It seems that 99% of non-JP games use these and it's been around 5 years since I started playing these. It feels as though every new character I see in a game I've already seen in several different places in the past and it just massively takes away from the experience. Also, a lot of people just use the exact same genitals for every character and that just makes it feel like I'm not seeing different people, takes away a lot of the enjoyment I guess.
Anyone else getting bored of Daz/HS/KK models?
- Thread starter Checkered Pangolin
- Start date
- Oct 18, 2018
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Anyone else getting bored of JP games using anime characters all the time?
It seems that 99% of JP games use these and it's been around 5 years since I started playing these. It feels as though every new character I see in a game I've already seen in several different places in the past and it just massively takes away from the experience. Also, a lot of people just use the exact same censor-bar for every character and that just makes it feel like I'm not seeing different people, takes away a lot of the enjoyment I guess.
It seems that 99% of JP games use these and it's been around 5 years since I started playing these. It feels as though every new character I see in a game I've already seen in several different places in the past and it just massively takes away from the experience. Also, a lot of people just use the exact same censor-bar for every character and that just makes it feel like I'm not seeing different people, takes away a lot of the enjoyment I guess.
- Sep 13, 2016
- 3,540
- 7,112
I'm surprised it took you 5 years to get bored of them.
It took me playing the first two or three LoP games using the exact same models to realize the issue.
It took me playing the first two or three LoP games using the exact same models to realize the issue.
- Apr 7, 2022
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This is the downside to 3D models (and the anime art style), they're overused and everyone has seen them. I haven't really become bored of them yet though and the anime art style in games have been around since forever. Plus, at least with DAZ, the morphing options, when used, can create completely unique characters.
I've never been impressed with HS or KK models but DAZ models are only getting better and better to me. There are tons of character options and they can be morphed and combined into something completely different. It's also pretty easy to do so I'm not sure why other developers don't do it more (other than laziness of course). As an example from my game, one of my characters has been morphed into a model that is completely different from what I used as the base.
Here is the character from my game:
Here is the model used as a base:
Completely different. Though this included some texturing work as well as morphs. Not saying the model in my game is necessarily better than the base model, I simply wanted to show what was possible.
As mentioned, DAZ is getting better and better, the jump from V4 to Genesis 7 was absolutely massive and then to Genesis 8. Now we're at Genesis 8.1 and is by far the most sophisticated 3D character base that is commercially available and easily used. You CAN create very good looking models and scenes with little to no uncanny valley feeling with enough practice, but some people are more sensitive to the uncanny valley effect than others.
As for genitals, you can produce a decent variety of these too, but might require extra textures and morphs. Dicktator v3 (and onwards) is probably the most customizable penis asset with tons of morphs and texturing options. For vaginas there are two commonly used options, NGV8 and Golden Palace. Both are fine, though I prefer NGV8 for variety in morphing options.
All in all, even though anime art has been around forever, I'm still not bored of it and DAZ is just getting better. What I'd like to see more of though is a more stylized set of DAZ models in addition to the current focus realism. There are some options that exist for this, but they're rather few.
I've never been impressed with HS or KK models but DAZ models are only getting better and better to me. There are tons of character options and they can be morphed and combined into something completely different. It's also pretty easy to do so I'm not sure why other developers don't do it more (other than laziness of course). As an example from my game, one of my characters has been morphed into a model that is completely different from what I used as the base.
Here is the character from my game:
Here is the model used as a base:
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Completely different. Though this included some texturing work as well as morphs. Not saying the model in my game is necessarily better than the base model, I simply wanted to show what was possible.
As mentioned, DAZ is getting better and better, the jump from V4 to Genesis 7 was absolutely massive and then to Genesis 8. Now we're at Genesis 8.1 and is by far the most sophisticated 3D character base that is commercially available and easily used. You CAN create very good looking models and scenes with little to no uncanny valley feeling with enough practice, but some people are more sensitive to the uncanny valley effect than others.
As for genitals, you can produce a decent variety of these too, but might require extra textures and morphs. Dicktator v3 (and onwards) is probably the most customizable penis asset with tons of morphs and texturing options. For vaginas there are two commonly used options, NGV8 and Golden Palace. Both are fine, though I prefer NGV8 for variety in morphing options.
