Anyone use Daz3d with Octane or Redshift?

Domiek

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I'm curious to see what your workflow and process looks like. I know Octane now has a Daz plugin which makes preview and render really convenient. Redshift doesnt have that, yet is supposed to be even faster due to it being biased rendering.

So whats your workflow look like with either renderer?

What was it like covering iray shaders to either renderer?

How does render speed compare to iray?

Has your overall speed/workflow improved when compared to iray?

Any other bits of wisdom you'd like to share?

@carnalcardinal and @Philly_Games , I believe you both are using Octane, right?
 

Philly_Games

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Yeah using octane now, but only a couple weeks in. Maybe 100 hours in it so far.

Render speeds with it are odd. Sometimes I can do a render up to 10K iterations in like 5 minutes. Other times 30 minutes. Still it's far faster than IRay, the speed currently is offset by setting up textures and an environment which takes far longer. Most of my time now is devoted to posing, expressions and getting around the octane quirks or changes im not familiar with.

Converting textures will depend on your knowledge of shaders. For me I had a bit of background with it. Daz doesn't count, only a small portion of it is the same. Skin is the big one. I used redspec to get an initial look and went from there. Eyes i probably spent a good hour or so on each model to get right. Wet skin is still a mystery though.

I am currently slower, there is no batch so my workflow changed for that. But with the increased render speeds I am finding I can spit out more renders each night than before depending on the scene. But the initial setup takes hours for a scene. This Saturday for instance I did get 20 renders done though, week previous I managed to get 10 done on a Saturday. That is pretty good. I know I will get faster and faster as well.

Basically everything you know about lighting and textures from daz. Forget it. It is almost all useless on a technical standpoint. Fundamentals dont change but the nit and gritty does.

So it also has a lot of hoops at first. Here is a list. Remember I have just started with it so this is in no way accurate. Many of these could be easily rectified. I just don't know how yet. I will probably repeat myself from above as well a few times.
* Anything close to the camera should be retextured or at least adjusted.
* You need to save your presets for the environment and render settings. I don't save those with the duf. You may be able to, but it has yet to work consistently for me.
* Skin looks AWFUL by default. You need to be very picky on textures as well. Redspec helps with this but still needs to be adjusted.
* There is no more dual globe so I am still trying to figure out wet skin, though in daz i never really got that down.
* You need to learn the quirks between how lights work in preview and final render (that is an option in octane). For normal renders i let it cook in the preview window till done. Final is sketchy.
* Animations are a bit odd on the focus point but i think I have figured that one out.
* You really need to understand shading. Basic Daz doesnt cut it anymore.
* Some daz textures will import very odd and will have opacities set where they shouldn't. I have found this is because it sets a float value that is linked to both roughness and opacity. Typically I find this with items such as glass. There is a system called a node editor where this is easily corrected. It's intimidating but you have to learn it or you may as well not use octane at all because its essential.
* There is no batch currently. So I had to adjust my workflow to ensure animations are queued up when im away sleeping and at work.
* You have to understand the render settings which are huge. Items such as GI Clamp, diffuse and specular depth. I suggest reading through the entire octane manual to get a sense of what each one does because you will be adjusting these from scene to scene.
* There are no spots or point lights. They do not exist. Everything is a mesh light. I setup a 5 point light rig with cameras attached to planes and one circle to manage this as a subset.
* You need to understand an entirely new form of lighting, though this should be relatively quick if u have ever used mesh lights in Daz. I have found using the simple light emitter works best. You can change its temp but if you do you need to adjust its power. Or you can add a color node to it in the node graph editor for different colors. JUST learned that 2 days ago!
* When you setup an animation you need to ensure you use the correct presets from before. As mentioned early i save these out so i import them back in load them for the animation and let it rip.
 
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Domiek

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Awesome, thanks for the well thought out response! Can I ask why you made the switch from iray to octane? I want to do more dark interior scenes and have grainy/lengthy renders with iray, which I thought octane should do better. On top of that the motion blur for animations as well as overall faster renders (once you become comfortable with the new tools).

Does Octane preview load faster than Iray? I know i don't like waiting the 1-3 minutes for Iray preview to render.

I'll prob download the demo tonight and tinker with it.
 

Philly_Games

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Does darker hence why i switched. I didn't change up because it was fashionable. I did so because it suited the style i want more effectively. I think i have set in stone I like dark shots.

As for the preview it is two fold. It will start doing your render instantly. It doesnt stop soon after. You instantly see the render as its generating. So when i have everything i need i step away. I dont hit render or anything like that. The preview will build to completion.
 
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thecardinal

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I agree with a lot of what Philly said. The lighting thing is a big hurdle to get over.

But one thing I should mention is that Octane had a gigantic texture library that you can very easily put into a scene. Just drag one the many (literally hundreds) wood shaders over the wood texture that comes with the scene. BAM. instantly shaded.

But yes, knowing the node graphs is another thing to get around. The learning curve for Octane is a lot steeper and the forums are pretty much dead,so it's a lot of stumbling through the dark to figure out shit that works.

The preview works very fast, a complicated scene will start rendering within a minute. And while the tender is going, you can mess with the gamma's and saturations and camera filters without disturbing the tender and making it start over. Super cool.
 
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Philly_Games

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yeah techincally you can adjust things like bloom and white point in iray. Something Pink showed me and it wont stop the render but its SLOOOW and very clunky. Adjusting gamma / bloom / and other effects is instant in octane. There are also nice things like the hot pixel remover but make sure you dont slide that guy down to much or you will degrade the image slightly. But if i see a hot pixel u slowly move it down WHILE its rendering until it goes away. Really cool.
 
