So if i understand well, you can be a female or androgynous and still have romance with female?
As someone who are leaning into being non binary, i find it strange that most of these game where the male character become a female, he cannot seek woman with romance.
I mean i'm biologically a male, i prefer if i could have been biologically a woman (except for the painfull menstruation) but that doesn't change my sexual orientation. In other word sexual identity (who i am )# sexual orientation (who i'm attracted to ) . Maybe it's because these game generally target more gay people? I dunno but i'm curious about why.
Anyways it's interesting that in this game, the MC can be attracted to woman, even if he transform. Nothing wrong with man who are into man and want to become a woman, i'm respectfully just not into that!
As someone who are leaning into being non binary, i find it strange that most of these game where the male character become a female, he cannot seek woman with romance.
I mean i'm biologically a male, i prefer if i could have been biologically a woman (except for the painfull menstruation) but that doesn't change my sexual orientation. In other word sexual identity (who i am )# sexual orientation (who i'm attracted to ) . Maybe it's because these game generally target more gay people? I dunno but i'm curious about why.
Anyways it's interesting that in this game, the MC can be attracted to woman, even if he transform. Nothing wrong with man who are into man and want to become a woman, i'm respectfully just not into that!
Yes, there're currently three girls who are potential ROs, and reading the update notes there might be 4th down the road (Noelle, your optional partner for Romeo & Juliet play, although i don't know if she's going to be a supporting character or full-fledged one)
In fact, at least one of the girls (Jessica) will currently only respond positively to romance attempts if MC is leaning towards feminine personality.
That said, there's quite a few transformation games which do support MC having relationship with women.
Last edited:
Added Bad Ending 2 and Neutral Ending 1 if you aren’t androgynous by Day 16......
so it isnt one route to stay a male???? to fight the curse is a "bad ending"? so choices only matter if you embrace to be a woman!? and thats worth such a high ratting?
so it isnt one route to stay a male???? to fight the curse is a "bad ending"? so choices only matter if you embrace to be a woman!? and thats worth such a high ratting?
The author has explained it a few posts up. The game would simply require more resources than they're able to provide (mostly the art assets) if it was to cover both female and male appearances for the MC. So they kinda have to give up on the male appearance branch.
That said, you don't necessarily get a "bad ending" if you want MC to be a guy. You can get "neutral ending" where you restore your appearance and have a nice epilogue. You also do have option to dislike being a woman as you keep playing, and potentially get a different ending later in the game. You just can't maintain male appearance throughout the entire thing.
Oh that's interesting that some girl aren't okay if you aren't more feminine. I like that.
"That said, there's quite a few transformation games which do support MC having relationship with women." -> Yeah they are, and i'm not deep into that genre so it could be my availability heuristics who biaised me. In short, i say that because the games i've played and saw made me this impression. My pannel here aren't representative of all game in the genre.
amaty there seems to be a bug with the Serena evaluation CG:
MC's hair in my play through is medium length (
I'd guess this is because the evaluation code
performs OR logic on the conditions for each image instead of AND --or that alternatively, it only checks the last "condition" for each of the entries, replacing/ignoring the earlier one(s)-- so as long as MC is wearing their hair loose, all 4 of those conditions are meet because
I'm guessing the same issue applies to long and medium variants of ponytail, too.
The simplest fix would be to generate a single value which represents both style and length, i.e something like
and then test:
edit: the same goes for masturbation CG.
Ethan doesn't have breasts in my playthrough but the game draws them here, likely because the
edit 2: on a completely different note, there seems to be a change in the early game that has a, perhaps unintended, side-effect:
This bit was changed to
The catch is, this significantly limits player's ability to advance their romance with Jessica:
After the change above, there's literally only two opportunities in game to gain necessary 5 transgender points for the 15+ total required here: one is picking that MC's most favorite day in their entire life was when he was dressed as a girl, which costs skill points provided by other options. The other is the option to "Explore Studio" on weekend which is completely optional and very easy to miss out on.
