HTML Apocalyptic World [v0.61a] [ttyrke]

[Rycharde's Realm]

0.09b PATCH: MEGA (ignore the version mentioned in game. Forgot to change that. Online version has right v)

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Every time I see you have added a bug fix I dive right in and try to download it until I realize I play online. D'oh!

 

[Rycharde's Realm]

Concerning the beauty depending of the age I can't agree, I know some uggly young women and some charment elder ones.

Anyway this is subjective and "beauty" criteria depends of each guy

I think beauty would be replaced by "Charisma" which is a larger idea of the taste of a girl.

I understand what you are getting at... sorta.

I see the term he is using, beauty, as being her physical appearance. True, a subjective term; I see one type of female much more than another, while others view it differently.

Charisma, IMHO, is beauty + personality. A lacking and subjective outlook, but seeing a slave for sale on the stage or in a cage doesn't show her personality and quirks that would help an individual see her quality.

But, at present, I think ttyrke is doing well.

 

[Briheas]

What type of macromanagement you got in mind?
Any ideas how to make guests more unique? My idea for one of next releases would be that you could bring guests to dates. Nothing fancy but still.

Yeah, you're probably 2nd or 3rd you said that about hunting. Hunting was created more of a "don't want to do anything else tonight" but idea was that it's reusable so I could implement it anywhere in go, so some events where you need to shoot, not deer but other enemies, etc.

Production summaries, how many people are doing what jobs, expected production/consumption of resources. Possibly the ability to mass change worker's jobs, either by percentage or actual # of workers on each type of job. Maybe mass interactions so I don't have to go one by one to increase relationship/submission.

Guests could have a 50% production bonus. I would also recommend an overseer job (only fillable by guests) that will increase the production of 4 slaves per overseer. That would encourage a 4:1 ratio of slaves:guests for cost efficiency, while still giving benefits to a 100% guest build. If you think that's too strong. you could balance it by nerfing slaves by 33%, meaning guests would have current levels of productions and slaves would have a penalty. Locking advanced jobs as guests only would work, but this depends on what kind of slave:guest ratio you want players to have.

It's fine to have guests be dateable, but I'd view that as a bonus perk, not a primary reason to make someone a guest. Since guests have actual material costs over slaves, they should also have material benefits as well.

You don't need hunting to be an energy dump. There's plenty of energy dumps, like exercising or increasing submission. What you need was a 0 energy time dump, which is what hunting used to be.

As you might tell from my comments, I'm coming from the point of view of gameplay, not sex rewards. So I treat my slaves as work slaves, not sex slaves. Besides, everything is limited by energy, so I don't have any energy to waste on sex.

 

[Strec]

Guests could have a 50% production bonus.

Any logical reason for that?

In my mind there are 2 things that can influence production (except the physical stats that mus be the base):
- Extreme love (devotion)
- Extreme fear (submission)
- Broken state (unable to maintain any willpower and accept all)

Beeing a guest could give a love bonus, why not, but I don't really see why a guest would produce more than a broken slave.

Beeing in an apocalyptic world, where one of the first action of the MC is to eat his grandpa, seems to be more oriented to rough and harsh attitude than to caring and loving ones. Be careful on introducing carebearing in such worlds

 

[ttyrke]

Any logical reason for that?

In my mind there are 2 things that can influence production (except the physical stats that mus be the base):
- Extreme love (devotion)
- Extreme fear (submission)
- Broken state (unable to maintain any willpower and accept all)

Beeing a guest could give a love bonus, why not, but I don't really see why a guest would produce more than a broken slave.

Beeing in an apocalyptic world, where one of the first action of the MC is to eat his grandpa, seems to be more oriented to rough and harsh attitude than to caring and loving ones. Be careful on introducing carebearing in such worlds

Yes! I tend to keep the game a bit "dark". I even want to kill, or at least make you choose what to do with some main characters. I've already got an idea about Vincent

 

[Strec]

If you consider that breeding could be developped in the future it could be interesting to be able to enslave male NPCs too, as the classical objective of breeding is to obtain better slaves in each generation, by crossing the stats of a father and a mother.

 

[forgetmaster]

Concerning the beauty depending of the age I can't agree, I know some uggly young women and some charment elder ones.

Anyway this is subjective and "beauty" criteria depends of each guy

I think beauty would be replaced by "Charisma" which is a larger idea of the taste of a girl.

I was talking about general beauty, like without signs of aging and stuff. but charisma also makes sense

 

[forgetmaster]

Yes! I tend to keep the game a bit "dark". I even want to kill, or at least make you choose what to do with some main characters. I've already got an idea about Vincent

I can see this going the way of MC's granddad

 

[forgetmaster]

If you consider that breeding could be developped in the future it could be interesting to be able to enslave male NPCs too, as the classical objective of breeding is to obtain better slaves in each generation, by crossing the stats of a father and a mother.