All in all, even though anime art has been around forever, I'm still not bored of it and DAZ is just getting better. What I'd like to see more of though is a more stylized set of DAZ models in addition to the current focus realism. There are some options that exist for this, but they're rather few.
- Oct 18, 2018
- 453
- 1,226
TBH these discussions are getting rather trite at this point.
Seems like we can't go more than a week without someone else making a thread either claiming "JP art/games #1 Western art/games are trash!" or how DAZ/HS/KK is over used.
It's getting boring watching people argue the same points over and over ad-infinitum.
Or ad-nauseam I suppose at point.
Seems like we can't go more than a week without someone else making a thread either claiming "JP art/games #1 Western art/games are trash!" or how DAZ/HS/KK is over used.
It's getting boring watching people argue the same points over and over ad-infinitum.
Or ad-nauseam I suppose at point.
- Jun 4, 2022
- 284
- 2,102
Short answer: no 
People usually don't complain about seeing the same faces in TV shows or movies (or in porn....), do they?
Just consider VNs still images taken from a tv show or movie with actors and accept that creating unique 3D models from scratch is no easy task. Why spent ages trying to learn how to create a 3D model when you can simply use premade assets? This lowers the entry hurdle and hobbyists (most devs here are amateurs) can create games without needing to worry about creating everything, they can focus on posing, writing, rendering instead of making unique 3D models.
So devs use the same assets, change a few details like hair, make-up, adjust some sliders, maybe mix up a few things like you do with Mr Potatohead (you can morph models) and then go ahead. There is a reason you see the same hairstyles all across VN land... I suggest you try to make your own 3D hair. This is a skill most people don't have and which would be very expensive to outsource, especially if it's supposed to be a unique asset not to be sold to other people via the DAZ store or so. So few games have truly unique 3D assets.
But as was pointed out by MarbleCrown you can basically "Mr Potatohead" DAZ models (crude analogy) and customize them until they look more or less unique. So why don't more people do that? Maybe they just like how how that one character in that one game looks and want to use the exact same model as well (as if the DAZ model were an actor), or maybe they are a bit lazy.
As long as ambitious hobbyists and Patreon devs instead of actual gaming studios with manpower and financial resources create (Western) VNs this will not change.
People usually don't complain about seeing the same faces in TV shows or movies (or in porn....), do they?
Just consider VNs still images taken from a tv show or movie with actors and accept that creating unique 3D models from scratch is no easy task. Why spent ages trying to learn how to create a 3D model when you can simply use premade assets? This lowers the entry hurdle and hobbyists (most devs here are amateurs) can create games without needing to worry about creating everything, they can focus on posing, writing, rendering instead of making unique 3D models.
So devs use the same assets, change a few details like hair, make-up, adjust some sliders, maybe mix up a few things like you do with Mr Potatohead (you can morph models) and then go ahead. There is a reason you see the same hairstyles all across VN land... I suggest you try to make your own 3D hair. This is a skill most people don't have and which would be very expensive to outsource, especially if it's supposed to be a unique asset not to be sold to other people via the DAZ store or so. So few games have truly unique 3D assets.
But as was pointed out by MarbleCrown you can basically "Mr Potatohead" DAZ models (crude analogy) and customize them until they look more or less unique. So why don't more people do that? Maybe they just like how how that one character in that one game looks and want to use the exact same model as well (as if the DAZ model were an actor), or maybe they are a bit lazy.
As long as ambitious hobbyists and Patreon devs instead of actual gaming studios with manpower and financial resources create (Western) VNs this will not change.
- Sep 25, 2020
- 224
- 646
I think too much focus is put on the models, when it should be on the lighting. Doesn't matter how good the model looks if the lighting is bad, but spectacular lighting can make a scene look great even if the model is meh.
Also, where the Unreal metahumans at?
Also, where the Unreal metahumans at?
The problem with that is that 2DCG is more likely to have different styles, and look fresh and unique.
Anyone can open up DAZ3D, place a few characters and hit render with all default settings or very few edits, which is probably the majority of games in here.