This makes Jessica romance considerably more restricted to advance than others RO routes, which have none of such limitations. Perhaps the
MC's hair in my play through is medium length (
hairProg variable is 2) but the CG applies all three hair variants to the composite, leading to long hair look for the MC, as you can see. If i remove the long variant from the game inventory you can see the shorter variant is also being applied:
I'd guess this is because the evaluation code
HTML:
{ "sourceUrl": "img/CGs/serenaEvaluation/serenaEvaluationshair.png", "condition": $serenaCGhair, "requirement": 0, "condition": $serenaCGhairStyle, "requirement": 0 },
{ "sourceUrl": "img/CGs/serenaEvaluation/serenaEvaluationshair.png", "condition": $serenaCGhair, "requirement": 1, "condition": $serenaCGhairStyle, "requirement": 0 },
{ "sourceUrl": "img/CGs/serenaEvaluation/serenaEvaluationmhair.png", "condition": $serenaCGhair, "requirement": 2, "condition": $serenaCGhairStyle, "requirement": 0 },
{ "sourceUrl": "img/CGs/serenaEvaluation/serenaEvaluationlhair.png", "condition": $serenaCGhair, "requirement": 3, "condition": $serenaCGhairStyle, "requirement": 0 },serenaCGhairStyle=0 part is met for all.I'm guessing the same issue applies to long and medium variants of ponytail, too.
The simplest fix would be to generate a single value which represents both style and length, i.e something like
<<set $serenaCGhair to $hairStyle * 10 + $hairProg>>and then test:
HTML:
{ "sourceUrl": "img/CGs/serenaEvaluation/serenaEvaluationmponyttail.png", "condition": $serenaCGhair, "requirement": 12 },
{ "sourceUrl": "img/CGs/serenaEvaluation/serenaEvaluationlponyttail.png", "condition": $serenaCGhair, "requirement": 13 },
{ "sourceUrl": "img/CGs/serenaEvaluation/serenaEvaluationshair.png", "condition": $serenaCGhair, "requirement": 0 },
{ "sourceUrl": "img/CGs/serenaEvaluation/serenaEvaluationshair.png", "condition": $serenaCGhair, "requirement": 1 },
{ "sourceUrl": "img/CGs/serenaEvaluation/serenaEvaluationmhair.png", "condition": $serenaCGhair, "requirement": 2 },
{ "sourceUrl": "img/CGs/serenaEvaluation/serenaEvaluationlhair.png", "condition": $serenaCGhair, "requirement": 3 },
Ethan doesn't have breasts in my playthrough but the game draws them here, likely because the
larm check for those bits which is listed last is passed.edit 2: on a completely different note, there seems to be a change in the early game that has a, perhaps unintended, side-effect:
Code:
<<if $d2hate is false>>\
<<set $masculinity to Math.clamp($masculinity - 5, 0, 100)>>\
<<set $femininity to Math.clamp($femininity + 5, 0, 100)>>\
<<set $transgender to Math.clamp($acceptance + 5, 0, 100)>>\
<<set $cisgender to Math.clamp($resistance - 5, 0, 100)>>\
The thought of becoming more feminine is scary and weird, for sure, but not disgusting. You don't think you'd hate it. Well, you'd see how the curse would go though.
Code:
<<if $d2hate is false>>\
<<set $masculinity to Math.clamp($masculinity - 5, 0, 100)>>\
<<set $femininity to Math.clamp($femininity + 5, 0, 100)>>\
<<set $acceptance to Math.clamp($acceptance + 5, 0, 100)>>\
<<set $resistance to Math.clamp($resistance - 5, 0, 100)>>\
The thought of becoming more feminine is scary and weird, for sure, but not disgusting. You don't think you'd hate it. Well, you'd see how the curse would go though.
Code:
<<elseif $d12boy is 3>>\
<<set $maleattraction to Math.clamp($maleattraction - 10, 0, 100)>>\
<<set $femaleattraction to Math.clamp($femaleattraction + 10, 0, 100)>>\
//...
<<if $d12makeup > 0 and $transgender > 14>>\
<<set $jessicaRelo to Math.clamp($jessicaRelo + 5, 0, 100)>>\
<<set $jessicaRomance to Math.clamp($jessicaRomance + 5, 0, 100)>>\This makes Jessica romance considerably more restricted to advance than others RO routes, which have none of such limitations. Perhaps the
transgender requirement here could be lowered to 10+ to account for reduced opportunities, especially considering that this way it'd match the other check the game performs elsewhere:
Code:
<<if $d12jessicaromantic is true>>\
<<if $d12makeup is 0 or $transgender < 10>>\
<<set $jessicaRomance to Math.clamp($jessicaRomance - 5, 0, 100)>>\
Last edited:
I've always wondered where the whole BNWO thing comes from. It's definitely wide-spread enough that I regularly encounter it, but what are the philosophical underpinnings of why it's popular?
*ADHD kicks in and brain nopes off to some other tangent.*
Homeland Security. The sheer insanity of it coupled with the amount it gets spammed on "certain" internet backwaters and pornographic sources leads one to suspect that it's just another psyop.
Hmm, after playing this update, to be honest it was a bit disappointing that when hanging out with Luke there's no option for MC to tell him about being on the cheerleader squad. I mean, this is a choice when hanging out with Jordan, but for some reason MC doesn't even consider telling about it his supposed best friend, and so if you didn't do it on day 12 then he's just kept in the dark.