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thecardinal

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Oh. And definitely faster than iray. My workflow is usually make the scenes in Daz, then you have to start rendering them, just for a second (no idea why this is required), then export an '.orbx' to Octane standalone, render they while I set up the next scene. Being able to pose while you render is a big plus, but then again so is batch rendering (which Octane sadly does not have).

I never used iray once for my game, and going through my game thread you can literally see me get more used to Octane.

And feel free to hit me up on Discord, I'm on almost every day for a few hours. Trying to figure some shit out like eye reflections can keep you up for hours.

It doesn't help that most of the advice on the forums are for older versions of Octane with early generation Daz models.
 
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Domiek

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Awesome, thank you both for your feedback. I'm excited to try the demo now and the $20 subscription model makes it more affordable right out the gate.

Final question: if I switch to Octane mid development, how obvious will it be? My main concern being that some of the custom build character skins will need to be rebuilt within Octane and will make my girls look different.
 

Domiek

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Oh. And definitely faster than iray. My workflow is usually make the scenes in Daz, then you have to start rendering them, just for a second (no idea why this is required), then export an '.orbx' to Octane standalone, render they while I set up the next scene. Being able to pose while you render is a big plus, but then again so is batch rendering (which Octane sadly does not have).

I never used iray once for my game, and going through my game thread you can literally see me get more used to Octane.

And feel free to hit me up on Discord, I'm on almost every day for a few hours. Trying to figure some shit out like eye reflections can keep you up for hours.

It doesn't help that most of the advice on the forums are for older versions of Octane with early generation Daz models.
Do you not have the octane plugin for Daz, or do you prefer your current workflow instead? I imagine it to be very convenient to have an octane window on one screen for previews as you tinker with your scene in daz.

I'll def take you up on that offer and bug you on discord :)
 
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thecardinal

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It will, no doubt about it. And Octane generally looks better if you start with 3delight shaders. I think Philly waited to complete his game before switching to the new engine, but there isn't a wrong or right way to do it. But try it out, post some shots comparing the two and see what the fans think.


And yes, I have the plug-in and the standalone. You can get by with just the plug-in or just the standalone, I've rendered just using one or the other in the past, I started about a year and a half ago.
 
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Domiek

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It will, no doubt about it. And Octane generally looks better if you start with 3delight shaders. I think Philly waited to complete his game before switching to the new engine, but there isn't a wrong or right way to do it. But try it out, post some shots comparing the two and see what the fans think.


And yes, I have the plug-in and the standalone. You can get by with just the plug-in or just the standalone, I've rendered just using one or the other in the past, I started about a year and a half ago.
Perfect, you both covered exactly every question I hoped to get answered, thank you.

I'll play the demo and if I like it will probably make the switch. It will suck if I can't get the skins right but my game's main goal was for me to practice and learn every part of development. Would rather learn Octane now than waiting a couple of years just "to be safe".
 

thecardinal

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Perfect, you both covered exactly every question I hoped to get answered, thank you.

I'll play the demo and if I like it will probably make the switch. It will suck if I can't get the skins right but my game's main goal was for me to practice and learn every part of development. Would rather learn Octane now than waiting a couple of years just "to be safe".
The demo won't do it justice. It will be very fast compared to iray, but you really need to have the plug-in and the right shaders.

The base skins will most likely look bad. Get Redspec shaders, you can find it on zonegfx and 3dload. And get the one for hair too, download all the redspec shaders you can. Lie, cheat, and steal to get Redspec.

But yeah, I have no idea why more people aren't using Octane. But I'm also extremely biased about unbiased engines.
 

Domiek

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One more thing change your kernel from direct lighting to path right away if u care about sss and real reflections and shadows.
So you switched for dark scenes. In your two week experience, has it been a big boost in terms of render speed and render quality in low light settings? That's what I'm most excited about. I want to have more dynamic lighting without spending 2 hours per render.
 

Philly_Games

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Oh yeah. They still take longer than normal but far faster, 30 minutes has been my longest render time. I am now using a 2080ti and a 1080ti and im going to 12K iterations.
 
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Domiek

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Jesus, used nothing but the sun set to night time to do a quick low light test run. Took 5:30 minutes. Didn't do any sort of fiddling. I think I'm going to enjoy learning this software. Thank you two!

test.png
 
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f95zoneuser463

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*checks FAQ on Octane and Redshift out of curiosity*
  • Octane requires CUDA
  • Redshift requires CUDA
  • Iray requires CUDA
Forever Nvidia without a choice. Price: your kidney!
*rage intensifies*
 

Domiek

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*checks FAQ on Octane and Redshift out of curiosity*
  • Octane requires CUDA
  • Redshift requires CUDA
  • Iray requires CUDA
Forever Nvidia without a choice. Price: your kidney!
*rage intensifies*
Pretty much everything uses nvidia other than cpu renderers. I think blender can use amd cards.

You can also ease into it with a cheaper card like a 1060.
 

thecardinal

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Yeah, I started with just a 1050 card. You get way more bang for your buck if you have a low-end you.
 

lancelotdulak

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I bought a 1060 3gb based on price to performance (it's a serious sweet spot). Didnt realise iray needs to load everything into gpu mem so ugh. 1070 is a Huge upgrade on the 1060 and of course the 1080ti is the shit.. but im a cheap bastard. Upside we have all the pro's dumping their 1080ti's on ebay as they move to 2080's and rtx's soon

I forgot the most important thing all of us forgot to mention. Get Redspec's skin texturee set. Literally EVERYONE who uses octane uses it
 
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