3D Software Help and Assistance. Ask Away.

[frostpaw]

Hey guys, I'm kinda frustrated (and not in the good horny way).
I'm having trouble with clothing especially clothing that should be more lose or stretch naturally.

What is my problem? -I'm trying to learn DAZ by replicating models from some of my favorite AVNs.
Here is one example: Nikki from Stiglet's The Visit. It is Genesis 3 with Lilith 7.

I already posted some of my tries in the Fan-Art Thread of The Visit, but I can't seem to get this particular top to work the way Stiglet did.
This is how it looks, when I load the asset in:

I think it is the same product (tank top). The Nikki I use has slightly smaller boobs than Stiglet's original.
The clipping problems on the jeans are not my problem.
I want to know, how I can fix the top looking good and natural with her big boobs.

My first try, that worked on other clothing was to crank up the Smoothing Iterations:

Here it seems to work at least in the right direction, but sadly the asset produces these bulges.

Another example with the same problem:
Here it is a custom character based on Genesis 8.

Here the character has even bigger boobs, but thankfully the asset (top) has not problems, when just loaded in.
But if I crank up the Smoothing Iterations, to fix the clothing to look more natural, it turns to shit. And with that high Smoothing Interations, fixing it with MeshGrabber or Adjusting Parameters doesn't work anymore.
But the other way round doesn't fix things either. Using MeshGrabber for fixing clipping is no problem and super easy, but it can't be used to get this natural effect.
The only option left, seems to be the Geometry Editor and turn off the characters geometry below the clothing.

Here is one last example with a dforce type of clothing. I simulated with dforce in the standard pose, but that doesn't seem to do anything either.

Question on the side: Does Adding a Smoothing Modifier work with dforce clothing or does it ruin it? In my test I turned it off.

So what is my best approach to this problem or do you guys know of a great tutorial for this things?
I learn DAZ from the official tutorial linked on their website by Jay. It is a great series and taught me many things, but I can't seem to get this to work.
Man, I wish I could ask Stiglet. I'm pretty sure, he talked about this in one of his early patreon posts around The Visit v0.4. He did a major fitting update for clothing around that time and was proud to share the news.

 

[TheDevian]

Hey guys, I'm kinda frustrated (and not in the good horny way).
I'm having trouble with clothing especially clothing that should be more lose or stretch naturally.

What is my problem? -I'm trying to learn DAZ by replicating models from some of my favorite AVNs.
Here is one example: Nikki from Stiglet's The Visit. It is Genesis 3 with Lilith 7.
View attachment 5427304 View attachment 5427306
I already posted some of my tries in the Fan-Art Thread of The Visit, but I can't seem to get this particular top to work the way Stiglet did.
This is how it looks, when I load the asset in:
View attachment 5427309 View attachment 5427312
I think it is the same product (tank top). The Nikki I use has slightly smaller boobs than Stiglet's original.
The clipping problems on the jeans are not my problem.
I want to know, how I can fix the top looking good and natural with her big boobs.

My first try, that worked on other clothing was to crank up the Smoothing Iterations:
View attachment 5427319
Here it seems to work at least in the right direction, but sadly the asset produces these bulges.

Another example with the same problem:
Here it is a custom character based on Genesis 8.
View attachment 5427331 View attachment 5427332
Here the character has even bigger boobs, but thankfully the asset (top) has not problems, when just loaded in.
But if I crank up the Smoothing Iterations, to fix the clothing to look more natural, it turns to shit. And with that high Smoothing Interations, fixing it with MeshGrabber or Adjusting Parameters doesn't work anymore.
But the other way round doesn't fix things either. Using MeshGrabber for fixing clipping is no problem and super easy, but it can't be used to get this natural effect.
The only option left, seems to be the Geometry Editor and turn off the characters geometry below the clothing.

Here is one last example with a dforce type of clothing. I simulated with dforce in the standard pose, but that doesn't seem to do anything either.
View attachment 5427383
Question on the side: Does Adding a Smoothing Modifier work with dforce clothing or does it ruin it? In my test I turned it off.

So what is my best approach to this problem or do you guys know of a great tutorial for this things?
I learn DAZ from the official tutorial linked on their website by Jay. It is a great series and taught me many things, but I can't seem to get this to work.
Man, I wish I could ask Stiglet. I'm pretty sure, he talked about this in one of his early patreon posts around The Visit v0.4. He did a major fitting update for clothing around that time and was proud to share the news.

There are a couple ways, the one I use is Fit Control.
I think there is also a way to do it with dForce, but I am not familiar with that.

 

[frostpaw]

There are a couple ways, the one I use is Fit Control.
I think there is also a way to do it with dForce, but I am not familiar with that.

I don't know. Fit control just doesn't really produce the result I'm looking for.

