numbers mean this:
0 = Finished Game (0 = not finished, 1 = finished), .4 = Chapter four included (or at least parts of it), .2 = Part two of chapter four included, .1 = Patch version, meaning in this case there were some bugfixes (else it would have been .0)

0.4.2.1 = Not finished game, with chapter 4 (partly) part 2 included, with a small patch.

Chapter four could also be replaced by "release 4" in case the game doesn't get released in chapters.
Before we split the chapters into multiple parts it was a 3 number versioning system.
0.4.1 would've meant: not finished game with the 4th release/chapter and 1 patch

In our case we'll get over the 10 too and won't call it 0.04.2.1 because we do it in chapters, and chapter 04 sounds stupid, looks ugly and it's not necessary to call it that way Sure "version numberwise" it should be 0.04.2.1 but then again, who knows how many versions there'll be right from the beginning? So to make sure we would have to call it 0.000004.000002.000001 just to have enough room to create milions of releases if necessary So in your logic a 0.99 release would be > than a 0.100 release just because the dev didn't think of the possibility he could get over 100 releases

 

[DarthSeduction]

The biggest problem is inconsistency. When I see a 0.14 I'm not sure if this game is on its 14th release and is gonna have a ton of content, or on its 1st release with 4 bugfixes.

 

[Palanto]

True, well that's one of the reasons I totally agree with dirtyscrote on semantic versioning becoming an adopted standard.

 

[Barioz]

The biggest problem is inconsistency. When I see a 0.14 I'm not sure if this game is on its 14th release and is gonna have a ton of content, or on its 1st release with 4 bugfixes.

That's why god/the universe/whoever you see as your creator invented the dot. Like 0.1.4. Easy as pie one should think but laziness strong on us is in 21st century, master Yoda says.

 

[DarthSeduction]

That's why god/the universe/whoever you see as your creator invented the dot. Like 0.1.4. Easy as pie one should think but laziness strong on us is in 21st century, master Yoda says.

If I remember correctly it was the french... or at least they were the first to use it for currency.

 

[DarthSeduction]

because of this thread I just looked at a 0.11, like, well, maybe... changlog "first version"

 

[anne O'nymous]

If I remember correctly it was the french... or at least they were the first to use it for currency.

Sorry, but your memory must betray you.
We actually use coma as separator between the integer and decimal parts, and space as separator inside the integer part. So, I don't think that, somewhere is the past we used the dot in numbers. This said, I can be wrong, I just did some searches, but wasn't able to find something about it, neither in English nor French.

 

[skazy]

guys, i don't know how you use a dot or a comma in your country or in your daily life/school ect. but in my country, 0.9>0.16 because we say "zeros after comma aren't necesseary" so 0.9=0.90 = 0.900 = 0.90000 ect. in other words, 0.9 = 0.90 > 0.16
but, if you are talking about "we developers prefer 0.9 >< 0.90 but 0.9 = 0.09 "
as en engineer, i don't get it. then you say, 0.000000009 = 0.9 .
i get you say "in order to number of digits, you have to put the zero before the number, not after it"
you developers may understand it, but it is not a universal representation

 

[Barioz]

guys, i don't know how you use a dot or a comma in your country or in your daily life/school ect. but in my country, 0.9>0.16 because we say "zeros after comma aren't necesseary" so 0.9=0.90 = 0.900 = 0.90000 ect. in other words, 0.9 = 0.90 > 0.16

Err, 0.09 has one zero after comma (or in this case dot) and since it isn't necessary you can call it 0.9 according to your own definition. :coldsweat:

What you mean is a percentage. 0.9 can be 90%. But since we speak about versions 0.9 is not automatically 90%.

 

[skazy]

dude, when i say after comma, it means like the example i gave. in order to prevent misunderstandings i always try to give examples. and in basic math, 0.9>0.16, you can even try it on your calculator.
examples made on calculator:
0.9-0.16=0.74 this is a positive number, means 0.9>0.16
0.16-0.9= -0.74 this is a positive number, means 0.16<0.9
0.09/0.9=0.1 , it is not 1, means 0.09><0.9 (>< means not equal)
0.9000/0.9=1 , it is 1, means 0.900000=0.9 (zeros after comma [and after the number there] aren't necessary)

these are equations in use basic math.
but if you say, we developers don't give a damn about math, i can get it.
but i am talking about universality, means, when a person in italy sees this he can understand. also when a person sees this in africa, he can understand too. in this case, there wouldn't be any problem in communicating. right?

 

[Barioz]

Well, your examples are right (never doubted that), but as I already said: "But since we speak about versions 0.9 is not automatically 90%."

When it comes to program versions it's nothing mathematical. It's just how the dev prefers to call his versions.
And still your own definition of 'zeros after comma aren't necesseary' applies. 0.09 is 0.9 because otherwise it would be 0.0.9.

 

[skazy]

okey. let's say you are right. wouldn't it be better if everybody represent their work same way, therefore there wouldn't be any misunderstanding, right?
when i see a game and want to try it, i see it says ver. 0.21 . now, does this game has 21 chapters and pretty long, or is it just a new game whic has 2 chapters and a patch.
if it was, like mentioned before, for example 0.2.1 for 2 chapters and 1 patch, or vanilla 0.21 for 21 chapters and no patch, or 0.21.1 for 21 chapters and a patch, wouldn't it be better to understand?

 

[Cyan]

I think all of this would be cleared up easily if developers started updating their 'release notes' more. It's easy to see if a 0.21 is the 21st release of a game, or the 2nd with some updates.

 

[skazy]

yes. all i am trying to say is, for consistency, there should be a universal way to describe their works. if i made a work i want this work to reach as a lot of people as possible. and this can only happen if i use some universal expressions, right?