In a better world, everyone using DAZ3D would have much different settings and styles in order to look unique (like a few games do), and anime would stop looking so generic and went back to stylized just like it used to be in the past.
- Oct 18, 2018
- 453
- 1,226
Wooooosh.
It's an alteration of the thread title, just like how the rest of that post is an alteration of the OP itself. You literally just argued a mockery.
- Sep 4, 2017
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I'm not really bored since I nearly never try to play games using 3D characters, it have a very strong uncanny valley effect on me.
And if you're not yourself a very talented artist and prefer 2D art then Good luck with that as it's really expensive and price can skyrocket easily.
- Want to have all art used only for your game and never published anywhere else by the artist ?
That's an extra.
- Wanna make money out of your game and have a commercial use of the art ?
That's an extra
- Wanna have animated CGS ?
That's an extra too.
And if you're not yourself a very talented artist and prefer 2D art then Good luck with that as it's really expensive and price can skyrocket easily.
- Want to have all art used only for your game and never published anywhere else by the artist ?
That's an extra.
- Wanna make money out of your game and have a commercial use of the art ?
That's an extra
- Wanna have animated CGS ?
That's an extra too.
- Aug 3, 2017
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I've never really understood this view, you have the same actors and actresses in movies and tv series and you see them over and over again. Some people even go to watch a movie or start a series only because their "favorite" actor / actress is in it.
When people and ideas get famous they get used alot, it only makes sense for that pattern to follow into gaming.
The experience is in the writing and the relationships between the characters and the atmosphere set, if having the same face in different stories is taking away from the experience then you might be in the minority in feeling that way because it's how the entertainment business has kept people entertained for decades.
We're making a cg comic (highly stylized from daz3d models, still in R&D), but I can't imagine actually selling the comic individually for like 10 bucks. I'd think it'd be better to just throw up everything we have for free here, and people will show support in our "brand" if it's different/creative enough. Would that be a better approach?
I feel like its less of derivative model issue, but also the constant pitching of paywalls for it.
- Jul 16, 2019
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As a huge pregnancy fan I really wish DAZ models would finally get the preggo belly right. In most games it looks rather strange... another issue with DAZ seems to be the lack of realistic clothing morphing. Not sure what it's actually called but you probably know what I mean. You often see women wearing a top and it just looks like it's skin tight around the breasts even tho it's supposed to be a loose shirt.
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- Jun 10, 2017
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I agree with what you said, but want to moderate this particular point.
There's few cases when the use of a particular model bring back really bad feelings and can effectively bring down the story for you. By example I can't stand the model used for Max in Big Brother, and never achieved to feel a start of interest for any game where it's used.
But it's something personal, that finally don't really differ from a question of personal taste. And anyway, here again the exact same can be said for actors. We all have few that we can't stand at all, and who can lead us to not see a movie because they stars in it.
- Jun 10, 2017
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It's called: "the guy who make the render should have past 10 minutes searching on the net how to solve this thing that isn't at all a Daz issue, and can be solved really easily."
- Jun 4, 2022
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I've encounterd the term "boob socks" here on F95
I suppose that's a side effect of conforming clothing to the body so it fits the model. I am no DAZ expert, I can't say if there are options in DAZ to manually adjust how tight a top is around the chest area. You do get the same effect with socks many times, they hug each individual toe almost like a glove.Ok, I got curious.. it actually took me 5 seconds to find a video tutorial via Google that tells you how to solve that issue. I wonder why few people ever bother doing that though?
Honestly, no. I'm tired of not having the skills to use something different, for sure. However I absolutely enjoy all these kk/hs/daz games made by other people. There's some amazing artists out there that breed life into their characters and it's an absolute pleasure to play their games and see the result of their work.
Sure, not everyone is as amazing, but that's just an issue of quality for a large majority of the games. It's not only an issue with western games. Even JP games have some super trashy games that I uninstall almost right away because they're near-unplayable or the models/sex scenes are not what I thought they would be.
Tldr: No, as long as it's well executed, I'm perfectly happy with games that use those way of getting graphics.
- Jul 31, 2018
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1) It is solvable, and even easier with a couple of paid products. But it can be tedious.
2) I get the feeling some people like the tube sock look around giant breasts.