Also, for an update that's supposedly all centered on the male ROs there's kind of surprising lack of any options to advance the "romance" aspect of relationships with them. Like, Jordan gets one, but that's basically it.
Also, for an update that's supposedly all centered on the male ROs there's kind of surprising lack of any options to advance the "romance" aspect of relationships with them. Like, Jordan gets one, but that's basically it.
Raanafur
Member
- Nov 11, 2017
- 121
- 93
I was sure I'd commented on this game before - I certainly had a number of things along these lines to say - but I guess I never got around to it. I'll fix that by doing my best to help you out with this, then!
It was something that immediately stood out to me when I was playing. The complication for this game (that is, the inciting incident that sets the initial state and scope of the story along with how these affect the character) is kinda weak and doesn't make a whole lot of sense unless the PC is already questioning his gender and we're given no indication of that by the setup. He doesn't even seem particularly troubled by anything. If some of those feelings were floating below the surface the situation you cooked up seems more suited to those sudden transformation games than a slow burn plot. Dealing with being in a totally different form would be the excuse to try all of those things.
You're not so far in that changing the complication would mean having to discard large chunks of what you've already written. Let's look at a few other games and get into what makes for a good one. Someone mentioned eWardrobe; that game sets up a scenario where the PC ends up creating a second identity. That complication works with the gameplay and the writing to show us that the character is either doing it begrudingly, which makes it a game that focuses on slowly taking him out of his comfort zone to have new experiences, curiously, which makes it a game where he can explore a few of these situations without feeling like he's doing something wrong (and maybe discovering some things that he likes in the process), or enthusiastically, which gives the sense that he chose to do something elaborate and kinda silly because it was a perfect excuse to be a she without being judged for it. There's a plausible character in all three versions and its complication is what gave it that flexible shape.
Magical Camp is another one: because there's a compelling reason within the complication for the PC to take on some changes, player choice is accomodated and through it there's always a sensible reasoning behind however much (or little) the player decides to change him.
Princess Trap was also brought up and that's another one where the scenario was very sharp in laying down strong reasoning behind every degree to which the character would need to engage in (and with) the disguise. There's a pressing need for it and reaons behind it which branch the story further (this is important for a complication, I'll elaborate on this in a sec) while ensuring that the story as a whole is cohesive.
Now let's look at yours. There's a curse, and it can be aggressive, but the reasoning behind it feels pretty arbitrary and even mean-spirited unless the PC is secretly transgender. It's plainly visible to other people, but there's no particular reason to hide it in your scenario. It's just something you can do; it's not this looming threat like it is in the above three games. There's also no reason to engage with it unless the player wants to (not the character - the player), which can only work with two of the three archetypes. For the 'begrudging/resisting' version of the character it's not even clear why he was cursed in the first place. Too many aspects rely on a loosey-goosey just-go-with-it attitude; that's why your scenario is working against you rather than for you.
Because it reads like you worked backwards from the transgender conclusion there's a sense hanging over it that there's only one viable PC archetype. A good initial complication is one that broadens rather than reduces the scope of the story. If it narrows down to something really specific, like yours does, it can end up being way too restrictive for a game that's trying to accomodate more than one playstyle. You want it to give you options that define the reasoning behind all of them.
It should be one that gives us a look into the main character as a person - especially if their identity is the major focus of the game; they should be someone we're intrigued by through the way they choose to deal with the material situation. Most importantly you want it to be working with the scenario you're planning as it carries you into the middle of the story to face new complications. If it feels like the story's not supporting itself, if you're constantly having to drag it to where you want it to go and your plot mechanisms seem arbitrary, it's because your initial complication wasn't a strong enough support structure for the plot.
Since there's no goal that needs to be achieved outside of dealing with the curse, it largely becomes a conflict of character vs. themselves with one obviously correct answer and two more that it's accomodating. The complication as-is splits our three character arcetypes too much; the "girl in the mirror" would be an outright villain from the perspective of the begrudging PC, a possibly-too-aggressive interpretation of the curious PC's interest, and a vision of our enthusiastic PC that they have no compelling reason to resist. You could flesh any of these out, but they'd be going in wildly different directions. Let's focus on brushing that up so that you have with a singular scenario interpreted three ways like our examples.