But But.... I wanna Fuck em all

 

[Briheas]

Any logical reason for that?

In my mind there are 2 things that can influence production (except the physical stats that mus be the base):
- Extreme love (devotion)
- Extreme fear (submission)
- Broken state (unable to maintain any willpower and accept all)

Beeing a guest could give a love bonus, why not, but I don't really see why a guest would produce more than a broken slave.

Beeing in an apocalyptic world, where one of the first action of the MC is to eat his grandpa, seems to be more oriented to rough and harsh attitude than to caring and loving ones. Be careful on introducing carebearing in such worlds

Put yourself in their shoes: A guest is there by their own free will, meaning they want to be working on that farm. A slave is forced to work. Are you really saying that you would be working just as hard if you were forced to work vs if you wanted to work?

Anyway, that's the purpose of the overseer job - to, shall we say, motivate the slaves to work as hard as a free worker. Without an overseer (which is the current state of the game - neither you, nor anyone else, are watching your slaves work), the only thing keeping slaves from fleeing is the shackles keeping them there. But why would they work hard under those conditions?

I can't speak for anyone else, but when I'm working, my love and/or fear of the CEO of my company do NOT make me work any harder. But I can tell you that if I was forced to be there against my will, I would certainly be working a lot less hard.

Edit: The above is the Watsonian reason. The Doylist (and, in my opinion, more important reason) is that guesthouses cost more than slave cells to build, so unless guests can offer some benefit over slaves, it's more efficient to simply build slave cells and never upgrade them to guests. This would render the entire guest mechanic useless.

 

[Strec]

Edit: The above is the Watsonian reason. The Doylist (and, in my opinion, more important reason) is that guesthouses cost more than slave cells to build, so unless guests can offer some benefit over slaves, it's more efficient to simply build slave cells and never upgrade them to guests. This would render the entire guest mechanic useless.

The first idea coming in my mind reading this is to reverse: what is the interest of having slaves if guests produce more?

More seriously there are many ways to make guests useful without putting them in basic work and you said this yourself before, guests could be here to manage the slaves, indirectly increasing their production.

 

[queefdesu]

are pregnancies doomed to fail 100% or what ? feels so dissapointing

 

[ttyrke]

are pregnancies doomed to fail 100% or what ? feels so dissapointing

A lot of miscarrages? Remove work assignment

 

[Strec]

A lot of miscarrages? Remove work assignment

Concerning chance of miscarriage I think it would depend of the job, I understand a high chance of miscarriage while whoring but less when gardening ^^

 

[Briheas]

The first idea coming in my mind reading this is to reverse: what is the interest of having slaves if guests produce more?

More seriously there are many ways to make guests useful without putting them in basic work and you said this yourself before, guests could be here to manage the slaves, indirectly increasing their production.

Because slaves inherently cost less than guests. Lower cost --> Lower production, Higher cost --> Higher production.

Getting a new slave essentially costs 60 caps/60 energy for the new cell, and then another 50 or so caps to buy one (or about 240 energy if you try to find one in the wild), so let's say 110 caps. A guest costs 100 caps/60 energy to build the room, then the 50 or so caps to buy a slave, then the energy/time upgrading them to the point that they won't flee when freed (let's say 200 energy = 40 caps), so a guest essentially costs 190 caps.

So this leaves the player with the option to:
Go the cheap route: focus mostly on slaves, since they cost less and produce less
Go the expensive route: focus mostly on guests, since they will maximize per capita production, while also having a fewer of them due to cost
Go the mixed route: have both in some sort of ratio that will depend on how they interact.

If you go the "guests only manage slaves", then that basically railroads players into the 3rd option. I think it's better to give the player more options on how they want to handle their workforce.

Though from my experiences, since money basically has no upper limit to how much you can earn in a day, but energy is capped at 120 per day, eventually you will be able to essentially get 1-2 slaves per day, but you can only upgrade a slave to guest once every 2 days or so. So I suspect every player will always have some slaves, simply because you can't upgrade them fast enough. Though that might change if other ways of building stats are added.

 

[ttyrke]

Because slaves inherently cost less than guests. Lower cost --> Lower production, Higher cost --> Higher production.

Getting a new slave essentially costs 60 caps/60 energy for the new cell, and then another 50 or so caps to buy one (or about 240 energy if you try to find one in the wild), so let's say 110 caps. A guest costs 100 caps/60 energy to build the room, then the 50 or so caps to buy a slave, then the energy/time upgrading them to the point that they won't flee when freed (let's say 200 energy = 40 caps), so a guest essentially costs 190 caps.

