27 of 30 Most Liked games are 3d VNs... ...Why, tho?

[dusty stu]

27 of the top 30 most liked games on f95 are 3dcg Visual Novels.
Why?
Why is this exact niche so popular? What age groups are flocking to this genre? Why do the majority of them have girls with giant tits? Why are a disproportionate amount of them incest VNs?
The three non VNs are Summer Saga, Something Unlimited, and 4Elements trainer. Of those, I would assert that only Unlimited has actual game play of significance.


I have a few loose theories;

1. [Bullshit guess] They are popular with audiences who have a lot of free time, like boys aged 13-18. This is based on the average depth of character, plot, and reading level of 3d VNs I've played.

2. [Practical Guess] Modeling with pre built 3d assets is faster to do that 2d hand drawn art. Therefore, authors of 3d VNs can put out more finished games faster than 2d game makers. Another impact of this is that there are more pictures per sexual encounter. IE, a 3d game will have 1-5 sentences of text/dialogue per picture, while a 2d game will have 5-20 sentences/dialogue per picture. More pictures means easier to consume. Its like the difference between reading a comic book and and novel that has 1 illustration per chapter.

3. [Reasonable assumption] People on this site don't want to be bothered with gameplay.

4. [Potential theory] The f95 website itself is promoting these types of game in other ways. Alternatively, the makers and authors are spending more money on advertising.

5. [Longshot theory] 3d VNs are easier to get $ on Patreon. 3dVNs tend to be safer and more vanilla than the average game. They stray away from hardcore stuff and extreme kinks, such as loli, beast, and guro. Patreon doesn't allow for a lot of extreme kinks. Especially the 18+ age rule. Contrast that to Japanese VNs. Almsot every Jap VN I've played had at least one loli girl to f*ck.



Edit: some people are getting the impression that I dislike VNs; I don't. There are a few 3d VNs that I have enjoyed (Beautiful World -Divinity ). I also like some 2d VNs (Beat Blades Haruka). I simply prefer games that have game play and challenge in them (Honey Pop). I don't like games with lots of grind (Slave Maker).
For reference, my top games are Honey Select, Strive for Power, and Degrees of Lewdity.

 

[fitgirlbestgirl]

I don't think the "most liked" list is necessarily a representative list of games that are popular right now. Many of the games on there are literally years old and had a way longer time to accumulate those likes.

Also most of your theories are incredibly biased because you don't like VNs and apparently can't conceive of a reason why anybody would like them, so it must all just be dumb teenagers or a vast conspiracy to promote them.

People on this site don't want to be bothered with gameplay.

At least that much applies to me. I come here for porn, not to try out your revolutionary new RPG combat system (which, let's be real is probably neither revolutionary or new because it's usually just the standard grindy RPGM shit.)

 

[baneini]

1 person can create a 3dcg vn that gets meaningful content updates monthly for the patreon bucks and f95 visibility.
Person who likes 1 incest 3dcg game is likely to like another and they view most games in that genre.

Complex games that require teams to create are rarer, usually have less content updates because a 2d artist cannot compete with the speed it takes to create 3dcg sex scenes. Less content means they have less discussion and visibility on f95, and the site does nothing to promote them. It has this inherent favoritism of popularity/views over quality.

I personally liked 3d renpy games more in the past and now I appreciate 2d/rpgm games more, I figure other people just haven't gotten bored of them yet. Or they prioritize not having to invest in a title with effort or time. I've also seen people who are fantastically unable to understand gaming mechanics like they're disabled or something.

 

[Bitter Strawman]

6. There are more 3D vn's therefore there are more better ones.

 

[W65]

It's probably just a reflection of the tastes of the majority of folks who use this particular site. "Best games" and recommendations lists on the forums here pretty often produce long lists of 3D Western VNs. English-language games are prominent here because, well, the forum only allows English-language and translated games--and that's fine, I'm not saying things need to change.

The English-language porn game development community might well be more focused on 3D VNs right now, but the way to determine that would be through directly looking at who's developing what.

 

[おい！]

Well I have click likes to nearly all of those games, because I liked them. It is as simple as that.

 

[dusty stu]

I don't think the "most liked" list is necessarily a representative list of games that are popular right now. Many of the games on there are literally years old and had a way longer time to accumulate those likes.

Also most of your theories are incredibly biased because you don't like VNs and apparently can't conceive of a reason why anybody would like them, so it must all just be dumb teenagers or a vast conspiracy to promote them.



At least that much applies to me. I come here for porn, not to try out your revolutionary new RPG combat system (which, let's be real is probably neither revolutionary or new because it's usually just the standard grindy RPGM shit.)

Hey, I never said they were good theories. Just educated guesses and some bullshit guesses.

I like some 3d VNs. However, I like other stuff more. And I do greatly prefer games with some gameplay.
I also don't like grindy rpgm games.

My fav VN is Honey Pop. Its a 2d harem date sim, but it also has a fun and challenging game baked in (bejewled clone). Beat blades haruka is also quite nice.