The bikini looks so natural with Smoothing Iterations at 80.
Compared to that, I can't make the Parameters on Fit Control reproduce this. There is always the center, which makes a cut between the breasts and it can't be flattened out. (Or I can't seem to get it to do it right.)
Which parameters can you recommend?

 

[TheDevian]

I don't know. Fit control just doesn't really produce the result I'm looking for.
View attachment 5427480 View attachment 5427481
The bikini looks so natural with Smoothing Iterations at 80.
Compared to that, I can't make the Parameters on Fit Control reproduce this. There is always the center, which makes a cut between the breasts and it can't be flattened out. (Or I can't seem to get it to do it right.)
Which parameters can you recommend?

Yeah, there are center depth controls to help, but they are far from perfect.
Daz seems to think that breasts cause a vacuum between them.

 

[frostpaw]

Yeah, there are center depth controls to help, but they are far from perfect.
Daz seems to think that breasts cause a vacuum between them.

But it is possible, if I look at the many renders by different creators of AVNs.
I get that creators are relucant to share their wisdom, because they 1) have better things to do, than teach others as that is really time consuming, and 2) it doesn't really benefit them.

 

[Estreiher]

But it is possible, if I look at the many renders by different creators of AVNs.
I get that creators are relucant to share their wisdom, because they 1) have better things to do, than teach others as that is really time consuming, and 2) it doesn't really benefit them.

Aren't these creators using Blender or other 3D software to adjust models?

 

[frostpaw]

Aren't these creators using Blender or other 3D software to adjust models?

Possible. But I hoped to find a solution built in DAZ. I watched the tutorial to Hexagon, but don't think it will solve my problem. It will do the same as MeshGrabber or the Geometry Editor.

 

[Pr0GamerJohnny]

But it is possible, if I look at the many renders by different creators of AVNs.
I get that creators are relucant to share their wisdom, because they 1) have better things to do, than teach others as that is really time consuming, and 2) it doesn't really benefit them.

Aren't these creators using Blender or other 3D software to adjust models?

I was gonna say, this is the the 3rd option, they're either manually grabbing it out with mesh grabber, or exporting it and smoothing in another program like blender or marvelous designer and creating custom morphs.

Offhand - with exaggerated boob proportions like that I'm not surprised "clothing sock effects" are made more troublesome - particularly because there's such a huge difference between the upper abdomen normals and the breast surface normals. While as you mentioned - you can set smoothing iterations to a huge number that'll incur a long processing time and brings other issues like greater undesirable collision with upper arms.

If it was me, I'd tone down the boobs, then make a custom morph for shirt in MD. If you dont have it - you post the character obj and shirt obj ill send you one back.

 

[frostpaw]

If it was me, I'd tone down the boobs, then make a custom morph for shirt in MD. If you dont have it - you post the character obj and shirt obj ill send you one back.

Thank you for the offer, but I just posted examples here, to get some insights from others.
I don't intend to go professional with this, so I guess I'll just live with the way it is. So instead of "neat, nice or perfect" I'll go with "nah, that's ok, acceptable".
I only do renders for fun anyway.
What is MD?
*Edit: You meant marvelous designer? No, I don't have an account or sub there.

 

[Pr0GamerJohnny]

*Edit: You meant marvelous designer? No, I don't have an account or sub there.

Yah, it's primarily a cloth physics simulation engine.

Imagine d-force but 20 times faster and less sucky.

 

[frostpaw]

Yah, it's primarily a cloth physics simulation engine.

Imagine d-force but 20 times faster and less sucky.

Just out of interest. So you could load up assets (character and clothing) from DAZ into MD and change the morphing of an item according to the character and then load it into DAZ?

 

[tretch95]

This here is the best and easiest to use

https://f95zone.to/threads/breast-utilities-for-genesis-8-female-s.25298/

It has actual projection morphs rather than messing around with the outfit.



Also you may need to increase the Smoothing value. If the outfit part doesn't have that, then

edit > object > geometry > add smoothing modifier

 

[tretch95]

Or for G3F, but i haven't tested or don't remember if it works the same

https://f95zone.to/threads/breast-utilities-glutes-utilities-soto.222447/

 

[ouch2020]

Hi. I have no experience with DAZ or Blender, but I'm thinking of creating characters based on real-life people. For my own personal use. Where can I get maximum accuracy? Blender or DAZ? Every program has their own face transfer tool. How difficult is it really?
What should I start learning... DAZ or Blender for this task is better?
Thanks.

Blender does have something, or there is some very good (but potentially more expensive) tool that you can use to create a 3d that can be even a full scan of the person (Wrap3d/Wrap4d comes to mind, but there are others), and by using the proper base mesh, can be used even to create something you can import in Daz or Blender.
DAZ has the advantage that the characters you create can have the look of the person, but at the same time be Genesis 3, 8, 9 (but even 2 and 1, depending on the tool), which means you can then use poses, geograft, clothes in DAZ like for any other character.
Disadvantages, the two tools I know of, Facegen and Headshop, effectively do only the face morph, for the rest, you have to use the libraries of morphs you can buy/find around.
Also neither of them has the ideal coverage, i.g. Facegen creates morphs for the face and full textures, but it is not good at faces with smiles or not full frontal, while Headshop is better at dealing with smiles and the like, but it does not create full character textures.