So this leaves the player with the option to:
Go the cheap route: focus mostly on slaves, since they cost less and produce less
Go the expensive route: focus mostly on guests, since they will maximize per capita production, while also having a fewer of them due to cost
Go the mixed route: have both in some sort of ratio that will depend on how they interact.

If you go the "guests only manage slaves", then that basically railroads players into the 3rd option. I think it's better to give the player more options on how they want to handle their workforce.

Though from my experiences, since money basically has no upper limit to how much you can earn in a day, but energy is capped at 120 per day, eventually you will be able to essentially get 1-2 slaves per day, but you can only upgrade a slave to guest once every 2 days or so. So I suspect every player will always have some slaves, simply because you can't upgrade them fast enough. Though that might change if other ways of building stats are added.

There are few changes for next update already implemented for guests.
You'll be able to assign them to forest (wood) and scavening, so if you will want to get a specific items for crafting, you'll need guests and will have a reason to get them.

 

[ttyrke]

Concerning chance of miscarriage I think it would depend of the job, I understand a high chance of miscarriage while whoring but less when gardening ^^

Yep. Will write that down. I was thinking to reduce slave gain in the garden make it 50/50 that it will get a harvest at all. For guest it would stay the same. 1 food per 3 days.
Then in later, when I add "perks" for girls, if she get gardener perk as slave, she would always make that 1 food per 3 days and guests could make double of it.

 

[Strec]

If you go the "guests only manage slaves", then that basically railroads players into the 3rd option. I think it's better to give the player more options on how they want to handle their workforce.

After re-reading my previous post I recognize my answer was not clear, saying "without putting in basic work". In my mind a guest can work (without any production value) but can also be a manager, giving it more value than a slave which can not manage.

But in any case I can't agree to the fact that a guest would produce more than a slave. On the contrary as a slave have generally a lower maintenance cost (less food, less confert, ...) with the same production (with same physical stats), the production ratio is better.

It is the eternal debate love/fear due to the fact that ppl can't imagine what really happens in some hidden part of our "civilized" cultures. Go and ask the prostitutes in the streets to see if they accept that per love/pleasure or per fear/needs...

 

[Briheas]

After re-reading my previous post I recognize my answer was not clear, saying "without putting in basic work". In my mind a guest can work (without any production value) but can also be a manager, giving it more value than a slave which can not manage.

But in any case I can't agree to the fact that a guest would produce more than a slave. On the contrary as a slave have generally a lower maintenance cost (less food, less confert, ...) with the same production (with same physical stats), the production ratio is better.

It is the eternal debate love/fear due to the fact that ppl can't imagine what really happens in some hidden part of our "civilized" cultures. Go and ask the prostitutes in the streets to see if they accept that per love/pleasure or per fear/needs...

You're looking at it primarily from an in-game perspective. I'm looking at it primarily as game mechanics. We're not going to come to an agreement, because I don't care what the actual in-game justification of the mechanics are, just that the game mechanics are balanced. I don't care why, for example, we only need to eat once every 3 days, or why there's no hunger penalty from not eating every day. What I do care about is that food production is balanced around that 3 day eating schedule, and if, for example, we suddenly have to eat every day, then food production must be re-balanced around that. If we did have to eat every day, there's no in-game justification for why food production should suddenly triple, but I would argue that it should to balance against the tripled consumption.

Ultimately, guests can't be a manager and a worker because, in my proposal, I'm saying those are 2 separate jobs. And they're 2 separate jobs because not doing so makes a full guest build be not viable compared to a full slave or a mixed build. But if you'd like to share the formula you think that a guest should have on boosting slave production, then we can discuss that.

For the record, my formula is:
Slave: 2 food/3 days
Guest: 3 food/3 days
Overseer: Boosts up to 4 slaves per overseer, no food produced
Slave (boosted): 3 food/3 days

 

[Strec]

Ultimately, guests can't be a manager and a worker because, in my proposal, I'm saying those are 2 separate jobs

Never said "and". I agree that guest can be worker or manager and it's already a big advantage differenciating the two.

The game is in a very early stage and at this stage it must not be an excel sheet. Balancing a game must be done at the final stage of a development, when all features are determined and working, not so early.

For example, if you consider that there are workers giving some production and managers boosting this production it's just variables adjustement.

If at start a developper want to manage balancing when he code he will during all the dev stage run after this problem because any new feature added can break all the balance of others.

A game must alway be considered from an in-game perspective, and mainly from a "have I fun with that?" perspective, else it's no longer a game but a simulation.