 

[fitgirlbestgirl]

My fav VN is Honey Pop. Its a 2d harem date sim, but it also has a fun and challenging game baked in (bejewled clone).

It's a well made game but it wouldn't even make my top 20. It's also not really a VN. That game is way too much about the Bejeweled thing and any actual sexual content is almost more of an afterthought or window dressing. Playing a Bejeweled clone to make anime girls moan and ultimately unlock like one or two naked pictures isn't my idea of an adult game.

 

[freedom.call]

I'm not 13-18, that's a fact. I like VN style games best simply because they're easier to 'play'. I have no interest spending hours getting out of my house because I can't dress properly, or fall into a manhole and be eaten by zombies.

I'm here for the porn and if there's a good story, excellent.

 

[random.person]

I think it's both them having a low barrier of entry for devs and being "friendly" for players that don't want game mechanics but sexual themed stories.
3D has the advantage of the ease of usage of some software to render the scenes, something that doesn't require an artist (like making 2D images does), so for solo developers they are more common, since then a single person can both be in charge of coding and making the graphical assets.

Regarding incest or body proportions, it's a matter of taste and target audience. Big boobs are commonly liked, so it's a given they're nearly omnipresent. Kind of the same goes for incest, it's a common sexual fantasy even for people that wouldn't ever practice it in real life.

 

[tomcire]

My 2 cents

1. Wrong, totally wrong for many reasons.
a. VNs take less time than the average grindy game, this is why they are popular, they are faster to play and easier, and... Renpy. Good engine, awesome engine. Solid, easy to use and works on all systems.
b. Most of the top games, if they are not focused on incest fetish, do not have a really young MC.

2. About 3d, yes, Daz studio and others software give the possibility to developers to have good assets, and 3d appeal people that do not like 2d and prefer realism. 2d needs good artists and many style may not be pleasing to every people, plus not everybody is excited by 2d.

3. Yes but... the gameplay. Grinding and games that requires 2 hands are not the best to fap.

4. nah.

5. Yes, but the answer is 2.

 

[Jon_Sleeper]

Wrong. It seems like you can't simply comprehend why people would like VNs over other types of games. And btw I don't know about others but I have been playing VNs(jap ones) long before I discovered this site.

 

[ZZ23]

Only your practical theory seems correct.

Making 2d game requires ability to draw and that is something that is hard to come by, then you need to add animation and all
technical aspect of putting stuff together.

You can see that people who makes 3dcgs rarely posses ability to even create assets and basic animations.
But they sometimes bring good writing to the table that makes up for that.

Making gameplay is extremely difficult and requires whole different skill set.

 

[recreation]

1. Can't exclude that and I actually some of the people here not older then 14 judging by their posts...(in general on the forum).

2. Generally true. I used to paint until a few years ago and yes, it's much slower. If you have a bit experience with daz you can create good scenes in lesser than 5 minutes.

3. Can't exclude that either.

4. I don't think so.

5. Yes and no. There are two mainstream tools broadly used. DAZ and RenPy. Both are free and easy to use. It's quite easy to make a simple VN with renpy and with DAZ even a total noob can make decent render. So everyone willing to jump on the cashtrain will use these tools and of course they will stay away from the extreme stuff.
If you want to make extreme stuff in DAZ you'll have a hard time alone for getting the models look right. For bestiality you won't find many models and most of the existing "beasts" are really old. Same goes for blood and stuff. A beginner won't be able to get good effects without some work.

 

[Segnbora]

I mean, it's hard to see how one could play something like Depraved Awakening and think there's no gameplay. It is an RPG in the classic sense of the word, even though there isn't a single classic RPG element save for the word the "R" represents. But that "R" infuses nearly every choice the player makes. You can play the game as a hero, as a monster, or as pretty much anything in-between, and it matters. It's well-written and beautifully illustrated.

Our tastes are obviously very, very different, but there are two things that immediately sour me on games (well, three if you include games that suck):

1) Pointless grinding in order to unlock sex. I don't mind a well-balanced work/reward system, and I don't mind reasonable stat/level-grinding in traditional RPGs (erotic or otherwise), but if the only thing between me and a blowjob is eleven days of "shower/gym/study/eat lunch/work/sleep" so I can afford to buy my girlfriend flowers and unlock said blowjob, it often turns out that I'm not that interested in the blowjob. And for Cthulhu's sake, no f-ing minigames unless they're somehow plot-relevant. If I want to play Bejeweled or solitaire or some sort of memory game, I'll play one.

2) Endless streams of boring click-through text over static or near-static images. It's certainly not that I dislike text — Offcuts is one of my favorite games — but if I have to click/spacebar/whatever through forty mediocre dialogues to get a pose change, the chance that I'm going to boredom-quit the game goes through the roof. And four clicks to eliminate an utterly pointless series of ellipses? Fuck that shit.