I am not considering face transfer, because the last version (face transfer 2, if I remember correctly) seems to have improved and started to do also some morphing of the face, but that is only for G9, and is anyway still mainly to transfer the picture of the face on a surface, not for creating a morph making the actual surface of the face look similar to the original.

 

[ouch2020]

Well,
Apologies because normally this thread is to ask questions, not give tips - but putting it in the "guides" thread seemed wrong, because it is not a step-by-step guide.

It is a know annoyance for people wanting to do HD, or convert HD characters, it is not possble to import them as HD in Daz Studio, because that requires a plugin available only for Daz Published Authors.
In reality, from what the Daz video shows, and looking at the old version of DAZ that had it that can luckily still be found even here on F95, it is a dll you put in the "plugins" folder and you activate in Daz from the plugins, but in reality seems more a patch for morph loader pro that implement one extra call (hence the dll library format), that activate the possibily to chose the subdivision level when importing, than a separate plugin.

In any case, for those who eventually have, and work, with Zbrush, be aware there is a possibilty that does not require you to become a PA with DAZ and pay daz an unknown amount for that plugin, and does not require you to install and try to use the old 4.6.2.120 version after you already everything set for a newer version, which is not a bad thing in itself, but not ideal because it seems that version by default did not use PostgreSQL (it not even showing the possibility to set the listening port in the preferences).

There is a plugin for zbrush that is even cheap (ca 14 USD for personal use, 37 USD for commercial, though I admit the commercial can be trickier), that allows you to create your HD morphs for Daz characters in Zbrush, and then save them in the dhdm file format that DAZ uses for HD morphs, so you can happily create your HD forms, without having to become a PA from DAZ and pay Daz for it.

You must be registered to see the links

NB Be aware, if you talk on a DAZ forum about this, they will remove the post saying the tool violates their EULA.
That is a fully fledged lie, since DAZ sells worldwide, and the tool in question does not use the DAZ code, does not even interact directly with DAZ.
When file formats are not disclosed, reverse engineering for compatibility purpose is fully legal in the EU by law, and even enforceable against the company that tries to create a de facto monopoly - Daz can put what they want in their EULA, but nothing they put there can violate the law.
It starts to sound like DAZ escaped anti-competition charges only thanks to being smaller and in a more niche market than e.g. Microsoft, thus drawing less attention, but as the same approaches.
I am really brooding for someone to create a software that can fully read and use DAZ assets with a similarly "simple" and stable interface (to save the investment I made), since actually DAZ itself read other formats, e.g. Poser, with a typical monopolistic attitude "everybody must be open to me, I am completely closed to everybody else".

 

[Pr0GamerJohnny]

Just out of interest. So you could load up assets (character and clothing) from DAZ into MD and change the morphing of an item according to the character and then load it into DAZ?

kinda. Yes, in short, but the morphs are based on the base g8f shape (or whatever base figure) - so you'll have to eyeball it from there.

 

[TheDevian]

Okay, here is a new issue for me. I am making a ouija board, and the texture on the pointer is not working in iRay for some reason.
Texture Shaded


Filament


iRay


I am stuck. lol

 

[Pr0GamerJohnny]

Okay, here is a new issue for me. I am making a ouija board, and the texture on the pointer is not working in iRay for some reason.
Texture Shaded
View attachment 5430642

Filament
View attachment 5430645

iRay
View attachment 5430648

I am stuck. lol

80% chance it's because daz plays screwy with the way it does smoothing groups and interprets triangulation and vertex normals.

Try lowering the shader smoothing threshold to 60 deg or 45 deg. Does it go away?

If not, you may have to manually tweak the vertex normals in wherever you created it.

In general I find it always has issues at boundaries between areas with very different mesh densities.

 

[TheDevian]

80% chance it's because daz plays screwy with the way it does smoothing groups and interprets triangulation and vertex normals.

Try lowering the shader smoothing threshold to 60 deg or 45 deg. Does it go away?

If not, you may have to manually tweak the vertex normals in wherever you created it.

In general I find it always has issues at boundaries between areas with very different mesh densities.

Nope. Was an interesting thought though. Thanks.

As for the UV maps, it's more or less perfect. I see no issues anyway.

 

[Pr0GamerJohnny]

Nope. Was an interesting thought though. Thanks.

As for the UV maps, it's more or less perfect. I see no issues anyway.
View attachment 5431627

have you looked at the vertex normals? not the polygon/face normals, but the vertex normals? If you post the obj i can show ya.