First off you need a goal that the curse complicates, something that the PC needs to achieve within this school year that gives him/her a reason to be sticking with this rather than, say...going to a bunch of doctors. Second, the natural/supernatural aspects are out of alignment here; your scenario should be adjusted so that it either defines a reason to keep it all secret or does away with the secrecy so that everyone knowing and being curious about it becomes a major aspect that the story can use. The finesse here will be building these so that the plot supports your multiple archetypes without simply forcing the player to get with the program if they want to keep playing. Adjusting the prologue material to suggest that there's something amiss and coming up with some reasoning that works for all of the character archetypes that you want to support will help with this. Next you need a reason to engage with the curse and a second look at what triggers it. Well, obviously only girls use moisturizer is both silly even for a game like this and something that the PC would obviously be trying to avoid if he's fighting it.
It may look like a tall order, but I don't believe that you need a full rewrite. Here's a quick and dirty example adjustment: following a dream about the 'girl in the mirror', the PC goes to the fortune teller, who's very overbearing about some feelings that she insists he's buried, to the point where she forces him to confront The Girl in her crystal ball and curses them to switch places. The PC wakes up in a mirror world that's both the same and offputtingly different from the one he knows. If he doesn't reconcile with The Girl over the course of the year then he'll be trapped in there, as she was, while the sanctimonious fortune teller allows her to take over his life. The transformation element comes from talking to The Girl, hearing things she wants to try (like, say, asking his sister about hairstyles), and his attitude when he goes about it determines the intensity of the transformation (bare minimum to saisfy her, trying it out and having a little fun with it, or going all out).
There's a goal, complete with a ticking clock element that compels you to engage with the curse element, a curse engagement mechanic that's less arbitrary, a scenario where you could either justify hiding the magic or bringing it out into the open depending on which would give you more writing options that you'd find interesting, and a way to flesh out The Girl into different metaphors without having to write completely different plotlines.
If you think on what you have I'm sure you can come up with something along these lines that'll allow your scenario to be more flexible and supportive without having to go "I love this scene, but how do I justify it if the player isn't going the trans route?".
In all fairness the only doctor you're getting attention of with announcement you've been cursed and now your body magically changes when you do something "girly" would be a psychiatrist, and maybe not even them.
This would result in a drastically different story, imo -- the main point this one has going for it and what makes it stand out is that the transformations are, for the most part, MC exploring their identity largely at their own pace and reconciling with himself. Not with a third party, hostile and selfish entity issuing orders and threatening to take over his life.
I also don't see how you'd accomplish this change without a pretty much full rewrite, something you claimed wouldn't be needed in this scenario.
Last edited:
That's just an off-the-cuff example, not a 'real' suggestion. The problem is that the game is mismatched with itself. In letting the player control the entire thing (and not providing any character reasons for the MC to -want- to do any of this), the plot depends on the player wanting to play it a certain way. The writing for wanting to play any other way is stumbling to justify itself. That's backwards.
The example setup I chose was one where The Girl would say that she wants to go to the party to demonstrate a plot setup where the author can use the stronger plot structure to determine what you do while the player can choose how to do it. As-is the game literally says "uuuh you can not go if you really don't want to, but..." to plead with you to engage with it.
Fixing it would require some rewrites and additions to recontextualize what are currently just arbitrary decisions the player makes on behalf of the MC, but a structure that does what the author needs it to do would pay off in the long run. The basic premise and vast majority of its scenes could be preserved, I think, it just needs a complication that aligns everything correctly.
The example setup I chose was one where The Girl would say that she wants to go to the party to demonstrate a plot setup where the author can use the stronger plot structure to determine what you do while the player can choose how to do it. As-is the game literally says "uuuh you can not go if you really don't want to, but..." to plead with you to engage with it.
Fixing it would require some rewrites and additions to recontextualize what are currently just arbitrary decisions the player makes on behalf of the MC, but a structure that does what the author needs it to do would pay off in the long run. The basic premise and vast majority of its scenes could be preserved, I think, it just needs a complication that aligns everything correctly.
The other direction would be leaning into its self-exploration aspect, but that would require a lot more rewrite work. The issue here is that the dev wanted to approach things a different way (and a lot of us who played it appreciated that) but stuck too closely to TFGS writing conventions which are all geared toward forced situations. Right now it's in an awkward position where the plot is a very much a forced transformation setup but the actual gameplay and writing are all super accommodating and player choice focused. That plot structure is working against the story and the author is finding it hard to cater the plot to a refusal to engage with it.
The tl;dr of my advice was to fix this misalignment by making it a bit more forced but leaving the engagement attitude and degree largely up to the player. That's what most of the successful games like this have done and it's a winning formula.
The tl;dr of my advice was to fix this misalignment by making it a bit more forced but leaving the engagement attitude and degree largely up to the player. That's what most of the successful games like this have done and it's a winning formula.