I like a story. A good, logical-in-its-context, well-written story about coherent characters that compels me to find out what happens next. Whether that's via a linear VN, or a classic RPG, or essentially extinct AIF, or a branching multi-character Ren'py game, or...I dunno, something absolutely unthinkable like trading sex partners like baseball cards on your own personal sex island...just give me that great story and I'm happy, no matter what the medium.

 

[Notretsam]

I didn't read every single post so maybe someone said this already.

The reason why there is no gameplay in VN's is because VN stands for Visual Novel and therefore its not a game, its a story with some choices, sorta like a interactive novel but its not a game.

The reason why 3d is preferred over 2d is because 3d graphics are more realistic than 2d.

Just like some people prefer the old message board style of reddit to facebook or twitter, some people will prefer the older 2d RPGM styled games. But clearly twitter and facebook is more popular, just like 3d is over 2d.

 

[HopesGaming]

As a dev of a game that is in that bracket (The DeLuca Family), I find all your assumptions to be malarkey (for lack of better words)

Firstly, not all 3d games there are pure VN games. Mine isn't. I got free roaming, RPG elements, items and management in it. In fact, many of the games on that list have free roaming in it. Just like their 2d counterparts.

1. My game is a heavy story based game. Does not even have sex in it yet. Only focus on the plot and character development.

So, the players of f95 are not as mundane as you think they are. They actually care about it.

Now, let's turn it back on the 2d games in the bracket. Great games indeed, I play and look forward to those, but not really what you would call games with deep stories. They all have these silly styles and the focus is on the sex.

2. This is somewhat correct. The reason why the majority of devs do 3d over 2d is because of the accessibility of it.

Well made 2d games tend to do better with patrons. But only if the artist is skilled at drawing.
A bad 2d is like a poor attempt at 3d. No one is going to be interested.
And it is a lot easier to learn to do good 3d then it is to learn to do good 2d.

3. Some like gameplay. Some don't. The f95 members are as different as you would expect each individual human to be.
Of course, people will explain why they like something over another thing here. But those are just that individuals preferences. In general, there are all kinds of people here. If one guy does not like *thing A* then there is another guy here who do like *thing A*
A good gameplay game will do as well as a game that does not focus on the gameplay. All about the game. Not the players.

4. Wrong. F95 does not favor 3d over 2d nor do they advertise a game. When a new 2d game comes out, it will have an equal chance of getting into the featured list/popular list as a 3d game would. This is done by the popularity, quality, and community of the game.

2d games are actually the one who usually buy advertisement for their games (banners) due to them having a broader audience with their 2d style of game (if I remember correctly summertime saga did that) while 3d games is still a niche market where buying adverts are not worth it.

5. Like mentioned before, this is actually wrong. A well made 2d game have an easier time climbing the ladder than a well made 3d game.
That is mostly due to 3d VN's still being a rather new thing so not that big of a market for it yet where 2d have made its mark due to Japanese VNS from way back in the old days.
Secondly, 2d games are fewer (western) while 3d games are becoming plentiful due to the easy accessibility.
Does not increase the market for 3d, just make the market filled with badly made 3d games (due to so many 0.01 that underestimate what it takes to make proper 3d).


I mostly talk about my own game as it is the one I kind of is most familiar with. But a ton of other games who have deep and stories with character depths such as DA and AL.

 

[fitgirlbestgirl]

F95 does not favor 3d over 2d nor do they advertise a game. When a new 2d game comes out, it will have an equal chance of getting into the featured list/popular list as a 3d game would. This is done by the popularity, quality, and community of the game.

I agree with your other points but this is just objectively wrong. The Featured Games list is advertising for all intents and purposes and it's explicitly supposed to be for games that "aren't popular enough." It's also entirely based on staff voting, so unless you personally know how every staff member feels about 2D vs 3D you can't really know what games have what chance of being included.

 

[HopesGaming]

I agree with your other points but this is just objectively wrong. The Featured Games list is advertising for all intents and purposes and it's explicitly supposed to be for games that "aren't popular enough." It's also entirely based on staff voting, so unless you personally know how every staff member feels about 2D vs 3D you can't really know what games have what chance of being included.

That is true. But I do believe that the staff is unbiased when it comes to voting.
Being around here long enough to know that many of the staff enjoy 2d games as much as the 3d. (They are active at discord)

Also, they laid out the criteria for the games they choose to add.
Quality and popular (for a new game) are some of those criteria. And, sadly, no new 2d games have come out that have shaken the community up.
But I have no doubts that a new 2d game will come out sooner or later that is full of quality and will get popular. And that will end up in the featured list.

 

[Notretsam]

was going post this in last post but here is a simpler reason.

There is pretty much two types of people on F95..

1) the fapers who want a quickie
2) the storytellers who either tell a story(devs) and/or enjoy story based games

I suspect there is more 1's than 2's on this forum, and 3d VN's done in renpy is proably the quickest way for a dev to cash in on 1's.

Maybe am wrong but its a theory am running with here.